Dynasty Dilemma: Watkins v Cooper

[doktor]

Who do you prefer, now and long term:

Sammy Watkins
v
Amari Cooper

[jeffster]

Even in the same draft as rookies I would take Watkins over Cooper. Now that we've seen Watkins have success as a rookie on a dismal offense where he was the WR1, he gets a pretty major boost even above that.

It will be a more interesting discussion this time next year, when we see how Cooper does as a rookie WR1 in his own dismal offense.

[bainer3]

lol rookie fever has everyone picking cooper...

[jeffster]

lol rookie fever has everyone picking cooper...

The poll could just be rewritten as "How bad is your rookie fever? Bad, or Not Bad?

[bainer3]

lol rookie fever has everyone picking cooper...

The poll could just be rewritten as "How bad is your rookie fever? Bad, or Not Bad?

haha yep...dont understand why people are so low on watkins lol hes gunna be a stud

[Bo Jackson]

I decided I would just take both just in case...

But Watkins situation does stink. He's probably not going to catch for 1500 yards under Rex and whichever QB is throwing...

[FantasyFreak]

lol rookie fever has everyone picking cooper...

Actually, Cooper's immense talent and favourable situation have them doing that.

[FantasyFreak]

lol rookie fever has everyone picking cooper...

The poll could just be rewritten as "How bad is your rookie fever? Bad, or Not Bad?

You do realize Cooper is every bit the prospect Watkins was coming out, right? You do realize Cooper's situation is better too, right? When it comes to an elite prospect like Cooper, vs a sophomore, it's not rookie fever. You really think Watkins puts up better numbers over his career? Friendly bet says he doesn't.

[TomBobAnderson]

lol rookie fever has everyone picking cooper...

The poll could just be rewritten as "How bad is your rookie fever? Bad, or Not Bad?

You do realize Cooper is every bit the prospect Watkins was coming out, right? You do realize Cooper's situation is better too, right? When it comes to an elite prospect like Cooper, vs a sophomore, it's not rookie fever. You really think Watkins puts up better numbers over his career? Friendly bet says he doesn't.

Sir, we can make a bet and I'll send you the check by mail in 15 years if I lose. People talk about situation but Cooper's situation isn't that much better. I would take Watkins over Cooper 11 times out of 10.

[FiremanEd]

I laugh at people saying the debate between these two is simply rookie fever. To be, that argument by itself is laughable and failing to view them as the players they both are and their skill sets. Fact is, both are elite WR prospects who were drafted #4 overall and who put up some big college production (with a dip as Sophmores). Watkins may be more physical, but he has many areas where Cooper exceeds him that will result in a long and productive career. To act like it isn't a debate is silly.

I can see it going either way, however I would be more comfortable with Cooper as a prospect coming out and his situation. While Sammy has had a productive rookie season, I'll view them as prospects at the same point they came out and simply say I feel safer with Cooper. It isn't rookie fever, it is looking at them objectively and making a decision. I see reason it could go Watkins, as he's clearly an elite prospect in his own right, but it's my decision based on what I've seen. I said it a long time ago pre-draft as well. Oakland vs Buffalo does not change that fact either.

Time will tell.

[jeffster]

I laugh at people saying the debate between these two is simply rookie fever. To be, that argument by itself is laughable and failing to view them as the players they both are and their skill sets. Fact is, both are elite WR prospects who were drafted #4 overall and who put up some big college production (with a dip as Sophmores). Watkins may be more physical, but he has many areas where Cooper exceeds him that will result in a long and productive career. To act like it isn't a debate is silly.

I can see it going either way, however I would be more comfortable with Cooper as a prospect coming out and his situation. While Sammy has had a productive rookie season, I'll view them as prospects at the same point they came out and simply say I feel safer with Cooper. It isn't rookie fever, it is looking at them objectively and making a decision. I see reason it could go Watkins, as he's clearly an elite prospect in his own right, but it's my decision based on what I've seen. I said it a long time ago pre-draft as well. Oakland vs Buffalo does not change that fact either.

Time will tell.

I find the part in bold basically sums up why this debate is so lopsided in favor of Watkins. You're literally saying you'll take Cooper over Watkins because you completely disregard his successful rookie season.

Highly regarded rookies bust all the time. Even top of the first round picks. No one thinks they can't do it at the time; that's why they were drafted so highly! As a Lions fan, I might just change my sig to "Welcome to DLF! Ask me about top WR talent busts!"

Right now we think Cooper can translate to the pros. We know Watkins can. So even if you watch their tape and think they're both equally stellar talents, Watkin's rookie season counts. Also, arguing that Oakland is a good situation is laughable to me, but carry on.

Really, I think valuing rookies solely on their potential, without factoring in the fact that rookies constantly fail to live up to expectations is a hallmark of rookie fever. Let's have this conversation next year, after Cooper manages a 1k yard rookie season on his crappy team.

[doktor]

I laugh at people saying the debate between these two is simply rookie fever. To be, that argument by itself is laughable and failing to view them as the players they both are and their skill sets. Fact is, both are elite WR prospects who were drafted #4 overall and who put up some big college production (with a dip as Sophmores). Watkins may be more physical, but he has many areas where Cooper exceeds him that will result in a long and productive career. To act like it isn't a debate is silly.

I can see it going either way, however I would be more comfortable with Cooper as a prospect coming out and his situation. While Sammy has had a productive rookie season, I'll view them as prospects at the same point they came out and simply say I feel safer with Cooper. It isn't rookie fever, it is looking at them objectively and making a decision. I see reason it could go Watkins, as he's clearly an elite prospect in his own right, but it's my decision based on what I've seen. I said it a long time ago pre-draft as well. Oakland vs Buffalo does not change that fact either.

Time will tell.

I find the part in bold basically sums up why this debate is so lopsided in favor of Watkins. You're literally saying you'll take Cooper over Watkins because you completely disregard his successful rookie season.

Highly regarded rookies bust all the time. Even top of the first round picks. No one thinks they can't do it at the time; that's why they were drafted so highly! As a Lions fan, I might just change my sig to "Welcome to DLF! Ask me about top WR talent busts!"

Right now we think Cooper can translate to the pros. We know Watkins can. So even if you watch their tape and think they're both equally stellar talents, Watkin's rookie season counts. Also, arguing that Oakland is a good situation is laughable to me, but carry on.

Really, I think valuing rookies solely on their potential, without factoring in the fact that rookies constantly fail to live up to expectations is a hallmark of rookie fever. Let's have this conversation next year, after Cooper manages a 1k yard rookie season on his crappy team.

This is my line of thinking as well.

I think another element going into the "devaluation of Sammy" is the fact that his rookie year was very, very good. He just missed 1k yard (missed by 18 if I recall). He had Lucy from Charlie Brown as his QB. There was no decent run game to take pressure off him. He was always under top corners and double-teams. Yet he still produced. As nicely as any of his drafters could have hoped for. But the problem with his very, very good rookie year was that it wasn't historical. He was outshined in this class by some truly generational rookie seasons - and I think people are a little stunted on him because of this (which, IMO - is just a big fat bucket of tomfoolery).

[TomBobAnderson]

I laugh at people saying the debate between these two is simply rookie fever. To be, that argument by itself is laughable and failing to view them as the players they both are and their skill sets. Fact is, both are elite WR prospects who were drafted #4 overall and who put up some big college production (with a dip as Sophmores). Watkins may be more physical, but he has many areas where Cooper exceeds him that will result in a long and productive career. To act like it isn't a debate is silly.

I can see it going either way, however I would be more comfortable with Cooper as a prospect coming out and his situation. While Sammy has had a productive rookie season, I'll view them as prospects at the same point they came out and simply say I feel safer with Cooper. It isn't rookie fever, it is looking at them objectively and making a decision. I see reason it could go Watkins, as he's clearly an elite prospect in his own right, but it's my decision based on what I've seen. I said it a long time ago pre-draft as well. Oakland vs Buffalo does not change that fact either.

Time will tell.

I find the part in bold basically sums up why this debate is so lopsided in favor of Watkins. You're literally saying you'll take Cooper over Watkins because you completely disregard his successful rookie season.

Highly regarded rookies bust all the time. Even top of the first round picks. No one thinks they can't do it at the time; that's why they were drafted so highly! As a Lions fan, I might just change my sig to "Welcome to DLF! Ask me about top WR talent busts!"

Right now we think Cooper can translate to the pros. We know Watkins can. So even if you watch their tape and think they're both equally stellar talents, Watkin's rookie season counts. Also, arguing that Oakland is a good situation is laughable to me, but carry on.

Really, I think valuing rookies solely on their potential, without factoring in the fact that rookies constantly fail to live up to expectations is a hallmark of rookie fever. Let's have this conversation next year, after Cooper manages a 1k yard rookie season on his crappy team.

Thank you jeffster

[bainer3]

I laugh at people saying the debate between these two is simply rookie fever. To be, that argument by itself is laughable and failing to view them as the players they both are and their skill sets. Fact is, both are elite WR prospects who were drafted #4 overall and who put up some big college production (with a dip as Sophmores). Watkins may be more physical, but he has many areas where Cooper exceeds him that will result in a long and productive career. To act like it isn't a debate is silly.

I can see it going either way, however I would be more comfortable with Cooper as a prospect coming out and his situation. While Sammy has had a productive rookie season, I'll view them as prospects at the same point they came out and simply say I feel safer with Cooper. It isn't rookie fever, it is looking at them objectively and making a decision. I see reason it could go Watkins, as he's clearly an elite prospect in his own right, but it's my decision based on what I've seen. I said it a long time ago pre-draft as well. Oakland vs Buffalo does not change that fact either.

Time will tell.

your argument is silly, how can someone base their evaluation on as if they came out at the same point? that in itself is flawed when one player has proved he can beat the best corners in the game while the other hasn't yet. Its rookie fever no matter which way you put it. You already guaranteeing cooper to have a long productive career seems pretty ambitious considering we haven't seen him play a snap in the nfl yet. You tell me how cooper is in such a "better" situation and i will show you a qb that had a 5.5 yards per attempt last year. I think cooper has the POTENTIAL to be an elite receiver, but I prefer to keep my stock in a receiver who has proved he can play through injury and produce under shotty QB play.

[FiremanEd]

I laugh at people saying the debate between these two is simply rookie fever. To be, that argument by itself is laughable and failing to view them as the players they both are and their skill sets. Fact is, both are elite WR prospects who were drafted #4 overall and who put up some big college production (with a dip as Sophmores). Watkins may be more physical, but he has many areas where Cooper exceeds him that will result in a long and productive career. To act like it isn't a debate is silly.

I can see it going either way, however I would be more comfortable with Cooper as a prospect coming out and his situation. While Sammy has had a productive rookie season, I'll view them as prospects at the same point they came out and simply say I feel safer with Cooper. It isn't rookie fever, it is looking at them objectively and making a decision. I see reason it could go Watkins, as he's clearly an elite prospect in his own right, but it's my decision based on what I've seen. I said it a long time ago pre-draft as well. Oakland vs Buffalo does not change that fact either.

Time will tell.

I find the part in bold basically sums up why this debate is so lopsided in favor of Watkins. You're literally saying you'll take Cooper over Watkins because you completely disregard his successful rookie season.

Highly regarded rookies bust all the time. Even top of the first round picks. No one thinks they can't do it at the time; that's why they were drafted so highly! As a Lions fan, I might just change my sig to "Welcome to DLF! Ask me about top WR talent busts!"

Right now we think Cooper can translate to the pros. We know Watkins can. So even if you watch their tape and think they're both equally stellar talents, Watkin's rookie season counts. Also, arguing that Oakland is a good situation is laughable to me, but carry on.

Really, I think valuing rookies solely on their potential, without factoring in the fact that rookies constantly fail to live up to expectations is a hallmark of rookie fever. Let's have this conversation next year, after Cooper manages a 1k yard rookie season on his crappy team.

Well, I didn't actually argue that Oakland is a 'good' situation, rather I indicated that I prefer it to Buffalo and I said factoring in Buffalo vs Oakland doesn't change anything in comparing the two enough to change my opinion. So I guess you can carry on laughing about something I didn't actually say in the manner in which you are believing I did. The reason that I view it as such (more favorable than Buffalo) are that they have a QB they can hopefully build around and aren't guaranteed to be a run-heavy/defensive style team. Rex will always be a defense and run team. Oakland is TBD, but should be in more must pass situations due to their worse defense. Buffalo's QB situation also hasn't gotten any better, and certainly isn't a lock to be better any time soon. We can say Sammy produced with what he had, but if anything, odds are it is going to be worse and we don't know for how long. Those differences can equate to better fantasy success, short and long term. That's my opinion, but perhaps you see it differently.

I'm not saying you should disregard Watkins productive rookie season either. I said viewing them as prospects coming out I would feel Cooper is the safer selection, as i feel he's better at the finer aspects of being a WR, which should convert successfully, and is still a high level athlete. This puts them at an apples to apples, as that's the best way to look at the players themselves. Comparing them coming out I would have taken Cooper since I felt he would be safer and less risky to bust. Absolutely if you factor it in today Watkins has the added benefit of having a productive rookie season and is no question the safer option as a result, but I feel Cooper can do what Sammy did and has a quality outlook beyond due to the reasons mentioned already. Who knows what the Buffalo QB situation will be going forward? What I do know is that is not likely to be better this year, so the 'he did this with that' is exactly what he's going to have to replicate for an unknown period of time, with a more conservative offensive approach most likely.

I should also add that my comments on 'laughable' and 'silly' are that you can't immediately dismiss this comparison as just 'rookie fever'. There is more to it than that and failing to look at it as something more discounts the player that Cooper actually is, and how the two compared as rookies coming out. I absolutely expect Cooper to put up 65 or more catches as a rookie, then suddenly he is right on pace at the same age Watkins is now, and I like his outlook better for the reasons i've already stated. It is NOT a lock, and I can understand any reason to prefer Watkins. It is absolutely close, as the 12/13 rank on DLF indicates, and in getting to that rank you have different people who rank them differently to get to that consensus. I'm not alone in my opinion and think that looking at them as prospects and players is the best way to make an objective decision. We don't know what Cooper will do, so he could do better or worse, but I'm going to project based on the player, understanding that there is risk, and go with what I think. If you disagree, that's fine, and i can't fault you. That said, to say 'player X did this as a rookie, and this guy has done nothing' is taking a simplified, albeit 'safer' view, and likely means you should be trading your draft picks in most instances.

I'm not a Sammy hater and I think he can be great. I just don't think people can simply laugh at people who pick Cooper because Sammy did a 65 catch season and Cooper hasn't had a chance. There is logic that can go into the projection. I don't think it is as one sided as the poll, and rookie fever could be some votes, but that isn't necessarily the case for all...

I will also acknowledge that I will go back and watch more tape on both to see if my opinion changes. Both were elite prospects, so it should be easy watching.