McFadden v. Mathews

[Water Buffalo]

DMC for me, he might be the best pure RB in football. And if you're going to use injuries to knock him then you should do the same with Mathews who is even worse. He hasn't played an entire season going back all the way to high school. My opinions on McFadden are well known in this forum so I'm going to spare everyone the diatribe.

I couldn't care less if you prefer DMC, but lets be factually accurate now at least, shall we?

DMC - Entering 5th season as a pro. Has missed 19 out of a possible 64 games, which is 29.7%

Mathews - Entering 3rd season as a pro. Has missed 6 out of a possible 32 games, which is 18.6%

One of these guys is also coming off of a serious lisfranc injury and the other is not. Going forward, since that's all we really care about anyway, I think it's safe to say that DMC has more injury concern due to recent injury history that could still affect him than Mathews does.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely knock Mathews for being an injury concern too. I'd knock both of them. I just think it's a bit silly to say Mathews is worse.

[MARKinMI]

DMC for me, he might be the best pure RB in football. And if you're going to use injuries to knock him then you should do the same with Mathews who is even worse. He hasn't played an entire season going back all the way to high school. My opinions on McFadden are well known in this forum so I'm going to spare everyone the diatribe.

I couldn't care less if you prefer DMC, but lets be factually accurate now at least, shall we?

DMC - Entering 5th season as a pro. Has missed 19 out of a possible 64 games, which is 29.7%

Mathews - Entering 3rd season as a pro. Has missed 6 out of a possible 32 games, which is 18.6%

One of these guys is also coming off of a serious lisfranc injury and the other is not. Going forward, since that's all we really care about anyway, I think it's safe to say that DMC has more injury concern due to recent injury history that could still affect him than Mathews does.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely knock Mathews for being an injury concern too. I'd knock both of them. I just think it's a bit silly to say Mathews is worse.

I was just answering the OP's question to which RB I'd rather have. I also spoke to the total time missed to injury in my next post and i was also factoring in the 7 or so games Mathews missed in his 3 years at fresno st. I couldn't find his high school injuries but i did read before his draft scouts mentioning his inability to play a full season on any level to that point. That always stuck with me. McFaddens "lis Franc" wasn't a true example of how bad the injury can be. In fact theres disputing reports of whether or not it was a lis franc injury and not just a severe sprain but that doesnt change the fact that rest healed it. No surgery was needed and he's 100% now.

[Pullo Vision]

Umm since Mathews has come into the league in 2010 he has missed 6 games, in that same time frame DMC has missed 12! And before that (2008 and 2009) DMC had missed 7 more. Thats 19 out of 64 games in 4 years.

DMC is clearly off or on- he's either going full bore or he's out because he's injured. Mathews plays but his injuries significantly affect his production. People expect RB1 numbers, but too often get RB2 at best.

In my league scoring, in total points for 2011 (even missing 2 games), Mathews was ranked 8th, so an RB1. Its standard, non PPR scoring so maybe there is a difference in our leagues scoring.

I wasn't referring to total season production, but the range of production any given Sunday. If you ignore the two injury-caused goose-eggs, his four lowest-scoring games last year in my PPR were- 5, 8, 10, 10. His 4 highest- 30, 25, 24, 20. Quite the range- those 8 scores, when combined with his two DNP-injured games, account for 58% of the 17 week season.

If that were a one off thing, I wouldn't be worried, but it was even worse in 2010. 4 DNP games, six games below 7 points, and one game of 34.

That 2-year record of extreme highs and terrible lows is what led me to call him an RB2. Any given day, he may produce RB1 numbers, or he may barely give you RB2 numbers. To me, he's the RB version of VJax, who similarly can carry you one week and do nothing the next. The only difference is that Mathews adds the injury problem, decreasing his effectiveness when he does play and scratching him from games when he's too hurt.

As a comparison, if one excludes the game he got injured in last year, DMC had only one game below 16 points. The full per-game production- 8, 16, 16, 16, 31, 32.

In 2010, he was similarly impressive. If one excludes the DNP games, he had only 1 game out of 13 with less than 11 points. The combined 2010+2011 production means he had 2 of 19 games with less than 11 points. What was even better was the consistency. In 2010, the majority of his games were between 13 and 18, with the two outliers being 5 (@Pit) and two 40+ games.

Or, looked at another way- 11 of his 19 games from 2010 and 2011 were between 11 and 19. The outliers were a 1 (left due to injury) 5, an 8, a 31, 32, 41 and 45. Not only has he been consistently good when he's played a full game, but his bad games have been close to ok while his great games have been amazing.

The main (only?) valid knock on DMC is the injury issue. But, this issue can be compensated for by building productive RB depth. Which is no problem for me, since that's what I try to do anyway. After all, all RBs get injured.

I wasn't a fan of Mathews, since the grand majority of his college production came in his last year. I don't believe he's particularly talented and believe a great portion of his perceived values derives from his situation. With Tolbert gone, people are going ga-ga.

(note- all references to per-game production was in PPR leagues)

[Biggcmo]

I dont see it as a close comparison. I think the majority can agree that if Healthy DMC is arguably one of the best backs in the league. mathews is pretty good, but i dont see one of the best backs in the league when i see him play.

Mcfadden all day

[joeday]

I dont see it as a close comparison. I think the majority can agree that if Healthy DMC is arguably one of the best backs in the league. mathews is pretty good, but i dont see one of the best backs in the league when i see him play.

Mcfadden all day

Whats this? I've never heard of this? lol

[bizzyboi]

McFadden by a hair. I just feel like he has more innate talent. Like Dickerson, in that he is blazing fast for his size. I've seen him have healthy seasons before and now he is the lone wolf in the backfield. I'd put my money on DMC.

[MARKinMI]

I wasn't referring to total season production, but the range of production any given Sunday. If you ignore the two injury-caused goose-eggs, his four lowest-scoring games last year in my PPR were- 5, 8, 10, 10. His 4 highest- 30, 25, 24, 20. Quite the range- those 8 scores, when combined with his two DNP-injured games, account for 58% of the 17 week season.

If that were a one off thing, I wouldn't be worried, but it was even worse in 2010. 4 DNP games, six games below 7 points, and one game of 34.

That 2-year record of extreme highs and terrible lows is what led me to call him an RB2. Any given day, he may produce RB1 numbers, or he may barely give you RB2 numbers. To me, he's the RB version of VJax, who similarly can carry you one week and do nothing the next. The only difference is that Mathews adds the injury problem, decreasing his effectiveness when he does play and scratching him from games when he's too hurt.

As a comparison, if one excludes the game he got injured in last year, DMC had only one game below 16 points. The full per-game production- 8, 16, 16, 16, 31, 32.

In 2010, he was similarly impressive. If one excludes the DNP games, he had only 1 game out of 13 with less than 11 points. The combined 2010+2011 production means he had 2 of 19 games with less than 11 points. What was even better was the consistency. In 2010, the majority of his games were between 13 and 18, with the two outliers being 5 (@Pit) and two 40+ games.

Or, looked at another way- 11 of his 19 games from 2010 and 2011 were between 11 and 19. The outliers were a 1 (left due to injury) 5, an 8, a 31, 32, 41 and 45. Not only has he been consistently good when he's played a full game, but his bad games have been close to ok while his great games have been amazing.

The main (only?) valid knock on DMC is the injury issue. But, this issue can be compensated for by building productive RB depth. Which is no problem for me, since that's what I try to do anyway. After all, all RBs get injured.

I wasn't a fan of Mathews, since the grand majority of his college production came in his last year. I don't believe he's particularly talented and believe a great portion of his perceived values derives from his situation. With Tolbert gone, people are going ga-ga.

(note- all references to per-game production was in PPR leagues)

Thats a nice post I completely agree.

[bigblue]

DMC is clearly off or on- he's either going full bore or he's out because he's injured. Mathews plays but his injuries significantly affect his production. People expect RB1 numbers, but too often get RB2 at best.

In my league scoring, in total points for 2011 (even missing 2 games), Mathews was ranked 8th, so an RB1. Its standard, non PPR scoring so maybe there is a difference in our leagues scoring.

I wasn't referring to total season production, but the range of production any given Sunday. If you ignore the two injury-caused goose-eggs, his four lowest-scoring games last year in my PPR were- 5, 8, 10, 10. His 4 highest- 30, 25, 24, 20. Quite the range- those 8 scores, when combined with his two DNP-injured games, account for 58% of the 17 week season.

If that were a one off thing, I wouldn't be worried, but it was even worse in 2010. 4 DNP games, six games below 7 points, and one game of 34.

That 2-year record of extreme highs and terrible lows is what led me to call him an RB2. Any given day, he may produce RB1 numbers, or he may barely give you RB2 numbers. To me, he's the RB version of VJax, who similarly can carry you one week and do nothing the next. The only difference is that Mathews adds the injury problem, decreasing his effectiveness when he does play and scratching him from games when he's too hurt.

As a comparison, if one excludes the game he got injured in last year, DMC had only one game below 16 points. The full per-game production- 8, 16, 16, 16, 31, 32.

In 2010, he was similarly impressive. If one excludes the DNP games, he had only 1 game out of 13 with less than 11 points. The combined 2010+2011 production means he had 2 of 19 games with less than 11 points. What was even better was the consistency. In 2010, the majority of his games were between 13 and 18, with the two outliers being 5 (@Pit) and two 40+ games.

Or, looked at another way- 11 of his 19 games from 2010 and 2011 were between 11 and 19. The outliers were a 1 (left due to injury) 5, an 8, a 31, 32, 41 and 45. Not only has he been consistently good when he's played a full game, but his bad games have been close to ok while his great games have been amazing.

The main (only?) valid knock on DMC is the injury issue. But, this issue can be compensated for by building productive RB depth. Which is no problem for me, since that's what I try to do anyway. After all, all RBs get injured.

I wasn't a fan of Mathews, since the grand majority of his college production came in his last year. I don't believe he's particularly talented and believe a great portion of his perceived values derives from his situation. With Tolbert gone, people are going ga-ga.

(note- all references to per-game production was in PPR leagues)

If I remember correctly, Norv Turner tended to go with the hot hand. I bet the low scoring games that Mathews had were countered with Tolbert having high scoring games. I expect Mathews to become a lot more consistent with Tolbert out of the picture

[MR ROURKE]

I think Mathews fans are going to get a reality check in the draft, because I fully expect San Diego to draft a pretty good RB. That RB would likely be someone they think highly of and think is good enough to possibly carry the load, since Mathews hasn't proven to be a guy who holds up over the season. They should be replacing Tolbert and that RB could be even better then Tolbert.

[joeday]

I think Mathews fans are going to get a reality check in the draft, because I fully expect San Diego to draft a pretty good RB. That RB would likely be someone they think highly of and think is good enough to possibly carry the load, since Mathews hasn't proven to be a guy who holds up over the season. They should be replacing Tolbert and that RB could be even better then Tolbert.

But isnt DMC even worse when it comes to that?

[MR ROURKE]

I think Mathews fans are going to get a reality check in the draft, because I fully expect San Diego to draft a pretty good RB. That RB would likely be someone they think highly of and think is good enough to possibly carry the load, since Mathews hasn't proven to be a guy who holds up over the season. They should be replacing Tolbert and that RB could be even better then Tolbert.

But isnt DMC even worse when it comes to that?

Neither can stay healthy, so the injury part wasn't the point. My point was that the Chargers only signed Le'Ron McClain and I don't think he's isn't good enough to take over Tolberts role or carry the load if/when Mathews gets injured. L.McClain shouldn't be a teams #2 RB. So I expect them to possibly draft a decent RB to put into the mix with Mathews. That would effect Mathews's value and the current perception out there for Mathews.

[joeday]

I think Mathews fans are going to get a reality check in the draft, because I fully expect San Diego to draft a pretty good RB. That RB would likely be someone they think highly of and think is good enough to possibly carry the load, since Mathews hasn't proven to be a guy who holds up over the season. They should be replacing Tolbert and that RB could be even better then Tolbert.

But isnt DMC even worse when it comes to that?

Neither can stay healthy, so the injury part wasn't the point. My point was that the Chargers only signed Le'Ron McClain and I don't think he's isn't good enough to take over Tolberts role or carry the load if/when Mathews gets injured. L.McClain shouldn't be a teams #2 RB. So I expect them to possibly draft a decent RB to put into the mix with Mathews. That would effect Mathews's value and the current perception out there for Mathews.

you think Taiwan is, or do they bring in a FA?

[MR ROURKE]

you think Taiwan is, or do they bring in a FA?

I think Goodson is a very good back and under valued. Taiwan is basically a cheap budget version of DMC, but no where near the talent of DMC. I'm not a huge fan of T.Jones, but I do really like the Goodson pickup.

[MARKinMI]

you think Taiwan is, or do they bring in a FA?

I think Goodson is a very good back and under valued. Taiwan is basically a cheap budget version of DMC, but no where near the talent of DMC. I'm not a huge fan of T.Jones, but I do really like the Goodson pickup.

Yeah, people like to knock DMC for his flukey injuries but as long as you cover your backside with his handcuff then you usually see good production if he misses time. I'm in agreement with Rourke that Goodson has a ton of upside if DMC goes down. I know every owner's different but I'll take the top 5 production when DMC is in there and roll with his handcuff as a likely RB2 when he isnt. As long as you set up your roster accordingly, its not this huge gamble that some say it is. We're to the point where you can almost expect any RB to nicked up at some point. They're the only offensive position that doesn't get protected by rules and they take the most punishment.