WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

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Jigga94
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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Jigga94 » Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:30 am

Valhalla wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:26 pm Can anyone name a stud wr in the last 25 years that was over 6’2.5” that was outside of this BMI range? Thinner frame than AJ Green? Yes, Moss. He was a freak. Am I missing other players?
Seems to me that this is somewhat comprehensive of the very good taller wrs…and 6’4 205 is just quite a bit slimmer built than anyone but Moss. Would I draft Marvin 1? Yep. Does this make me worry some whereas before I had no doubt? Yeah it does honestly.
Notable WR drafted in the past 4 years, 6'3"+ with <26.5 BMI
Higgins - 26.3
Nico - 26.2
London - 26.2
Watson - 25.3
Pickens - 25.0

Another WR for this year to watch for you is Keon Coleman. Also listed at 6'4" 215, same as Nico/London

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Valhalla » Sun Feb 25, 2024 1:30 pm

Jigga94 wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:30 am
Valhalla wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:26 pm Can anyone name a stud wr in the last 25 years that was over 6’2.5” that was outside of this BMI range? Thinner frame than AJ Green? Yes, Moss. He was a freak. Am I missing other players?
Seems to me that this is somewhat comprehensive of the very good taller wrs…and 6’4 205 is just quite a bit slimmer built than anyone but Moss. Would I draft Marvin 1? Yep. Does this make me worry some whereas before I had no doubt? Yeah it does honestly.
Notable WR drafted in the past 4 years, 6'3"+ with <26.5 BMI
Higgins - 26.3
Nico - 26.2
London - 26.2
Watson - 25.3
Pickens - 25.0

Another WR for this year to watch for you is Keon Coleman. Also listed at 6'4" 215, same as Nico/London
Those young players have a chance to make a name for themselves and disprove this, sure.

I suppose what I was asking was…a guy who was just a true contributor to a winner in multiple years. The super studs that fall in this height range.

Another guy I forgot is Demaryius Thomas. And Jordy Nelson. Also Josh Gordon…kinda…if not for other problems.
The sample includes pretty much every uber stud that was taller in the last 25 years…and the outlier on the skinny side is AJ Green.

We’re not hoping/expecting Marvin to be the next Higgins/Nico/London/Watson/Pickens. We’re expecting the next uber stud. And no, I’m not saying that those five can’t become proven year to year studs. I’m saying, I’d much rather Marvin grouped in with Demaryius type than Pickens type.

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Valhalla » Sun Feb 25, 2024 1:34 pm

I’m also not saying BMI is all there is to taller wrs. My favorite wr is Moss!! I’m just saying, it seems significant to me, something to take note of. Pretty much EVERY stud of this height being at least a certain size (other than Moss) in this century is worth noting.

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:30 pm

I've been trying to tell this to ppl for years, nobody wants to listen. Good luck.

Per PlayerProfiler. I highlighted interesting names on the taller end. Several are probably shorter than your height requirement. You'd have to double check. And I may have missed some names to highlight as well. I wasn't sure which bmi cutoff you were using, I saw Jigga mentioned 26.5 so i just used that.

Andy Cruse 26.5
Braxton Miller 26.5
Bryan Edwards 26.5
Bryce Treggs 26.5
Colton Dowell 26.5
Darryl Surgent 26.5
DaVaris Daniels 26.5
Dazz Newsome 26.5
Dennis Parks 26.5
Derrick Johnson 26.5
Devin Hester 26.5
Dontay Demus 26.5
Easop Winston 26.5
Eddie Royal 26.5
Jaelon Darden 26.5
James Wright 26.5
Johnathan Lloyd 26.5
Jon Duhart 26.5
Jordan Matthews 26.5
Josh Cooper 26.5
Kahlil Lewis 26.5
KeeSean Johnson 26.5
Kenny Cook 26.5
Kenny Golladay 26.5
Michael Thomas 26.5
Mike Williams 26.5
Montay Crockett 26.5
Phillip Dorsett 26.5
Quartney Davis 26.5
Trindon Holliday 26.5
Tyreek Hill 26.5
Vincent Brown 26.5
Aldrick Robinson 26.4
Alex Erickson 26.4
Andre Debose 26.4
Austin Franklin 26.4
Bo Melton 26.4
Braylon Edwards 26.4
Brenton Bersin 26.4
Brody Oliver 26.4
Cade Johnson 26.4
Darius Johnson 26.4
David Sills 26.4
Donteea Dye 26.4
Dredrick Snelson 26.4
Erik Ezukanma 26.4
Felton Davis 26.4
Freddie Martino 26.4
Gabe Marks 26.4
Hunter Renfrow 26.4
Isaiah Weston 26.4
Jalen Brooks 26.4
Jeremy Ebert 26.4
Joe Horn 26.4
John Metchie 26.4
Josh Lenz 26.4
Josh Magee 26.4
Keenan Allen 26.4
Kendall Hinton 26.4
Keshawn Martin 26.4
Markus Wheaton 26.4
Mike Thomas 26.4
Quron Pratt 26.4
Reggie Begelton 26.4
Rico Gafford 26.4
Seth Williams 26.4
Seyi Ajirotutu 26.4
Slade Bolden 26.4
Stacy Coley 26.4
Stefon Diggs 26.4
Terrell Jana 26.4
Tyler Johnson 26.4
Tyre Brady 26.4
Walter Powell 26.4
Whop Philyor 26.4
Braylon Sanders 26.3
Britain Covey 26.3
Colby Pearson 26.3
Damian Williams 26.3
Davon Grayson 26.3
Denarius Moore 26.3
Devin Fuller 26.3
DeVontres Dukes 26.3
Diontae Johnson 26.3
Diontae Spencer 26.3
Dontre Wilson 26.3
Elijah Moore 26.3
Frank Darby 26.3
Fred Brown 26.3
Jake Bobo 26.3
Jalen Greene 26.3
Jaron Brown 26.3
John Ursua 26.3
Jordan Leslie 26.3
Ka'Raun White 26.3
Kendric Pryor 26.3
Kenny Stills 26.3
Michael Walker 26.3
Mitch Mathews 26.3
Rashard Davis 26.3
Rashawn Scott 26.3
Rasheed Bailey 26.3
Riley Ridley 26.3
Robert Wheelwright 26.3
Steven Dunbar 26.3
Tee Higgins 26.3
Terrace Marshall 26.3
Aaron Dobson 26.2
Aaron Fuller 26.2
Anthony Gonzalez 26.2
Bra'lon Cherry 26.2
Bryce Bobo 26.2
Colin Lockett 26.2
Cooper Kupp 26.2
Corey Fuller 26.2
Danario Alexander 26.2
David Durden 26.2
Delane Hart-Johnson 26.2
Eric Rogers 26.2
Henry Ruggs 26.2
Isaac Whitney 26.2
Jaray Jenkins 26.2
Javon Walker 26.2
John Ross 26.2
Jon’Vea Johnson 26.2
Kadron Boone 26.2
Limas Sweed 26.2
Marcus Easley 26.2
Michael Rector 26.2
Nick Toon 26.2
Nico Collins 26.2
Nigel King 26.2
Quian Williams 26.2
Raleigh Webb 26.2
Richard Mullaney 26.2
River Cracraft 26.2
Romeo Doubs 26.2
Ross Apo 26.2
Saalim Hakim 26.2
Stephen Hill 26.2
Tre'Shaun Harrison 26.2
Armon Binns 26.1
Austin Pettis 26.1
Caleb Scott 26.1
Cayleb Jones 26.1
Christion Jones 26.1
Corey Davis 26.1
Corey Willis 26.1
Danny Kittner 26.1
Dennis Houston 26.1
DeVante Parker 26.1
Jakobi Meyers 26.1
Janarion Grant 26.1
Jonathan Krause 26.1
Justin Brown 26.1
Kassim Osgood 26.1
Kenny Lawler 26.1
Kevin Ogletree 26.1
Matt Hazel 26.1
Ramaud Chiaokhlao-Bowman 26.1
Thomas Sperbeck 26.1
Tommy Streeter 26.1
Tony Brown 26.1
Tyler Lockett 26.1
Ventell Bryant 26.1
Xavier Hutchinson 26.1
A.J. Jenkins 26
Alec Pierce 26
Austin Willis 26
Brandon Coleman 26
Chris Osei-Kusi 26
Corey Washington 26
Damoun Patterson 26
Daniel Arias 26
Deon Long 26
Dezmin Lewis 26
Dillon Mitchell 26
Freddie Swain 26
Issac Blakeney 26
Jacob Harris 26
Jamal Custis 26
Jared Wayne 26
Josh Malone 26
Keke Coutee 26
Kenny Bell 26
Marqise Lee 26
Nsimba Webster 26
Quentin Johnston :wall: :wall: :wall: 26
Rakim Jarrett 26
Rueben Randle 26
Seantavius Jones 26
Trey Palmer 26
Trishton Jackson 26
Tyler Boyd 26
Brandon Reilly 25.9
Brittan Golden 25.9
C.J. Worton 25.9
Chad Hansen 25.9
Charles Rogers 25.9
DaMarkus Lodge 25.9
Darrius Shepherd 25.9
Denzel Mims 25.9
Deon Cain 25.9
Deontez Alexander 25.9
Dez Fitzpatrick 25.9
Drake London 25.9
Duece Watts 25.9
Greg Ward 25.9
Isaiah Zuber 25.9
J'Mon Moore 25.9
Jalen Nailor 25.9
Jeff Smith 25.9
Josh Doctson 25.9
Malik Turner 25.9
Marlon Brown 25.9
Paul McRoberts 25.9
Ramses Barden 25.9
Rashard Higgins 25.9
Ronnie Bell 25.9
Shemar Bridges 25.9
Steve Johnson 25.9
Tamorrion Terry 25.9
Terren Encalade 25.9
Titus Davis 25.9
Alex Wesley 25.8
Andre Wilson 25.8
Bernard Reedy 25.8
Bryan Walters 25.8
Calvin Austin 25.8
Cam Sims 25.8
Cedric Byrd 25.8
Chris Matthews 25.8
Clyde Gates 25.8
D.J. Montgomery 25.8
Danny Coale 25.8
David Reed 25.8
Dee Anderson 25.8
Demetris Robertson 25.8
DeMichael Harris 25.8
Drew Morgan 25.8
Eli Rogers 25.8
Emanuel Hall 25.8
Eric Page 25.8
Grant DuBose 25.8
Grant Perry 25.8
Jaleel Scott 25.8
Jarius Wright 25.8
Marcus Beaurem 25.8
Marquez Stevenson 25.8
Marquis Bundy 25.8
Maurice Alexander 25.8
Patrick Edwards 25.8
Rashod Bateman 25.8
Tony Stevens 25.8
Tyler Scott 25.8
Wendall Williams 25.8
Zay Jones 25.8
A.J. Green 25.7
Andre Johnson 25.7
Branden Mack 25.7
Brandon Tate 25.7
C.J. Saunders 25.7
Caleb Holley 25.7
Carlton Agudosi 25.7
Collin Johnson 25.7
Daewood Davis 25.7
Damian Copeland 25.7
Damon Hazelton 25.7
De'Anthony Thomas 25.7
DeAndre Reaves 25.7
Isaiah McKoy 25.7
Jaivon Heiligh 25.7
Jared Abbrederis 25.7
Jared Bernhardt 25.7
Jaxon Shipley 25.7
Jerry Rice 25.7
John Brown 25.7
Josh Johnson 25.7
Kevin Austin 25.7
Levi Norwood 25.7
Louis Murphy 25.7
Martavis Bryant 25.7
Marvin Jones 25.7
Mike Harley 25.7
Percy Harvin 25.7
Preston Williams 25.7
R.J. Sneed 25.7
Russell Shepard 25.7
Scott Miller 25.7
Shaquan Davis 25.7
Tanner McEvoy 25.7
Terry Godwin 25.7
Van Jefferson 25.7
Andrei Iosivas 25.6
Chris Lacy 25.6
Cody Core 25.6
Courtney Roby 25.6
David Richards 25.6
Dontrelle Inman 25.6
Isaiah Ford 25.6
Isaiah Hodgins 25.6
Jadakis Bonds 25.6
Jalen Tolbert 25.6
Jamaal Jones 25.6
Justyn Ross 25.6
Keelan Cole 25.6
Lil'Jordan Humphrey 25.6
Marcell Ateman 25.6
Myron Mitchell 25.6
Randy Moss 25.6
Tavarres King 25.6
Travis Rudolph 25.6
Trevor Harman 25.6
Adam Krumholz 25.5
Anthony Dable 25.5
Antoine Green 25.5
Brian Hartline 25.5
Brian Tyms 25.5
Chad Beebe 25.5
Damion Willis 25.5
Darren Carrington 25.5
Dax Milne 25.5
Derek Wright 25.5
Devin Gray 25.5
Devonte Boyd 25.5
Donnie Avery 25.5
Donte Foster 25.5
Gunner Olszewski 25.5
J.D. Spielman 25.5
Jabar Gaffney 25.5
Jehu Chesson 25.5
Jerry Jeudy 25.5
Josh Stewart 25.5
JuanCarlos Santana 25.5
Kris Durham 25.5
Malik Henry 25.5
Marvin Mims 25.5
Shedrick Jackson 25.5
T.J. Jones 25.5
Terrell Bynum 25.5
Tyler Hudson 25.5
Tyrell Williams 25.5
Tyron Johnson 25.5
Yo'Heinz Tyler 25.5
Andre Patton 25.4
CeeDee Lamb 25.4
Damonte Coxie 25.4
David Nelson 25.4
Dom Williams 25.4
Equanimeous St. Brown 25.4
Harry Douglas 25.4
Isaiah Coulter 25.4
Jason Brownlee 25.4
Jaz Reynolds 25.4
Jeff Badet 25.4
Jeremiah Haydel 25.4
Justin Veltung 25.4
Kaylon Geiger 25.4
KD Cannon 25.4
Kevin Norwood 25.4
Khadarel Hodge 25.4
Levern Jacobs 25.4
Matt Eaton 25.4
Rashad Greene 25.4
Romell Guerrier 25.4
Sean Modster 25.4
Taylor Gabriel 25.4
Terry Wright 25.4
Tre Nixon 25.4
Trinity Benson 25.4
Chad OchoCinco 25.3
Chris Summers 25.3
Christian Watson 25.3
Dallas Daniels 25.3
Darnell Mooney 25.3
Domenik Hixon 25.3
Josh Crockett 25.3
Julian Talley 25.3
Kendrick Rogers 25.3
Raphael Leonard 25.3
Shane Wynn 25.3
Tim Patrick 25.3
Trevion Thompson 25.3
Vyncint Smith 25.3
Warren Jackson 25.3
Anthony Schwartz 25.2
Austin Trammell 25.2
Chris Finke 25.2
Damion Ratley 25.2
Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi 25.2
Deontay Burnett 25.2
Derrick Willies 25.2
Jahan Dotson 25.2
James Quick 25.2
Jawill Davis 25.2
Josh Downs 25.2
Josh Harper 25.2
K.J. Brent 25.2
Keith Corbin 25.2
Kyle Philips 25.2
Malachi Dupre 25.2
Malik Knowles 25.2
Mekale McKay 25.2
Rico Bussey 25.2
Robert Foster 25.2
Russell Gage 25.2
Ryan Grant 25.2
Samori Toure 25.2
Seth Roberts 25.2
Sidney Rice 25.2
Thomas Ives 25.2
Will Fuller 25.2
Alonzo Russell 25.1
Andre Baccellia 25.1
Antoine Wesley 25.1
Austin Duke 25.1
Chester Rogers 25.1
Chris Boyd 25.1
Chris Olave 25.1
Dane Sanzenbacher 25.1
Daniel Braverman 25.1
Darius Slayton 25.1
Derius Davis 25.1
DeSean Jackson 25.1
Emmanuel Sanders 25.1
J.J. Jones 25.1
Jeff Maehl 25.1
Jeff Thomas 25.1
Johnny Holton 25.1
Jordan Norwood 25.1
Kenbrell Thompkins 25.1
Lamaar Thomas 25.1
Mario Manningham 25.1
Marquez Valdes-Scantling 25.1
Michael Clark 25.1
Quez Watkins 25.1
Shawn Poindexter 25.1
Stephen Guidry 25.1
T.J. Graham 25.1
Tank Dell 25.1
Ted Ginn 25.1
Tim White 25.1
Travis Benjamin 25.1
Tyson Morris 25.1
Vernon Johnson 25.1
Adam Thielen 25
Brandon Johnson 25
Cameron Meredith 25
Dai'Jean Dixon 25
Dan Chisena 25
Devon Williams 25
Dorren Miller 25
Douglas McNeil 25
Duron Carter 25
Garrett Wilson 25
George Pickens 25
Jaydon Mickens 25
Joe J. Horn 25
Joe Morgan 25
Landon Jones 25
Marcus Kemp 25
Maurice Harris 25
Rod Streater 25
Shawn Bane 25
Calvin Ridley 24.9
Charles Holland 24.9
Chris Brown 24.9
DJ Chark 24.9
Rodney Adams 24.9
Tajae Sharpe 24.9
Brycen Tremayne 24.8
Corey Brown 24.8
Corey Smith 24.8
Dahu Green 24.8
Damond Powell 24.8
Derel Walker 24.8
Jared Green 24.8
Jayshon Jackson 24.8
KJ Hamler 24.8
Sam James 24.8
T.J. Rahming 24.8
Torrence Allen 24.8
Tre Walker 24.8
Trevor Davis 24.8
Devin Street 24.7
Dres Anderson 24.7
Jake Kumerow 24.7
Kavontae Turpin 24.7
Marcus Harris 24.7
Myles White 24.7
Andre Lindsay 24.6
Ashley Lelie 24.6
Ja-Mes Logan 24.6
Quincy Adeboyejo 24.6
Allenzae Staggers 24.5
Blake Proehl 24.5
Dante Pettis 24.5
Gavin Lutman 24.5
Geronimo Allison 24.5
Greg Hardin 24.5
Jaquarii Roberson 24.5
Malachi Carter 24.5
Marquise Brown 24.5
Marvin Harrison 24.5
A.T. Perry 24.4
Bryant Mitchell 24.4
Charlie Jones 24.4
Chris Harper 24.4
Darvin Kidsy 24.4
Dyami Brown 24.4
Griff Whalen 24.4
Jalen McCleskey 24.4
Jalen Saunders 24.4
Jamari Staples 24.4
Keyion Dixon 24.4
Makai Polk 24.4
Max McCaffrey 24.4
Michael Preston 24.4
Noel Grigsby 24.4
Osirus Mitchell 24.4
Rashid Shaheed 24.4
Rico Richardson 24.4
Tony Pierson 24.4
Chandler Jones 24.3
Christian Blake 24.3
Frankie Hammond 24.3
Jeremy Johnson 24.3
Jerome Simpson 24.3
John Hightower 24.3
Kenny Shaw 24.3
Matt Landers 24.3
Tre Turner 24.3
Darius Jennings 24.2
Garrett Johnson 24.2
Jermaine Jones 24.2
Jordan Taylor 24.2
Josh Reynolds 24.2
Michael Jefferson 24.2
Terrence Toliver 24.2
Binjimen Victor 24.1
Cedrick Wilson 24.1
Chuck Jacobs 24.1
Dede Westbrook 24.1
Javone Lawson 24.1
Jordan Addison 24.1
Nate Washington 24.1
T.J. Vasher 24.1
Charleston Rambo 24
Jalen Cropper 24
Jamire Jordan 24
Micah Hatfield 24
C.J. Board 23.9
Damiere Byrd 23.9
Ihmir Smith-Marsette 23.9
Jalin Hyatt 23.9
Justin Hunter 23.9
Kalif Raymond 23.9
Teo Redding 23.9
Tyler Rutenbeck 23.9
Chris Thompson 23.8
Chosen Robbie Anderson 23.7
Damion Jeanpiere 23.7
Jameson Williams 23.7
L'Damian Washington 23.7
Paul Richardson 23.7
Rashad Ross 23.7
Deven Thompkins 23.6
Mac Hippenhammer 23.6
Skye Dawson 23.6
Tyler Vaughns 23.6
JoJo Natson 23.5
Lee Doss 23.5
Tyquan Thornton 23.5
Lucky Whitehead 23.4
Tevin Reese 23.4
DeMario Bennett 23.2
Devonta Smith 23.1
Tiquan Underwood 23.1
D.J. Matthews 23
Tutu Atwell 22.9
Alexander Hollins 22.4
J.J. Nelson 22.4
Marquess Wilson 22.4
Rudy Rudolph 22.4
Trea Shropshire 22.4
Jovon Durante 22.3
Reggie Davis 21.4
Last edited by Dynasty DeLorean on Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:40 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 6:23 pm

I looked into this and weight-adjusted 40 actually matters quite a bit for "taller" receivers, or receivers 6'2" and taller. If you look back, most (not all, but most) receivers of this height had a pretty good weight-adjusted 40, among other things. For the smaller receivers, the 40 times are a lot less sticky. Tee Higgins has done well for himself so far, however for my "study" I looked at players with more of a track record.
Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:23 pm

WRs
40 time - Similar to the RB's, the bare-bones 40 time you want to see is something faster than a 4.65. It's not ideal but you can work with something like a 4.63. Ideally, you want something in the 4.5x's or better. I put stock into the weight-adjusted 40 for the taller WR's.

Weight - If I have a tall WR (6'2" [or, maybe more importantly 6'3"] or taller) I don't want them to be a beanpole. I'm looking for a weight of 210 or better for those types of WR's. For WR's of the shorter variety, the ideal is around 190+. But 180-195 can be fine as well. Under 180 and I'm kind of staying away.

Height - I'd say for all-around receivers, you want 5'9" or taller. Probably could get away with shorter if it's just a slot guy or something but 5'8" or shorter is getting spooky.

Leaping - So for Wr's I do value the leaping a bit because that's part of playing the position. For the shorter wr's I'm not too concerned because it's usually not their game to be leaping for contested catches. I do put a lot of emphasis on vert for the taller WR's though. Ideally want 36"+ vert, and a good broad jump for them is also ideal. Good vert but bad broad jump increases the risk. And yes, i've spent way too much time looking at this stuff.

Agility - Not overly concerned but good agility is viewed as a plus. I guess if I'm being honest, you want to see at least about average agility for the "smaller" wrs. Diggs was below average but most elite wr's are average or above I think. "Slow" receivers such as Kupp or ARSB both had above average agility. Davante Adams below average 40 but above average agility. For the taller WR's, the agility is less important because they win in different ways. Remember DK3cone. It's important to remember that even within a position, not all combine numbers are relevant in the same way among all the players. A bad 3cone for one player could be meaningful but for another it might not be meaningful at all. Also, I'm not sure on this but I don't know how many chances the players have at running the agility drills. I think it's only 1, so if they slip or mess up at all they might get a time that isn't reflective of their abilities. Whereas with the 40 they have 2 chances to run it, so if they mess up on one they still have another chance. In theory the players would get a chance to better their time at a pro day if they do mess up at the combine, but people typically only remember the combine time.

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:50 pm

... but i find a stark difference between rounds 2 and 3 when it comes to the bigger/taller WRs. The only good tall WR drafted in round 3 in recent years was Golladay back in 2017. You can't find another WR similar to that until you get to Keenan Allen back in 2013, and before that Eric Decker in 2010. So are we really grouping Pittman in with a slew of round 3 players that historically almost never pan out? 3 in the last 10 years? That just doesn't make sense to me.

edit: Kupp too

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:43 pm My premise is that Short and tall wrs are not the same, and what works for one group does not necessarily work for the other.

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Bronco Billy » Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:15 am

That’s a really nice amalgam post DD. Well done.

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby yinzername » Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:52 am

yinzername wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:52 pm This is a DD thread now
SF - PPR - 12t - start10
Notable Assets in Rebuild
QB: Mahomes - Levis - Rudolph
RB: K Mitchell - J McLaughlin - C Rodriguez - Z Evans
WR: AJB - M Pittman- R Doubs - E Moore - Shaheed - C Tillman- A Iosivas
TE: MAndrews - Kraft
'24: 1.1, 1.7, 2.1, 2.6, 2.10, 3.1, 3.10
‘25: 1 1st, 2 2nds, 2 3rds

2nd year DFF
SF - PPR - 12t - start10
QB: TLaw - Purdy - Goff
RB: Chubb - D Montgomery - D Singletary - A Mattison - K Miller - J Hill
WR: CeeDee - Aiyuk - Rice - Godwin - J Reed - E Moore
TE: Kittle - Kincaid - Chig
picks: 1.09, 2.11

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Valhalla » Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:18 pm

WRs since Randy ('98) that have been 6'2.5"+ (that half inch cut the sample down to a reasonable size to handle) drafted in the 3rd round or higher (as requested earlier), sorted and separated by BMI. I highlighted the players that were great dynasty contributors (over time). I used the NFLcombineresults.com site for most of the data, because they seem to have more precise measurements on height. Most sites just round the height. Everyone is 6'2" or 6'3" or 6'4" etc, but they give very precise numbers so I figured they were striving for accuracy. That doesn't prove they are accurate, though. I see DD has different BMI numbers for multiple players, which will happen if heights are rounded on PlayerProfiler (or just wrong on the site I used). The older player numbers may be way off. They list Randy as 6'4" 194lbs. I just saw a draft video that listed him as 6'5" 210. And I see PlayerProfiler has him at 6'4" 210. So those numbers from decades ago...who knows. Anyways...here's EVERY (I think) 6'2.5"+ player in the top 3 rounds since '98. Use it or call it useless and move on.

29.3- Greg Little
29.2-
29.1-
29.0- Teyo Johnson
28.9-
28.8- Vincent Jackson, Chase Claypool
28.7-
28.6- N'Keal Harry
28.5- Kelvin Benjamin
28.4-
28.3- Calvin Johnson
28.2- Larry Fitzgerald, D.K. Metcalf
28.1- Reggie Williams, Devin Funchess
28.0- Mikhael Ricks, Dorial Green-Beckham
27.9- Josh Gordon (supplemental)
27.8- Demaryius Thomas, Allen Robinson, Michael Floyd
27.7- Julio Jones
27.6- Mike Evans
27.5- Brandon Marshall, Joe Jurevicius, Jon Baldwin
27.4- Jordy Nelson, Mike Williams (USC)
27.3- Tyrone Calico, Kenny Britt
27.2- Kelley Washington, Cody Latimer
27.1- Plaxico Burress, Alshon Jeffery, Michael Pittman, Brian Quick, Kevin White, Jalen Hurd
27.0- Sylvester Morris, Courtland Sutton, Miles Boykin
26.9-
26.8-
26.7- Michael Thomas, Drake London, Dwayne Jarrett, Brandon LaFell, Kenny Golladay, Mike Williams (Clemson), Bryan Edwards
26.6-
26.5- Tee Higgins, David Terrell, Braylon Edwards, Jacoby Jones, Ramses Barden
26.4- Javon Walker, Malcolm Kelly, Patrick Turner, Austin Pettis, Aaron Dobson, Jordan Matthews, DeVante Parker, Cedric Tillman
26.3- Michael Clayton, Rueben Randle, Alec Pierce
26.2- Germane Crowell, Michael Jenkins, Brian Robiskie, Stephen Hill, Quentin Johnston
26.1- Nico Collins, Maurice Stovall
26.0- Denzel Mims
25.9- A.J. Green
25.8- Billy McMullen
25.7-
25.6- ***Randy Moss??***
25.5- James Hardy
25.4- Larry Shannon
25.3-
25.2- Derrick Hamilton, Christian Watson
25.1-
25.0- D.J. Chark ***Marvin Harrison Jr??***
24.9- Limas Sweed
24.8-
24.7- Sidney Rice
24.6- Ashley Lelie
24.5-
24.4-
24.3-
24.2- George Pickens, Marcus Nash
24.1-
24.0- Chris Henry
23.9- ***Randy Moss??***, Justin Hunter


I suppose one take-away is...maybe almost every super stud falls into a certain range because most of the guys that tall fall into that BMI range...but a BMI of 25 still makes me uncomfortable when I'm expecting a super stud. Especially if Randy was really 210...cause that would make Marvin Harrison Jr. the new lowest outlier if he's truly 6'4" 205.
Last edited by Valhalla on Tue Feb 27, 2024 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby trc » Tue Feb 27, 2024 1:18 am

@Valhalla
Thank you for the effort!

Ideally you would want a BMI +27. At least that is my take away.

I'm curious why Alshon is left out, but Josh Gordon included? Alshon had 2 +1k seasons, and 4 more +750 seasons, where 2 of those seasons where cut short due to injuries.

The exercise is to find the players that actually make it at the next level.

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Anteaters » Tue Feb 27, 2024 3:59 am

Valhalla wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:18 pmI suppose one take-away is...maybe almost every super stud falls into a certain range because most of the guys that tall fall into that BMI range
That was my assumption without seeing the numbers. Now that you've collected the data (thanks) it sort of confirms my assumption.

I did not doubt that most of the better fantasy tall WRs fell within the "good" range you designated. I did wonder if that was a range the good and bad tall WRs fell into. And since it is, it's kind of futile to use it as a determining factor when choosing which rookie WR to target.

It seems there is not enough data to determine if MHJr's supposed lower-than-average BMI is going to be a detriment to his career. Sure, some fantasy managers can fall back on the old trope of "too skinny" and avoid MHJr like some avoided Devonta a couple of years ago. But considering how Devonta has performed so far, I'm not sure we have enough information to determine BMI matters all that much for a WR, very tall or not so tall.

OTOH, if some one is determined to use this information to find an edge, I suppose 27.0 could be targeted as a sweet spot. More than that BMI and about 35% of tall rookie WRs have good fantasy careers. Less than that number and about 8.5% of tall rookie WRs succeed. [I did not use the players listed at exactly 27.0 in either count]

I won't be using that 27.0bmi cutoff, but an argument could be built around that figure.


Valhalla wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:18 pmbut a BMI of 25 still makes me uncomfortable when I'm expecting a super stud. Especially if Randy was really 210...cause that would make Marvin Harrison Jr. the new lowest outlier if he's truly 6'4" 205.
I'm targeting tall WRs with a BMI 30.0+. I want a Greg (not so) Little type guy to put up a great season. Who is that guy in this draft? I'm targeting him everywhere!
TEAM 1:
12 Team ppr w/20 keepers - start 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1FLX 6IDP 1DEF
QB: Tua, Lamar, Levis
RB: Etienne, Pacheco, JavonteWms, JFord, CEH
WR: Lamb, JChase, Waddle, Pickens, MWilliams, Q Johnston
TE: Goedert, Friermuth
DEF: Cowboys, Ravens
IDP:(LB) Bolton, Greenlaw; (DE/DL) ZCollins, BJHill; (S/CB) Pitre, Bates, Witherspoon
2023 & 2022 Champion: 2020 third place: 2019 Champion

TEAM 2:
14 Team 30roster SF/ppr/TEP - QB/RB/WR/TE/5FLX/SF
QB: Tua, CJStroud, Carr, AOC, MWhite, Lock
RB: Etienne, Stevenson, GusE, AJD, Singletary, CEH, Spiller
WR: Amon-Ra, Kirk, Dell, Thielen, Gallup, Ch Jones
TE: Andrews, Waller, Taysom, Smythe, WMallory, JOliver
2023 semifinals loser

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Jigga94 » Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:51 am

I still don't see how you are supposed to take anything away from this data confidently.

1. BMI varies wildly from site to site as players go up/down an inch or 5 lbs and it skews the entire sample.
2. The sample you are looking at for <26 BMI is insanely small and most of those guys were not Elite prospects.
3. The NFL has changed drastically since the likes of Calvin and Fitz. A guy like Tank Dell would not have survived 15 years ago. Now, its almost a hinderance to be tall (unless you can actually run routes at 6'4")

I see people trying to make a cutoff for 27 BMI. WR that are at least 6'2" and >27 BMI past 4 years
Rd 1: Burks
Rd 2: Mingo, Pittman, Claypool
Rd 3: Michael Wilson
Day 3: Gabe Davis, Peoples-Jones, and a lot of duds

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Bronco Billy » Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:01 am

Jigga94 wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:51 am I still don't see how you are supposed to take anything away from this data confidently.

1. BMI varies wildly from site to site as players go up/down an inch or 5 lbs and it skews the entire sample.
2. The sample you are looking at for <26 BMI is insanely small and most of those guys were not Elite prospects.
3. The NFL has changed drastically since the likes of Calvin and Fitz. A guy like Tank Dell would not have survived 15 years ago. Now, its almost a hinderance to be tall (unless you can actually run routes at 6'4")

I see people trying to make a cutoff for 27 BMI. WR that are at least 6'2" and >27 BMI past 4 years
Rd 1: Burks
Rd 2: Mingo, Pittman, Claypool
Rd 3: Michael Wilson
Day 3: Gabe Davis, Peoples-Jones, and a lot of duds
Looks like there is a cluster between 27.4 and 28.3. After that, it’s pretty much throw some **** against the wall and see what sticks. With players gaming the scales at the combine, I’m not sure how there even confidence in the cluster range.

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Jigga94 » Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:08 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:01 am
Jigga94 wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:51 am I still don't see how you are supposed to take anything away from this data confidently.

1. BMI varies wildly from site to site as players go up/down an inch or 5 lbs and it skews the entire sample.
2. The sample you are looking at for <26 BMI is insanely small and most of those guys were not Elite prospects.
3. The NFL has changed drastically since the likes of Calvin and Fitz. A guy like Tank Dell would not have survived 15 years ago. Now, its almost a hinderance to be tall (unless you can actually run routes at 6'4")

I see people trying to make a cutoff for 27 BMI. WR that are at least 6'2" and >27 BMI past 4 years
Rd 1: Burks
Rd 2: Mingo, Pittman, Claypool
Rd 3: Michael Wilson
Day 3: Gabe Davis, Peoples-Jones, and a lot of duds
Looks like there is a cluster between 27.4 and 28.3. After that, it’s pretty much throw some **** against the wall and see what sticks. With players gaming the scales at the combine, I’m not sure how there even confidence in the cluster range.
Right, we did this with Devonta Smith, Addison and plenty other Elite WR prospects the past few years. It's nothing new. But good luck to anyone making a cutoff based on BMI. You would be missing on basically every good WR

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Valhalla » Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:10 am

trc wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 1:18 am @Valhalla
Thank you for the effort!

Ideally you would want a BMI +27. At least that is my take away.

I'm curious why Alshon is left out, but Josh Gordon included? Alshon had 2 +1k seasons, and 4 more +750 seasons, where 2 of those seasons where cut short due to injuries.

The exercise is to find the players that actually make it at the next level.
Just looked past him. I know, you’re right. He had a nice stretch of true difference making play/dynasty contribution. He should be green.
People could argue for guys like Pittman and Higgins too. I just want to see it for a little longer. There are guys that put up 1000 once or twice and are then done being even useful.

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Re: WR size consideration (FUN for the 1.1!)

Postby Valhalla » Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:26 am

Jigga wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:01 am ...
2. The sample you are looking at for <26 BMI is insanely small and most of those guys were not Elite prospects.
...
Which is why I would still draft him. I'm just pointing out, his build is quite lanky for the NFL.


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