Title Game Weekend Thread

[Bronco Billy]

You guys are old-school and are part of the dying conservative guard that prefers to punt on 4th and inches at the 50 rather than trusting your team to make a play that could be the nail in the coffin vs a MORE TALENTED TEAM already mounting a comeback.

Yeah, but those knuckledragging old school guys are the ones that take their team to the SB. As I said in s previous post, these new school geniuses think they know better than legendary coaches whose decisions actually won championships. I’ve seen that mentality enough and its results.

[mild]

Yeah, but those knuckledragging old school guys are the ones that take their team to the SB. As I said in s previous post, these new school geniuses think they know better than legendary coaches whose decisions actually won championships. I’ve seen that mentality enough and its results.

Andy Reid is one of the most aggressive coaches in the league and has constantly gone for it in high-leverage 4th down situations. Look no further than the 4th-and-2 early in the 1st Quarter in Baltimore last Sunday for a prime example.

He's about to go to his 4th Superbowl in 6 years.

The other winners of those Superbowls?

- Los Angeles Rams (perhaps the most anti-knuckle dragger coach I can think of in McVay?)
- New England Patriots (Belichick and Brady, decidedly not what I'd call knuckle-draggers - Beli was going for it on 4th before it was cool)
- Tampa Bay (Brady again, noted enjoyer of clutch 4th down conversions)
- Philadelphia Eagles (maybe the most progressive analytics-minded front office / coaching tree in the league? they're up there at the least... a count of the amount of aggressive decisions they had to make and MAKE to beat Brady in this bowl would be "a sh-tload")

So yeah, an almighty "lol" to the idea of Knuckle-Dragging conservative coaches winning Superbowls in the modern era.

Campbell is playing the right way. It didn't work out for him on Sunday, but I can think of numerous plays that impacted the game far more than his 4th down decision making.

Back to the Dinosaur Cage with you.

[Sriracha]

You guys are old-school and are part of the dying conservative guard that prefers to punt on 4th and inches at the 50 rather than trusting your team to make a play that could be the nail in the coffin vs a MORE TALENTED TEAM already mounting a comeback.

Yeah, but those knuckledragging old school guys are the ones that take their team to the SB. As I said in s previous post, these new school geniuses think they know better than legendary coaches whose decisions actually won championships. I’ve seen that mentality enough and its results.

DET is not one of the most talented teams in the NFL and they almost made it to the Super Bowl. They were 7 point underdogs in this game, have a defense that has been exploited for the past month+ and just saw the 49ers (an offensive juggernaut much of the year) march down the field and were lucky to only give up a field goal to start the 2nd half.

You could feel the momentum slipping watching the game.

A 17 point lead was not something they had the luxury of sitting on. I've seen teams lose far more often than not playing conservatively in this scenario.

As a Packer fan you should know first hand how detrimental to winning "playing not to lose" is to actually closing out games. We've seen Joe Barry neuter his defense enough times this year by sinking into a soft cover 2 shell defense trying to protect a lead only to give new life to QBs they'd bottled up for most of the game -- Tommy Devito, Bryce Young, Brock Purdy

[FantasyFreak]

Astounding. We know what the outcome was after Campbell stuck to his guns, pissing away a 17 pt lead in less than a quarter and giving his team literally no chance to win at the end, and yet there are still some defending him. They want to blame Reynolds for the drops but want to completely ignore the decisions to put Reynolds in those positions with Campbell’s poor decisions and putting him in those positions despite having ARSB, LaPorta and Gibbs on the roster yet relying on Reynolds to dig them out from under those bad decisions.

What's astounding is the jump in logic it takes to somehow blame a WR dropping a WIDE OPEN pass on a coach putting him in the position to MAKE A PLAY -- which is what these guys are paid to do.

Sure, those are better playmakers but the opposing defense also knows that and are going to put significantly more defensive resources into stopping them.

You guys are old-school and are part of the dying conservative guard that prefers to punt on 4th and inches at the 50 rather than trusting your team to make a play that could be the nail in the coffin vs a MORE TALENTED TEAM already mounting a comeback.

I'm not saying that approach is wrong but to unilaterally say that playing to win instead of not-lose is "stupid" or a "poor decision" is insanity.

I'm not saying Campbell didn't have some blame for this loss.. there were other parts of the game that were somewhat questionable but to pin this collapse solely on his decision to go for the knockout blow instead of attempting a long field goal is strange.

No. I'm just about taking points against a team on the road to make it a 3 score game with less than half the 3rd quarter left. It was a poor decision at the time, I felt so before they failed. This isn't 20/20 hindsight, it was always a poor decision in this scenario.

A 45 yard FG in good weather isn't what I'd consider long, and if you don't trust your kicker to hit those, then you should have gotten another one, it's an NFC title game, and if you're not trusting your kicker with those, you have a roster issue that you have failed to address.

Dying conservative guard, LOL. Punting on 4th and inches on the 50, yeah, that's not what I am saying at all.

Campbell does not have a good grasp of when and where to make aggressive calls, and he doesn't know much about how to use the clock in his favor, that's pretty damn obvious at this point. From the Cowboys game, to the Bucs game, to Sunday's game.

His poor decision was the catalyst that led to the comeback, and he doubled down on it later. He was a major reason the Lions lost this game.

[Bronco Billy]

Astounding. We know what the outcome was after Campbell stuck to his guns, pissing away a 17 pt lead in less than a quarter and giving his team literally no chance to win at the end, and yet there are still some defending him. They want to blame Reynolds for the drops but want to completely ignore the decisions to put Reynolds in those positions with Campbell’s poor decisions and putting him in those positions despite having ARSB, LaPorta and Gibbs on the roster yet relying on Reynolds to dig them out from under those bad decisions.

What's astounding is the jump in logic it takes to somehow blame a WR dropping a WIDE OPEN pass on a coach putting him in the position to MAKE A PLAY -- which is what these guys are paid to do.

Sure, those are better playmakers but the opposing defense also knows that and are going to put significantly more defensive resources into stopping them.

You guys are old-school and are part of the dying conservative guard that prefers to punt on 4th and inches at the 50 rather than trusting your team to make a play that could be the nail in the coffin vs a MORE TALENTED TEAM already mounting a comeback.

I'm not saying that approach is wrong but to unilaterally say that playing to win instead of not-lose is "stupid" or a "poor decision" is insanity.

I'm not saying Campbell didn't have some blame for this loss.. there were other parts of the game that were somewhat questionable but to pin this collapse solely on his decision to go for the knockout blow instead of attempting a long field goal is strange.

No. I'm just about taking points against a team on the road to make it a 3 score game with less than half the 3rd quarter left. It was a poor decision at the time, I felt so before they failed. This isn't 20/20 hindsight, it was always a poor decision in this scenario.

A 45 yard FG in good weather isn't what I'd consider long, and if you don't trust your kicker to hit those, then you should have gotten another one, it's an NFC title game, and if you're not trusting your kicker with those, you have a roster issue that you have failed to address.

Dying conservative guard, LOL. Punting on 4th and inches on the 50, yeah, that's not what I am saying at all.

Campbell does not have a good grasp of when and where to make aggressive calls, and he doesn't know much about how to use the clock in his favor, that's pretty damn obvious at this point. From the Cowboys game, to the Bucs game, to Sunday's game.

His poor decision was the catalyst that led to the comeback, and he doubled down on it later. He was a major reason the Lions lost this game.

On the plus side for him, in his mind his decisions are absolutely the right ones despite the outcome. He can easily lay the outcomes on the analytics, where he actually even didn’t have to make the decision - it was all the mathematics’ fault and he just went along. And look at those leaping to his defense despite the outcome. He’s clearly blameless.

[murphysxm]

A 45 yard FG in good weather isn't what I'd consider long, and if you don't trust your kicker to hit those, then you should have gotten another one, it's an NFC title game, and if you're not trusting your kicker with those, you have a roster issue that you have failed to address.

If you can't trust a WR to catch a 7 year pass that hits his hands, don't you also have a roster issue that you have failed to address? Or does the logic only work one direction? He made decisions based on the circumstances in front of him consistent with how he has made decisions (very successfully) all year. Not getting the results you want doesn't make the decisions flawed.

[Sriracha]

A 45 yard FG in good weather isn't what I'd consider long, and if you don't trust your kicker to hit those, then you should have gotten another one, it's an NFC title game, and if you're not trusting your kicker with those, you have a roster issue that you have failed to address.

If you can't trust a WR to catch a 7 year pass that hits his hands, don't you also have a roster issue that you have failed to address? Or does the logic only work one direction? He made decisions based on the circumstances in front of him consistent with how he has made decisions (very successfully) all year. Not getting the results you want doesn't make the decisions flawed.

I just don't think we're going to agree here.

They're talking about this decision as if it's assuredly the reason DET lost the game -- which is literally impossible to say with certainty.

Time to move on before we start getting into circular arguments

[Dynasty DeLorean]

A 45 yard FG in good weather isn't what I'd consider long, and if you don't trust your kicker to hit those, then you should have gotten another one, it's an NFC title game, and if you're not trusting your kicker with those, you have a roster issue that you have failed to address.

If you can't trust a WR to catch a 7 year pass that hits his hands, don't you also have a roster issue that you have failed to address? Or does the logic only work one direction? He made decisions based on the circumstances in front of him consistent with how he has made decisions (very successfully) all year. Not getting the results you want doesn't make the decisions flawed.

I just don't think we're going to agree here.

They're talking about this decision as if it's assuredly the reason DET lost the game -- which is literally impossible to say with certainty.

Time to move on before we start getting into circular arguments

It lost them the game. Source: Trust me bro.

[killer_of_giants]

They're talking about this decision as if it's assuredly the reason DET lost the game -- which is literally impossible to say with certainty.

i think the discussion started on the decision itself, then someone came in to say that if they didn't drop and fumble they'd win anyway (and if my auntie had bollocks...), which is not the point really: the errors on the field and on the sidelines both contributed to the loss. to which extent, who knows. but one thing is 100% under your control, while drops and fumbles are part of the game and will happen at some point. so saying "they shouldn't have fumbled the ball" is a no shit sherlock thing to say, "he should have kicked the FG" is at least an argument.

[Bronco Billy]

It lost them the game. Source: Scoreboard.

FTFY

H2H

[FantasyFreak]

A 45 yard FG in good weather isn't what I'd consider long, and if you don't trust your kicker to hit those, then you should have gotten another one, it's an NFC title game, and if you're not trusting your kicker with those, you have a roster issue that you have failed to address.

If you can't trust a WR to catch a 7 year pass that hits his hands, don't you also have a roster issue that you have failed to address? Or does the logic only work one direction? He made decisions based on the circumstances in front of him consistent with how he has made decisions (very successfully) all year. Not getting the results you want doesn't make the decisions flawed.

How successful was it in the Dallas game? Worked out well there, didn't it.....Once they were put back due to the penalty, he should have kicked the PAT. I don't know how many times I have to go over it, but I'm done after this.

The result wasn't the only thing that was flawed. The process was. I said it many times, it was a bad decision, regardless of the result. Said it before the snap of the ball, and still say it now. Bad decision, under the circumstance.

I fundamentally disagree with anybody claiming it was a good decision, and defending it. I don't think the process is sound, and never will, and I've explained why multiple times, so I'll leave it at that.

[CGW]

Yeah I love aggressive play calling, but then there's this. The Dallas two pointer blunder was the worst. You don't go for a 7yard two point conversion when you can tie the game with a PAT. You also don't go for 4th and 3 when you are up 14 deep into the third quarter. You take the field goal and go up three scores. Then, what almost no1 seems to care about, is running the ball on 3rd and goal with a minute left in the game, down two scores. Burnt the timeout that forced the onside kick that no1 ever gets anymore, essentially giving them zero chance to get the ball back.

It's a pattern of reckless decisions, that cost them two pretty big games with one being the bye and home field advantage and one being their elimination.

Don't get me wrong, the guy has done very well building a culture for a team that's desperately needed some change. The players seem to love playing for him and have bought in. Hopefully, Campbell learns that being a cowboy doesn't mean being an idiot. Lots to learn from this season.

[wickerkat1212]

Some of the "non-kick" choices have been stupid. I agree.

[Tvols]

Yeah I love aggressive play calling, but then there's this. The Dallas two pointer blunder was the worst. You don't go for a 7yard two point conversion when you can tie the game with a PAT. You also don't go for 4th and 3 when you are up 14 deep into the third quarter. You take the field goal and go up three scores. Then, what almost no1 seems to care about, is running the ball on 3rd and goal with a minute left in the game, down two scores. Burnt the timeout that forced the onside kick that no1 ever gets anymore, essentially giving them zero chance to get the ball back.

It's a pattern of reckless decisions, that cost them two pretty big games with one being the bye and home field advantage and one being their elimination.

Don't get me wrong, the guy has done very well building a culture for a team that's desperately needed some change. The players seem to love playing for him and have bought in. Hopefully, Campbell learns that being a cowboy doesn't mean being an idiot. Lots to learn from this season.

Spot on

[killer_of_giants]

Yeah I love aggressive play calling, but then there's this. The Dallas two pointer blunder was the worst. You don't go for a 7yard two point conversion when you can tie the game with a PAT. You also don't go for 4th and 3 when you are up 14 deep into the third quarter. You take the field goal and go up three scores. Then, what almost no1 seems to care about, is running the ball on 3rd and goal with a minute left in the game, down two scores. Burnt the timeout that forced the onside kick that no1 ever gets anymore, essentially giving them zero chance to get the ball back.

It's a pattern of reckless decisions, that cost them two pretty big games with one being the bye and home field advantage and one being their elimination.

Don't get me wrong, the guy has done very well building a culture for a team that's desperately needed some change. The players seem to love playing for him and have bought in. Hopefully, Campbell learns that being a cowboy doesn't mean being an idiot. Lots to learn from this season.

but... but... THE DROPS! THE FUMBLE!!!