Odd that you write this up with your position and then toss in a Kelce reference. Brady must have been limited/conservative too.Sriracha wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:59 pmI believe it signals either a limitation in your ability to get the ball to your perimeter weapons (whether that be arm strength/accuracy/ability to use anticipation to throw guys open) or a conservative nature; both of which I don't see as good signs for an elite QB.StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:47 pmWhy do you think TE targets are signs of a bad QB?
Or do you just mean targeting a bad TE?
Engram is a decent talent but he's not Travis Kelce and there were many games throughout the year where the perimeter weapons in this offense were completely ignored. You can point to Ridley having fallen off a bit since his days as a Falcon but with elite QBs they find a way to get the ball to the outside weapons regardless of who's out there. We just saw Jordan Love do it with Bo Melton fresh off the practice squad in consecutive weeks after he lost his top 2 WRs and the third weapon, Wicks 2 weeks ago and Reed last week at the half. That's not unusual for good QBs and there are plenty of other examples but that's the first that comes to mind. In the NFL the lesser known names are hardly ever as bad as people make them out to be -- these guys are all good football players or they wouldn't be here.
I lowered my expectations for Lawrence after he heavily targeted Dan freaking Arnold his rookie year
Offseason Shopping List
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Re: Offseason Shopping List
Re: Offseason Shopping List
Go back and look throughout Tom's career.Bronco Billy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:12 pm Odd that you write this up with your position and then toss in a Kelce reference. Brady must have been limited/conservative too.
When he didn't have an elite TE weapon to throw to he didn't throw to them at an oridinate rate.
Also, why do you feel me referencing Kelce here is odd? A receiving weapon is a receiving weapon regardless of their positional designation.
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Re: Offseason Shopping List
Because I’d hardly call Mahomes limited/conservative. And the fact is Brady did target his TEs when they provided the best option for him. Good QBs target mismatches regardless of where they are on the field.Sriracha wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:17 pmGo back and look throughout Tom's career.Bronco Billy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:12 pm Odd that you write this up with your position and then toss in a Kelce reference. Brady must have been limited/conservative too.
When he didn't have an elite TE weapon to throw to he didn't throw to them at an oridinate rate.
Also, why do you feel me referencing Kelce here is odd? A receiving weapon is a receiving weapon regardless of their positional designation.
Re: Offseason Shopping List
You're getting my message twisted.Bronco Billy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:38 pm Because I’d hardly call Mahomes limited/conservative. And the fact is Brady did target his TEs when they provided the best option for him. Good QBs target mismatches regardless of where they are on the field.
You should absolutely target your best players and in the very rare instance that's a TE -- like it is with Kelce, Gronk, Jimmy Graham pre injury -- you target them.
When the TE is Dan Arnold and James O'Shaughnessy -- two guys who can barely stick on a roster -- and you still pepper them with targets it's concerning.
Re: Offseason Shopping List
Who should he have been targeting? Shenault? Treadwell? Or 31 year old Marvin jones , he had garbage for weapons.Sriracha wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:43 pmBronco Billy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:38 pm Because I’d hardly call Mahomes limited/conservative. And the fact is Brady did target his TEs when they provided the best option for him. Good QBs target mismatches regardless of where they are on the field.
When the TE is Dan Arnold and James O'Shaughnessy -- two guys who can barely stick on a roster -- and you still pepper them with targets it's concerning.
Last year Kirk had a career high 1100 yards , he made Xay jones fantasy relevant and resurrected Engrams career.
This year kirk was on pace for 1300 yards before getting hurt , Ridley looked rusty and a step slower and went for a 1000 and engram had a career year , all while battling a bunch of injuries and gutting it out .
You can stick with your scouting that you think Lawrence is overrated but let’s not act like the guy has had it easy , between urban Meyer, injuries and lack of serious weapons around him I don’t think he has even come close to his potential . I’d like to see them spend money and add a tee Higgins or someone like that this off-season.
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What about Dak?
He has heavily targeted kind of mediocre tight ends. Is that a knock on his quarterbacking ability?
He has heavily targeted kind of mediocre tight ends. Is that a knock on his quarterbacking ability?
Re: Offseason Shopping List
If you have to choose between a bad WR or a bad TE you choose the bad WR 10/10 times because they're almost universally the better receiver.
The fact that he decided to feed the bad TE instead was concerning. The fact that this tendency has continued throughout the rest of his career, punctuated by elevating Engram into a season where he caught the 2nd most receptions by a TE in a single season just makes me more skeptical he'll ever become the elite QB he was touted to be coming out of Clemson.
Unless you want to make the argument that Engram is an elite receiving weapon and is deserving of those targets
I was much higher on Lawrence as a prospect than I am now.KingsKing wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:58 pm You can stick with your scouting that you think Lawrence is overrated but let’s not act like the guy has had it easy , between urban Meyer, injuries and lack of serious weapons around him I don’t think he has even come close to his potential . I’d like to see them spend money and add a tee Higgins or someone like that this off-season.
He has the most turnovers of any QB since 2021; The excuses just keep mounting. In year 3... odds are this is just who he is. A very good QB that will probably never be elite even if his surrounding talent might let him have a couple good-great seasons -- Like Derek Carr.
Re: Offseason Shopping List
Yeah, it is and is why he has a penchant for a couple stinker games a year despite the fact he generally plays at a high level.StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 4:43 pm What about Dak?
He has heavily targeted kind of mediocre tight ends. Is that a knock on his quarterbacking ability?
Re: Offseason Shopping List
You target the player who is open, if the wrs aren’t open you throw to the TE that is .
I would argue that a 6’6 240 pound TE that runs a 4.4 is the best weapon he had at his disposal this year after kirk went down .
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Re: Offseason Shopping List
He was very good in year 2 though. A low QB1 and even better than that for just the second half.Sriracha wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 4:46 pmIf you have to choose between a bad WR or a bad TE you choose the bad WR 10/10 times because they're almost universally the better receiver.
The fact that he decided to feed the bad TE instead was concerning. The fact that this tendency has continued throughout the rest of his career, punctuated by elevating Engram into a season where he caught the 2nd most receptions by a TE in a single season just makes me more skeptical he'll ever become the elite QB he was touted to be coming out of Clemson.
Unless you want to make the argument that Engram is an elite receiving weapon and is deserving of those targets
I was much higher on Lawrence as a prospect than I am now.KingsKing wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:58 pm You can stick with your scouting that you think Lawrence is overrated but let’s not act like the guy has had it easy , between urban Meyer, injuries and lack of serious weapons around him I don’t think he has even come close to his potential . I’d like to see them spend money and add a tee Higgins or someone like that this off-season.
He has the most turnovers of any QB since 2021; The excuses just keep mounting. In year 3... odds are this is just who he is. A very good QB that will probably never be elite even if his surrounding talent might let him have a couple good-great seasons -- Like Derek Carr.
If you think that's who the real Lawrence is or even closer to that than to Derek bleep Carr he's a smash buy
Re: Offseason Shopping List
I'd agree if he wasn't still valued as a top 10 QB.StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:01 pm
He was very good in year 2 though. A low QB1 and even better than that for just the second half.
If you think that's who the real Lawrence is or even closer to that than to Derek bleep Carr he's a smash buy
I'd much rather have Jordan Love and Kyler Murray who are valued below him via KTC. Probably Tua Tagovailoa and Brock Purdy, too
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Re: Offseason Shopping List
Justin Herbert - Won't be a better time to buy.
Kendre Miller - If the injuries are behind him, look out. So much depends on Kamara's future, but he's one of my early post-hype sleepers.
DeVonta Smith - I think he's a superstar. Long-term, he will be a #1 WR somewhere. I'm not sure if Philadelphia can afford to keep him long-term. I want in before he becomes the guy somewhere else in a few years.
Dalton Kincaid - With the whispers that Diggs might get moved in the offseason, Kincaid could be in prime territory to breakout early.
Kendre Miller - If the injuries are behind him, look out. So much depends on Kamara's future, but he's one of my early post-hype sleepers.
DeVonta Smith - I think he's a superstar. Long-term, he will be a #1 WR somewhere. I'm not sure if Philadelphia can afford to keep him long-term. I want in before he becomes the guy somewhere else in a few years.
Dalton Kincaid - With the whispers that Diggs might get moved in the offseason, Kincaid could be in prime territory to breakout early.
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Re: Offseason Shopping List
I think Kincaid could gain value.,, but you’re going to have to pay a ton for him if it is an TE Prem league. In those leagues he was likely a top 4/5 pick this last year. Although he may be lower value in non-TE prem leagues.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:38 pm Justin Herbert - Won't be a better time to buy.
Kendre Miller - If the injuries are behind him, look out. So much depends on Kamara's future, but he's one of my early post-hype sleepers.
DeVonta Smith - I think he's a superstar. Long-term, he will be a #1 WR somewhere. I'm not sure if Philadelphia can afford to keep him long-term. I want in before he becomes the guy somewhere else in a few years.
Dalton Kincaid - With the whispers that Diggs might get moved in the offseason, Kincaid could be in prime territory to breakout early.
Good call on Herbert… I’d be shocked if they don’t add a real WR or TE this year early in the draft. Nabers or Brock look really good at the 1.05 ish spot.
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PPR SF, WR & TE Premium (WR 1.2 PPR , TE 1.5 PPR), 10 total starters, 1 QB, 1SF, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 3 Flex
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Re: Offseason Shopping List
Agree on Kyler for sureSriracha wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:05 pmI'd agree if he wasn't still valued as a top 10 QB.StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:01 pm
He was very good in year 2 though. A low QB1 and even better than that for just the second half.
If you think that's who the real Lawrence is or even closer to that than to Derek bleep Carr he's a smash buy
I'd much rather have Jordan Love and Kyler Murray who are valued below him via KTC. Probably Tua Tagovailoa and Brock Purdy, too
Love and Lawrence is about a wash to me. This time next year the dialogue on both could easily be flipped. Individual preference
Tua and Purdy I would not personally take but I suppose it's defensible. Pretty much one tier
Re: Offseason Shopping List
Agree on all and in particular Herbert (buy low) and Smith. Bought Smith in two leagues this season. Some percentage of FF managers just don't like Smith. They aren't all that interested because he's not an NFL WR1. I'm a buyer on Smith as he seems to be slightly less expensive than the other WRs I have in that tier.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:38 pm Justin Herbert - Won't be a better time to buy.
Kendre Miller - If the injuries are behind him, look out. So much depends on Kamara's future, but he's one of my early post-hype sleepers.
DeVonta Smith - I think he's a superstar. Long-term, he will be a #1 WR somewhere. I'm not sure if Philadelphia can afford to keep him long-term. I want in before he becomes the guy somewhere else in a few years.
Dalton Kincaid - With the whispers that Diggs might get moved in the offseason, Kincaid could be in prime territory to breakout early.
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