2023 Week 15

[abloom]

Apparently the league pegged it as a dirty hit as they suspended Kazee for the rest of the season "for violating playing rules intended to protect the health and safety of players." Tough break for the Steelers

I think it was a bad hit. Deserving on year suspension? I dont think so unless there are other infractions that i'm unaware of. This type of hit is not just due to the defender though, its due to the QB. The overall drop in QB play makes these hits happen more, good QBs throw balls to protect their WRs. Bad qbs make their WRs layout and increase risk of injury.

I don't see an issue with the hit, as the didn't really have the time needed to stop, he led with the shoulder, but the dive sort of took Pittman into a worse hit (near the neck). By the rules, it's illegal, but I personally don't understand what Kazee is supposed to do, once he's committed on his angle to make the hit, it's too late once Pittman dives, changing the angle. The ball placement was the reason Pittman got hit where he did, but the league suspended him for multiple infractions. It wasn't a suspension solely based on the Pittman hit.

Touch him when he lands on the ground or wrap him up, or better yet, be in better position to make a play on the ball.

[AlbertaPrime]

Finally some luck my way (I was the 2nd highest scoring team in my league and finished 7-7 and in the last playoff spot).

Went into the Sunday night game down 85-81. I had Gus and my opponent had AJB--needless to say I thought I was toast. I ended up winning 93-90.

[Bronco Billy]

I think it was a bad hit. Deserving on year suspension? I dont think so unless there are other infractions that i'm unaware of. This type of hit is not just due to the defender though, its due to the QB. The overall drop in QB play makes these hits happen more, good QBs throw balls to protect their WRs. Bad qbs make their WRs layout and increase risk of injury.

I don't see an issue with the hit, as the didn't really have the time needed to stop, he led with the shoulder, but the dive sort of took Pittman into a worse hit (near the neck). By the rules, it's illegal, but I personally don't understand what Kazee is supposed to do, once he's committed on his angle to make the hit, it's too late once Pittman dives, changing the angle. The ball placement was the reason Pittman got hit where he did, but the league suspended him for multiple infractions. It wasn't a suspension solely based on the Pittman hit.

Touch him when he lands on the ground or wrap him up, or better yet, be in better position to make a play on the ball.

Are you trolling people or is this a serious position that you’re taking?

[abloom]

I don't see an issue with the hit, as the didn't really have the time needed to stop, he led with the shoulder, but the dive sort of took Pittman into a worse hit (near the neck). By the rules, it's illegal, but I personally don't understand what Kazee is supposed to do, once he's committed on his angle to make the hit, it's too late once Pittman dives, changing the angle. The ball placement was the reason Pittman got hit where he did, but the league suspended him for multiple infractions. It wasn't a suspension solely based on the Pittman hit.

Touch him when he lands on the ground or wrap him up, or better yet, be in better position to make a play on the ball.

Are you trolling people or is this a serious position that you’re taking?

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

[FantasyFreak]

I was down by 9 going into that last Seattle drive with Lock and DK and ended up squeaking out the victory. What a ride!

Nice!

Got to hand it to Lock. He's not that good, but playing QB in the NFL is hard, and that last drive, he was on. Also have to love the effort on the KW9 TD. What a great play. Walker pointing to him, on where to go, and Lock sprinting down the field to cut off the final defender and allow Walker to score. That was a high effort play. You don't see many QB's doing that.

Walker was phenomenal tonight. Had several runs where he should’ve been stopped for a loss or minimal gain and turned them into something.

Also, DK was unreal on that final drive. Get that man more involved earlier next week!

PFF agrees with you. It's always interested to see how players are graded out, when you feel like they have a top notch game, but the stats aren't through the roof, vs a guy who went off. James Cook went off for instance, but he was only contacted behind the or at the LOS, once, on all his carries for instance. Not much Cook could do but take the holes. LOL.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Seahawks/status ... 6313906505

[Bronco Billy]

Touch him when he lands on the ground or wrap him up, or better yet, be in better position to make a play on the ball.

Are you trolling people or is this a serious position that you’re taking?

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

[murphysxm]

Are you trolling people or is this a serious position that you’re taking?

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

Yes it was a bad throw. However, Kazee did leave the ground with his head lowered. I think a case can be made that he didn't intend to hit him the way he did, but he left his feet with no chance to adjust once his decision was made since he wasn't looking. That is the behavior the NFL is cracking down on. I am a Colts fan and think the season suspension was harsh (albeit I am unaware of the previous infractions referenced), but the penalty and ejection were warranted.

[YouMightDieTryin]

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-footb ... ntability/
1. I had no idea the amount of fines that were being handed out on a weekly basis. Ludacris.
2. Kazee has had 5 fines this year alone. So obviously something isn't clicking on player safety.

[Anteaters]

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-footb ... ntability/
1. I had no idea the amount of fines that were being handed out on a weekly basis. Ludacris.
2. Kazee has had 5 fines this year alone. So obviously something isn't clicking on player safety.

I have no problem with the suspension. The NFL told Kazee multiple times to change the way he plays. He ignored the warnings. Suspension was a necessary upgrade in messaging to get Kazee to not cross the line.

This is very similar to the Draymond Green situation, where a player can cry "incidental mistake" only so many times before even the most forgiving of officials have to move beyond messaging to serious punishments.

[CGW]

I have zero issues with the suspension. It's harsh based on the one single infraction, because it's a violent sport and injuries happen...but there is clearly a pattern. When the defender leaves his feet and leads with his the crown of the helmet as a weapon, it's going to cause player safety issues for not only the offensive player but the defender himself. I also agree that it was a terrible throw by Minshew, who has a tendency to make a lot of terrible throws. But both things can be true at once.

I'm absolutely fine with the league coming down hard on this in general and seeking to eliminate the guided missile type of tackle. There is zero reason to lead with the crown of your helmet. That tackle isn't taught at any age of football, and shouldn't be encouraged in the NFL either. And it's not just a defensive issue. RBs are being penalized for the same actions, and should be.

[abloom]

Are you trolling people or is this a serious position that you’re taking?

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

DBs need to use skills inorder to prevent the receivers from getting the ball, not simply launching trying to infect as much damage as they can. It's a game of skill.

The suspension was not due to the hit, it was due to repeated violations including the hit.

And I don't think the QB isn't at fault, they are as well, but the defender has the obligation to not hit defenseless receivers like that.

DBs should be playing better just like QBs should be playing better.

[FantasyFreak]

Are you trolling people or is this a serious position that you’re taking?

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

https://twitter.com/KDPomp/status/1736867567883390989

[Bronco Billy]

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

https://twitter.com/KDPomp/status/1736867567883390989

WTH does he know about it?

[Bronco Billy]

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

DBs need to use skills inorder to prevent the receivers from getting the ball, not simply launching trying to infect as much damage as they can. It's a game of skill.

The suspension was not due to the hit, it was due to repeated violations including the hit.

And I don't think the QB isn't at fault, they are as well, but the defender has the obligation to not hit defenseless receivers like that.

DBs should be playing better just like QBs should be playing better.

Wait. You think a DB would rather hit a receiver than successfully knock a pass away? It just doesn’t happen all the time in football and so a DB has to use physicality to try to break up a play. Sometimes all they can do is hit after the ball arrives. That’s all in their job description and DBs are at a substantial disadvantage with the rules.

Targeting and striking with the crown of the helmet are absolutely penalties that should incur both flags and fines. But that isn’t what happened on this play.

And I find it amazing that I actually had to post this at a football MB.

[abloom]

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

DBs need to use skills inorder to prevent the receivers from getting the ball, not simply launching trying to infect as much damage as they can. It's a game of skill.

The suspension was not due to the hit, it was due to repeated violations including the hit.

And I don't think the QB isn't at fault, they are as well, but the defender has the obligation to not hit defenseless receivers like that.

DBs should be playing better just like QBs should be playing better.

Wait. You think a DB would rather hit a receiver than successfully knock a pass away? It just doesn’t happen all the time in football and so a DB has to use physicality to try to break up a play. Sometimes all they can do is hit after the ball arrives. That’s all in their job description and DBs are at a substantial disadvantage with the rules.

Targeting and striking with the crown of the helmet are absolutely penalties that should incur both flags and fines. But that isn’t what happened on this play.

And I find it amazing that I actually had to post this at a football MB.

What I'm saying is that DBs have to start realizing that sometimes if they can't make a play on the ball that's it, you cannot make a play on a defenseless receiver.