2023 Week 15

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

I'm not sure what some of you are seeing.

He led with the crown of his helmet against a defenceless receiver. Something the nfl has been trying to rid the game of for years. Doesn't matter where the qb places the ball, the db can't lead with the crown of his helmet against a defenceless receiver.

[kmbryant09]

Are you trolling people or is this a serious position that you’re taking?

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

Kazee's final movement leading up to the hit (lowering his helmet and extending low and towards the receiver) happens long after he can see where the ball is AND after Pittman has clearly extended out for the ball. Kazee is essentially aiming directly at the head/neck area of a defenseless WR.

We can discuss intent all you want (whether he's doing it to break up a catch or to intentionally injure someone), but that was WRECKLESS 101 by a DB with a history of dirty hits. How can you watch the replay and argue otherwise??

https://twitter.com/ChrisNowinski1/stat ... bOUfw&s=19

[FantasyFreak]

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

Yes it was a bad throw. However, Kazee did leave the ground with his head lowered.I think a case can be made that he didn't intend to hit him the way he did, but he left his feet with no chance to adjust once his decision was made since he wasn't looking. That is the behavior the NFL is cracking down on. I am a Colts fan and think the season suspension was harsh (albeit I am unaware of the previous infractions referenced), but the penalty and ejection were warranted.

He didn't leave the ground. Hit him with his shoulder. Under the rules, it is a foul, but it's really not a dirty hit. He dislodged the ball, it was a bang bang play. Pittman likely wouldn't have been defenseless, had he not dove, and by that time, contact was imminent. Kazee adjusted, in a split second, and still got him with his shoulder, in the arms/ball first, but the follow through took him into the upper chest/lower neck area. Really not a lot he could do. Wer'e talking fractions, of fractions of a second, from when Pittman totally altered his contact point, to when contact was made.

The ball was poorly thrown, which caused the hit to happen the way it did. This is what Brady is talking about. Had the ball hit Pittman ins stride, he would have been hit, but it wouldn't have been like this. The idea some people think he could have avoided complete contact after he dove, is ridiculous, IMO.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

Those are solutions for a defender dealing with a defenseless receiver.

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

Kazee's final movement leading up to the hit (lowering his helmet and extending low and towards the receiver) happens long after he can see where the ball is AND after Pittman has clearly extended out for the ball. Kazee is essentially aiming directly at the head/neck area of a defenseless WR.

We can discuss intent all you want (whether he's doing it to break up a catch or to intentionally injure someone), but that was WRECKLESS 101 by a DB with a history of dirty hits. How can you watch the replay and argue otherwise??

https://twitter.com/ChrisNowinski1/stat ... bOUfw&s=19

As a person just seeing this play for the first time via your twitter link, I feel like the db is in a no-win situation. Either he does exactly what he did, or he just leaps out of the way and touches Pittman as he's falling. There doesn't seem to be a 3rd option. The db turns his head last second, it appears his intent was to lead with his shoulder and hit the ball. He lowers his head because he's lowering his entire body, as that's where Pittmans body and the ball is. Maybe i'm not up to date with all the rules changes, are db's allowed to hit diving receivers?

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

So your solution is that a DB must have great coverage, if not they are expected to surrender the catch, hope the receiver goes to the ground afterwards, and touch him if he does.

It’s honestly preposterous IMO that anyone could think Kazee anticipated that the throw would force Pittman to stretch out in the direction he did and plan his angle of attack so that he would intentionally lineup his helmet with Pittman’s at the same time the ball arrived.

If you want to suspend someone, suspend the QB for making such a poor throw that it put Pittman in such a vulnerable position. It appeared that Kazee reacted to the pass and was putting himself in a position to hit Pittman low with his pads to prevent YAC and potentially break up the pass with the contact. The bad throw and Pittman’s great effort to catch it put Pittman’s head in Kazee’s predetermined path.

And before you go off on safety, if you review numerous previous posts of mine you’ll find that I’m a strong advocate of safety - maybe one of the strongest on this board - and adamantly opposed to players who intentionally strike with their helmet and/or attack the opponent’s head. This play was very different and just was an unfortunate alignment of the 2 players involved because of the poorly thrown ball. If the NFL is going to start legislating that, teams better start filling their practice squads with DBs because we’re going to see loads of them on suspension. Football is a violent game and if the NFL is going to eliminate players for these kinds of plays they may as well become a flag football league.

Yes it was a bad throw. However, Kazee did leave the ground with his head lowered.I think a case can be made that he didn't intend to hit him the way he did, but he left his feet with no chance to adjust once his decision was made since he wasn't looking. That is the behavior the NFL is cracking down on. I am a Colts fan and think the season suspension was harsh (albeit I am unaware of the previous infractions referenced), but the penalty and ejection were warranted.

He didn't leave the ground. Hit him with his shoulder. Under the rules, it is a foul, but it's really not a dirty hit. He dislodged the ball, it was a bang bang play. Pittman likely wouldn't have been defenseless, had he not dove, and by that time, contact was imminent. Kazee adjusted, in a split second, and still got him with his shoulder, in the arms/ball first, but the follow through took him into the upper chest/lower neck area. Really not a lot he could do. Wer'e talking fractions, of fractions of a second, from when Pittman totally altered his contact point, to when contact was made.

The ball was poorly thrown, which caused the hit to happen the way it did. This is what Brady is talking about. Had the ball hit Pittman ins stride, he would have been hit, but it wouldn't have been like this. The idea some people think he could have avoided complete contact after he dove, is ridiculous, IMO.

A receiver is defenceless until after he has made an "athletic move". Doesn't matter if he's diving or standing on two feet.

Anyway it doesn't matter because he hit him in the head and also led with his helmet. A foul at any time. He's a dirty player that has done this umpteen times. The "accident" excuse doesn't cut it after the first couple of illegal hits to the head.

[FantasyFreak]

Yes it was a bad throw. However, Kazee did leave the ground with his head lowered.I think a case can be made that he didn't intend to hit him the way he did, but he left his feet with no chance to adjust once his decision was made since he wasn't looking. That is the behavior the NFL is cracking down on. I am a Colts fan and think the season suspension was harsh (albeit I am unaware of the previous infractions referenced), but the penalty and ejection were warranted.

He didn't leave the ground. Hit him with his shoulder. Under the rules, it is a foul, but it's really not a dirty hit. He dislodged the ball, it was a bang bang play. Pittman likely wouldn't have been defenseless, had he not dove, and by that time, contact was imminent. Kazee adjusted, in a split second, and still got him with his shoulder, in the arms/ball first, but the follow through took him into the upper chest/lower neck area. Really not a lot he could do. Wer'e talking fractions, of fractions of a second, from when Pittman totally altered his contact point, to when contact was made.

The ball was poorly thrown, which caused the hit to happen the way it did. This is what Brady is talking about. Had the ball hit Pittman ins stride, he would have been hit, but it wouldn't have been like this. The idea some people think he could have avoided complete contact after he dove, is ridiculous, IMO.

A receiver is defenceless until after he has made an "athletic move". Doesn't matter if he's diving or standing on two feet.

Anyway it doesn't matter because he hit him in the head and also led with his helmet. A foul at any time. He's a dirty player that has done this umpteen times. The "accident" excuse doesn't cut it after the first couple of illegal hits to the head.

I get that, in the new NFL, it's been made basically impossible to play defense, the way these guys played most of their lives. This particular hit. I don't see as dirty. As I said, I get the rule, but there is a difference with it being a foul, and it being dirty. To each their own. I'm moving off of this.

On the lighter side, I will leave this.

https://twitter.com/oscarintx/status/17 ... 2742296978

[Jigga94]

Just get rid of DBs and rush all 11

[ButtFumbleCity]

You would think the Steelers of all teams would teach these guys how to tackle properly after seeing what happened to Ryan Shazier. This guys just asking for a broken neck, the suspension is going to protect him more than anyone else.

[Bronco Billy]

Just read through the rules on defenseless players. Kazee is by rule at fault. Here is one of the portions, and according to the letter of the rule the opponent of the defenseless player is completely responsible for the contact - and in reading the rule is expected to do everything including apparently ignoring the laws of physics.

Note 2: A player who initiates contact against a defenseless opponent is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball from an opponent. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a defenseless opponent, even if the opponent is an airborne player who is returning to the ground or whose body position is otherwise in motion, and irrespective of any acts by the defenseless opponent, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact.