2023 Week 13

[CubfanAA]

If the NFL ever needed to get a message that something needs to be done with the refs, the way they dropped trou in the last minute of an otherwise outstanding football game on full display of a national audience in prime time with 2 very popular teams ought to do it or nothing will.

Honestly, I don’t understand the degradation of the officiating over the past few years. The league can blame itself with the changing of some important plays to being so much more difficult to call because it puts what are normal football plays into difficult judgment situations. But I also wonder about the officials and where they are coming from. Given the nature of some of these calls, I sincerely wonder how many refs have significant experience in playing/coaching the game so that they would understand the differences in advantage/disadvantage, in incidental or unavoidable contact vs avoidable contact, and how to evaluate sideline plays. I’m not talking about the bang-bang stuff where the difference occurs in the smallest fraction of a second or where a better angle couldn’t have been obtained in time, but rather the pretty blatant stuff that makes some of them look like they just don’t understand the nuances of the game. It sure looked that way last night during that last minute.

Nothing will change it. I had the same thought. It's a lot of these safety rules that all are basically split second judgement calls. But that doesn't excuse things like PI that have never been called consistently

There is one thing that would change it, but the NFL really doesn't want to do it. Make all referees full time employees with constant training even during the offseason. Pay them enough to attract and keep top talent. Use a pay increase to negotiate in harsh and strict performance based bonuses/consequences into their contract. Any refs performing under minimum performance thresholds are terminated and replaced. It would cost the NFL a lot more money, but the games would improve drastically and quickly.

[wickerkat1212]

I need 15 points from ETN tonight. Think it'll happen?

[frerichs5]

I need 15 points from ETN tonight. Think it'll happen?

Gut call…no. He’s banged up, and not sure how much of a fight the Bengals can put up with Browning. I can see the Jags getting up and letting ETN sit more than normal.

[Jigga94]

If the NFL ever needed to get a message that something needs to be done with the refs, the way they dropped trou in the last minute of an otherwise outstanding football game on full display of a national audience in prime time with 2 very popular teams ought to do it or nothing will.

Honestly, I don’t understand the degradation of the officiating over the past few years. The league can blame itself with the changing of some important plays to being so much more difficult to call because it puts what are normal football plays into difficult judgment situations. But I also wonder about the officials and where they are coming from. Given the nature of some of these calls, I sincerely wonder how many refs have significant experience in playing/coaching the game so that they would understand the differences in advantage/disadvantage, in incidental or unavoidable contact vs avoidable contact, and how to evaluate sideline plays. I’m not talking about the bang-bang stuff where the difference occurs in the smallest fraction of a second or where a better angle couldn’t have been obtained in time, but rather the pretty blatant stuff that makes some of them look like they just don’t understand the nuances of the game. It sure looked that way last night during that last minute.

Nothing will change it. I had the same thought. It's a lot of these safety rules that all are basically split second judgement calls. But that doesn't excuse things like PI that have never been called consistently

There is one thing that would change it, but the NFL really doesn't want to do it. Make all referees full time employees with constant training even during the offseason. Pay them enough to attract and keep top talent. Use a pay increase to negotiate in harsh and strict performance based bonuses/consequences into their contract. Any refs performing under minimum performance thresholds are terminated and replaced. It would cost the NFL a lot more money, but the games would improve drastically and quickly.

Yes but the fact that a billion dollar organization hasn't already done this, makes me think they never will

[Shoreline Steamers]

KC needs to get some real WRS.

Yep said it couple weeks ago

As someone with Mahomes in a keeper, I've felt this way since they let Tyreek go. Kelce was still dominant then, but sadly, I do think age is starting to catch up to him a bit. He's about ready to enter the later career Tony Gonzalez phase, where he can make any catch, but there won't be a whole lot of YAC.

Hoping (though unlikely) Tee Higgins ends up there, but I doubt the Chiefs will pay to sign him. This philosophy of taking in cast-offs like Ju-Ju and MVS to pair with their underwhelming draft picks (Rice might actually be good though - we'll see) just isn't it.

[hoos89]

Disastrous Sunday.
Dell injury really hurt teams #1 and #2.

Brutal for team 2 in my sig. Lost Dell and Stevenson. Went into week with a chance to move from 2nd in league to 1st, everything aligned correctly during gameday, except those two guys got injured. Now, not only will I not move into 1st, but I might slide backwards out of a bye. Also lost my third QB, Carr, for probably a few weeks. Just brutal.

The good news is Team 1 in my sig continued to roll. Regardless of what happens in week 14, this week 13 (coupled with a loss by the #2 team, and a tiebreaker with the #3 team) win lock up the #1 record in the league and a first round bye.

I think the Dell injury puts this season over the top for worst injury luck I've ever had on one team in a season: Rodgers went down for the season after 1 drive, Chubb week 2, Mike Williams week 3, Andrews week 11, Dell week 13, JT opened on IR and now may miss the fantasy playoffs, Ekeler missed 3 weeks with a high ankle sprain and is playing like it's still affecting him, and Chase will be catching balls from Jake Browning for the rest of the season.

[wickerkat1212]

Disastrous Sunday.
Dell injury really hurt teams #1 and #2.

Brutal for team 2 in my sig. Lost Dell and Stevenson. Went into week with a chance to move from 2nd in league to 1st, everything aligned correctly during gameday, except those two guys got injured. Now, not only will I not move into 1st, but I might slide backwards out of a bye. Also lost my third QB, Carr, for probably a few weeks. Just brutal.

The good news is Team 1 in my sig continued to roll. Regardless of what happens in week 14, this week 13 (coupled with a loss by the #2 team, and a tiebreaker with the #3 team) win lock up the #1 record in the league and a first round bye.

I think the Dell injury puts this season over the top for worst injury luck I've ever had on one team in a season: Rodgers went down for the season after 1 drive, Chubb week 2, Mike Williams week 3, Andrews week 11, Dell week 13, JT opened on IR and now may miss the fantasy playoffs, Ekeler missed 3 weeks with a high ankle sprain and is playing like it's still affecting him, and Chase will be catching balls from Jake Browning for the rest of the season.

Look on the bright side—a good team that may get a high pick where you normally wouldn't?

[wickerkat1212]

Dynasty #3—8-4, 2nd place, up 184 to 49, he has Kirk and Engram left. I think good.
Dynasty #4—10-2, 2nd place, up 113 to 71, I have TLaw and Boyd, he has Ridley and Hurst. I think I'm good.
Ultimate Redraft—10-2, 1st place, down 199 to 184, I have ETN left. I don't like it.
Superflex #1—8-4, 3rd place, up 133 to 72, I have Chase. WON.
Superflex #2—(tanking) 1-11, 11th place, up 101 to 61, I have Higgins, he has Boyd, Zay, Kirk. Doesn't matter? IDK.

[mild]

Yep said it couple weeks ago

They really miss Tyreek.

They also won a SB without him

Both can be true.

The reality is that this WR corps is worse than the one they won the Superbowl with (and that was already pretty bad)

This idea of letting Mahomes maximise middling/cheap talent appears to have a floor, and they've found it.

I would like to see them finally be aggressive next year about solving it. Watching the Sam Howells, Jordan Loves, even the Baker Mayfields of the world consistently outscore Mahomes in fantasy this year has been rough scenes.

[Sriracha]

They really miss Tyreek.

They also won a SB without him

Both can be true.

The reality is that this WR corps is worse than the one they won the Superbowl with (and that was already pretty bad)

This idea of letting Mahomes maximise middling/cheap talent appears to have a floor, and they've found it.

I would like to see them finally be aggressive next year about solving it. Watching the Sam Howells, Jordan Loves, even the Baker Mayfields of the world consistently outscore Mahomes in fantasy this year has been rough scenes.

I don't think so.

Rice is a better WR than Juju and while Skyy is a non-factor they pretty much have the same WR core.

What we're seeing is Travis Kelce take a step back (whether that's due to age or nagging injuries I don't know) which is creating more stress on the auxilliary weapons.

Their receiver struggles are directly related to poor self scouting -- in particular with Skyy More who I believe they were expecting to take a big step forward.

Rice is an extremely talented receiver but he was always raw vs the press and should never have been expected to fill that role.

[hoos89]

Brutal for team 2 in my sig. Lost Dell and Stevenson. Went into week with a chance to move from 2nd in league to 1st, everything aligned correctly during gameday, except those two guys got injured. Now, not only will I not move into 1st, but I might slide backwards out of a bye. Also lost my third QB, Carr, for probably a few weeks. Just brutal.

The good news is Team 1 in my sig continued to roll. Regardless of what happens in week 14, this week 13 (coupled with a loss by the #2 team, and a tiebreaker with the #3 team) win lock up the #1 record in the league and a first round bye.

I think the Dell injury puts this season over the top for worst injury luck I've ever had on one team in a season: Rodgers went down for the season after 1 drive, Chubb week 2, Mike Williams week 3, Andrews week 11, Dell week 13, JT opened on IR and now may miss the fantasy playoffs, Ekeler missed 3 weeks with a high ankle sprain and is playing like it's still affecting him, and Chase will be catching balls from Jake Browning for the rest of the season.

Look on the bright side—a good team that may get a high pick where you normally wouldn't?

Traded my picks - I'll still make the playoffs but I probably would have made different trades had I known how tough this season was going to be.

[mild]

Both can be true.

The reality is that this WR corps is worse than the one they won the Superbowl with (and that was already pretty bad)

This idea of letting Mahomes maximise middling/cheap talent appears to have a floor, and they've found it.

I would like to see them finally be aggressive next year about solving it. Watching the Sam Howells, Jordan Loves, even the Baker Mayfields of the world consistently outscore Mahomes in fantasy this year has been rough scenes.

I don't think so.

Rice is a better WR than Juju and while Skyy is a non-factor they pretty much have the same WR core.

My brother in Christ, you literally can't argue this.

Patrick Mahomes, 2022, Weeks 1-13 - QB1, 3808 yards, 30 TD's.
Patrick Mahomes, 2023, Weeks 1-13 - QB8, 3127 yards, 22 TD's.

There is no denying it: the 2022 version of this team worked far better than the 2023 version is. It's not -all- Kelce either - he's only around 160 yards behind his 2022 pace. He's still pretty effective. The real problem is that no-one else is reliably stepping up. I'd even argue that some players (MVS, probably Toney, Skyy always sucked) feel like they have regressed.

Rice -will- turn into a better WR, but I think you're forgetting how solid Juju was at just doing the dirty work over the middle last year - especially for keeping the chains moving. He could take pressure off of the other receivers in a way that Rice so far has not.

Rice has more TD's this season than Juju did to this point, but Juju is still about 100 yards ahead over that 13 week pace.

I don't know how anyone can argue that this WR group isn't inferior to the 2022 edition through the first 13 weeks of the season - unless you are seriously arguing that Patrick Mahomes has regressed as a talent.

[Sriracha]

Both can be true.

The reality is that this WR corps is worse than the one they won the Superbowl with (and that was already pretty bad)

This idea of letting Mahomes maximise middling/cheap talent appears to have a floor, and they've found it.

I would like to see them finally be aggressive next year about solving it. Watching the Sam Howells, Jordan Loves, even the Baker Mayfields of the world consistently outscore Mahomes in fantasy this year has been rough scenes.

I don't think so.

Rice is a better WR than Juju and while Skyy is a non-factor they pretty much have the same WR core.

My brother in Christ, you literally can't argue this.

Patrick Mahomes, 2022, Weeks 1-13 - QB1, 3808 yards, 30 TD's.
Patrick Mahomes, 2023, Weeks 1-13 - QB8, 3127 yards, 22 TD's.

There is no denying it: the 2022 version of this team worked far better than the 2023 version is. It's not -all- Kelce either - he's only around 160 yards behind his 2022 pace. He's still pretty effective. The real problem is that no-one else is reliably stepping up. I'd even argue that some players (MVS, probably Toney, Skyy always sucked) feel like they have regressed.

Rice -will- turn into a better WR, but I think you're forgetting how solid Juju was at just doing the dirty work over the middle last year - especially for keeping the chains moving. He could take pressure off of the other receivers in a way that Rice so far has not.

Rice has more TD's this season than Juju did to this point, but Juju is still about 100 yards ahead over that 13 week pace.

I don't know how anyone can argue that this WR group isn't inferior to the 2022 edition through the first 13 weeks of the season - unless you are seriously arguing that Patrick Mahomes has regressed as a talent.

There is a fair bit of standard variance from year to year so using splits like this can be very misleading; Especially given that the Chiefs have had a top 5 defense for most of the season and are consequently playing at a slower pace.

Rice has been far more effective than Juju on a per route basis. The only reason he's behind Juju is because Rice is only now starting to see the same kind of snap share Juju did throughout the year.

[FantasyFreak]

If the NFL ever needed to get a message that something needs to be done with the refs, the way they dropped trou in the last minute of an otherwise outstanding football game on full display of a national audience in prime time with 2 very popular teams ought to do it or nothing will.

Honestly, I don’t understand the degradation of the officiating over the past few years. The league can blame itself with the changing of some important plays to being so much more difficult to call because it puts what are normal football plays into difficult judgment situations. But I also wonder about the officials and where they are coming from. Given the nature of some of these calls, I sincerely wonder how many refs have significant experience in playing/coaching the game so that they would understand the differences in advantage/disadvantage, in incidental or unavoidable contact vs avoidable contact, and how to evaluate sideline plays. I’m not talking about the bang-bang stuff where the difference occurs in the smallest fraction of a second or where a better angle couldn’t have been obtained in time, but rather the pretty blatant stuff that makes some of them look like they just don’t understand the nuances of the game. It sure looked that way last night during that last minute.

Florio keeps saying if they don't, Congress may end up, and it seems far fetched, but with gambling involved, and the fact it took Congress to look of for players safety. Regardless of people's view of Florio, and I'm not a big fan, I like the fact he's really driving the narrative on refs, and the NFL's relationship to gambling.

[FantasyFreak]

NFC South is going to be really interesting, if TB can beat ATL next week. I am assuming the Saints can pull off a win, vs the Panthers, even if Carr can't go. It would make it a 3 way tie for first, if those things happen.