2013 Week 12 - Thanksgiving

[abloom]

Just getting caught up on all the games. That hit on DTR was clean, should not have been flagged. Roughing the passer calls are just getting more and more out of hand. They create rules to try and protect the passer more, but then flag a guy consistently even when they are within those rules.

Unless you want replay for hits you're going to keep getting them. The speed of the game is fast, the refs get one view of a play at normal speed and that's it. If they see a head whip back they are going to be throwing the flag.

Probably didn’t help he got up with a bloody mouth either.

Doubt they saw his mouth before throwing the flag.

[FantasyFreak]

Just getting caught up on all the games. That hit on DTR was clean, should not have been flagged. Roughing the passer calls are just getting more and more out of hand. They create rules to try and protect the passer more, but then flag a guy consistently even when they are within those rules.

Unless you want replay for hits you're going to keep getting them. The speed of the game is fast, the refs get one view of a play at normal speed and that's it. If they see a head whip back they are going to be throwing the flag.

That's not really acceptable though. QB personnel foul calls alter outcome of games. If the league wants to get rid of certain hits, and to protect the QB, there has to be a better way than altering outcomes of games.

If a player makes a hit the league think is a foul, suspend him. Suspend him for the year on second offense and throw him out of the league on 3rd. Or do something else, i wouldn't care, but calling questionable personal fouls during the game is making the game hard to watch.

I'm all for the booth overturning PF calls. They already do it for completions and turnovers. They quickly call down and correct it.

[abloom]

Just getting caught up on all the games. That hit on DTR was clean, should not have been flagged. Roughing the passer calls are just getting more and more out of hand. They create rules to try and protect the passer more, but then flag a guy consistently even when they are within those rules.

Unless you want replay for hits you're going to keep getting them. The speed of the game is fast, the refs get one view of a play at normal speed and that's it. If they see a head whip back they are going to be throwing the flag.

That's not really acceptable though. QB personnel foul calls alter outcome of games. If the league wants to get rid of certain hits, and to protect the QB, there has to be a better way than altering outcomes of games.

If a player makes a hit the league think is a foul, suspend him. Suspend him for the year on second offense and throw him out of the league on 3rd. Or do something else, i wouldn't care, but calling questionable personal fouls during the game is making the game hard to watch.

You can either get the bad flags or you can have review of penalties. The NFL has already shown you which way they will go with pass interference.

A bad call here or there happens. Do some alter the result of the game? Sure. But far more games are altered by better play, coaching, and play calling.

If the occasional bad call is making the game hard to watch you should probably stop watching.

[abloom]

Unless you want replay for hits you're going to keep getting them. The speed of the game is fast, the refs get one view of a play at normal speed and that's it. If they see a head whip back they are going to be throwing the flag.

That's not really acceptable though. QB personnel foul calls alter outcome of games. If the league wants to get rid of certain hits, and to protect the QB, there has to be a better way than altering outcomes of games.

If a player makes a hit the league think is a foul, suspend him. Suspend him for the year on second offense and throw him out of the league on 3rd. Or do something else, i wouldn't care, but calling questionable personal fouls during the game is making the game hard to watch.

I'm all for the booth overturning PF calls. They already do it for completions and turnovers. They quickly call down and correct it.

All that will happen is you will see more flags and you will still see assessed penalties. It will basically take out only the ones that are egregiously incorrect.

[FantasyFreak]

Unless you want replay for hits you're going to keep getting them. The speed of the game is fast, the refs get one view of a play at normal speed and that's it. If they see a head whip back they are going to be throwing the flag.

That's not really acceptable though. QB personnel foul calls alter outcome of games. If the league wants to get rid of certain hits, and to protect the QB, there has to be a better way than altering outcomes of games.

If a player makes a hit the league think is a foul, suspend him. Suspend him for the year on second offense and throw him out of the league on 3rd. Or do something else, i wouldn't care, but calling questionable personal fouls during the game is making the game hard to watch.

You can either get the bad flags or you can have review of penalties. The NFL has already shown you which way they will go with pass interference.

A bad call here or there happens. Do some alter the result of the game? Sure. But far more games are altered by better play, coaching, and play calling.

If the occasional bad call is making the game hard to watch you should probably stop watching.

Review PF calls. The roughing the passer calls aren't really all that occassional. If it's a clear miss, change it, if not, let it stand. It should only take 30 seconds, and overturn only clear oversights, because there are enough of them to warrant it. No challenges like PI, just a quick look, like they already do for fumbles, or catches that are clear misses. Easy fix.

[Sriracha]

Just getting caught up on all the games. That hit on DTR was clean, should not have been flagged. Roughing the passer calls are just getting more and more out of hand. They create rules to try and protect the passer more, but then flag a guy consistently even when they are within those rules.

It's hard to be a defensive player in 2023; However his shoulder did contact DTR's helmet which resulted in the bloody lip and concussion that probably won the Broncos the game given how much worse Walker played.

Browning played that about as text book as he could but anytime there's contact with the helmet the refs are going to throw a flag

[FantasyFreak]

Just getting caught up on all the games. That hit on DTR was clean, should not have been flagged. Roughing the passer calls are just getting more and more out of hand. They create rules to try and protect the passer more, but then flag a guy consistently even when they are within those rules.

It's hard to be a defensive player in 2023; However his shoulder did contact DTR's helmet which resulted in the bloody lip and concussion that probably won the Broncos the game given how much worse Walker played.

Browning played that about as text book as he could but anytime there's contact with the helmet the refs are going to throw a flag

No, the bloody lip and concussion came from him landing on his face, and biting his tongue, with no mouthguard in. Playing without a mouthguard, there is always a risk of biting your tongue, with every hit. The hit with the shoulder was clearly to his chest. Again, the booth could quickly call that down and correct it, like a catch or fumble that is clearly wrong, and is called down.

[Sriracha]

Just getting caught up on all the games. That hit on DTR was clean, should not have been flagged. Roughing the passer calls are just getting more and more out of hand. They create rules to try and protect the passer more, but then flag a guy consistently even when they are within those rules.

It's hard to be a defensive player in 2023; However his shoulder did contact DTR's helmet which resulted in the bloody lip and concussion that probably won the Broncos the game given how much worse Walker played.

Browning played that about as text book as he could but anytime there's contact with the helmet the refs are going to throw a flag

No, the bloody lip and concussion came from him landing on his face, and biting his tongue, with no mouthguard in.

I guess that's possible but the whiplash seen at the point of impact in the head area makes me think otherwise

[FantasyFreak]

It's hard to be a defensive player in 2023; However his shoulder did contact DTR's helmet which resulted in the bloody lip and concussion that probably won the Broncos the game given how much worse Walker played.

Browning played that about as text book as he could but anytime there's contact with the helmet the refs are going to throw a flag

No, the bloody lip and concussion came from him landing on his face, and biting his tongue, with no mouthguard in.

I guess that's possible but the whiplash seen at the point of impact in the head area makes me think otherwise

Regardless, any time you play without a mouthguard, your risking a hit causing you to bite your tongue. IF making initial contact in the chest is now getting penalized, they are just making the logistics of playing tackle football way too hard for defenders. There are always going to be injuries in the game, and plenty on clean hits.

[abloom]

That's not really acceptable though. QB personnel foul calls alter outcome of games. If the league wants to get rid of certain hits, and to protect the QB, there has to be a better way than altering outcomes of games.

If a player makes a hit the league think is a foul, suspend him. Suspend him for the year on second offense and throw him out of the league on 3rd. Or do something else, i wouldn't care, but calling questionable personal fouls during the game is making the game hard to watch.

You can either get the bad flags or you can have review of penalties. The NFL has already shown you which way they will go with pass interference.

A bad call here or there happens. Do some alter the result of the game? Sure. But far more games are altered by better play, coaching, and play calling.

If the occasional bad call is making the game hard to watch you should probably stop watching.

Review PF calls. The roughing the passer calls aren't really all that occassional. If it's a clear miss, change it, if not, let it stand. It should only take 30 seconds, and overturn only clear oversights, because there are enough of them to warrant it. No challenges like PI, just a quick look, like they already do for fumbles, or catches that are clear misses. Easy fix.

It doesn't take 30 seconds. We've already seen what it's like when penalties like pass interference are reviewable it's not good. Coaches don't like it, players don't like it, and NFL doesn't like it.

[FantasyFreak]

You can either get the bad flags or you can have review of penalties. The NFL has already shown you which way they will go with pass interference.

A bad call here or there happens. Do some alter the result of the game? Sure. But far more games are altered by better play, coaching, and play calling.

If the occasional bad call is making the game hard to watch you should probably stop watching.

Review PF calls. The roughing the passer calls aren't really all that occassional. If it's a clear miss, change it, if not, let it stand. It should only take 30 seconds, and overturn only clear oversights, because there are enough of them to warrant it. No challenges like PI, just a quick look, like they already do for fumbles, or catches that are clear misses. Easy fix.

It doesn't take 30 seconds. We've already seen what it's like when penalties like pass interference are reviewable it's not good. Coaches don't like it, players don't like it, and NFL doesn't like it.

You're not understanding what I am saying, it's not like PI, it's clear mistakes, there are plenty of them. The NFL already overturns clear mistakes in almost no time. They just call it in. There is no replay booth watch for the officials in this case. It' takes almost no time. They just tell the ref they got it wrong, reverse the call. There a lots of calls where the defender doesn't hit the head or neck, but the ref thinks he did, because of the reaction of the player being hit. It's easy to fix in real time if the replay officials are on it, just like a clear mistake on a catch or fumble call.

[abloom]

Review PF calls. The roughing the passer calls aren't really all that occassional. If it's a clear miss, change it, if not, let it stand. It should only take 30 seconds, and overturn only clear oversights, because there are enough of them to warrant it. No challenges like PI, just a quick look, like they already do for fumbles, or catches that are clear misses. Easy fix.

It doesn't take 30 seconds. We've already seen what it's like when penalties like pass interference are reviewable it's not good. Coaches don't like it, players don't like it, and NFL doesn't like it.

You're not understanding what I am saying, it's not like PI, it's clear mistakes, there are plenty of them. The NFL already overturns clear mistakes in almost no time. They just call it in. There is no replay booth watch for the officials in this case.

And then there are the ones that take a while. Automatic reviews of turnovers and scoring has led to more default calls to touchdowns and turnovers. Some are rapidly reviewed others go to full review and then result in plays standing. You'll end up with more flags, more pauses, and not a huge difference in the number of penalties called.

[FantasyFreak]

It doesn't take 30 seconds. We've already seen what it's like when penalties like pass interference are reviewable it's not good. Coaches don't like it, players don't like it, and NFL doesn't like it.

You're not understanding what I am saying, it's not like PI, it's clear mistakes, there are plenty of them. The NFL already overturns clear mistakes in almost no time. They just call it in. There is no replay booth watch for the officials in this case.

And then there are the ones that take a while. Automatic reviews of turnovers and scoring has led to more default calls to touchdowns and turnovers. Some are rapidly reviewed others go to full review and then result in plays standing. You'll end up with more flags, more pauses, and not a huge difference in the number of penalties called.

I'm not suggesting you can challenge PF calls, like you can challenge fumbles or cathes. Just obvious mistakes the booth calls it down. That's it. No more pauses.

[abloom]

You're not understanding what I am saying, it's not like PI, it's clear mistakes, there are plenty of them. The NFL already overturns clear mistakes in almost no time. They just call it in. There is no replay booth watch for the officials in this case.

And then there are the ones that take a while. Automatic reviews of turnovers and scoring has led to more default calls to touchdowns and turnovers. Some are rapidly reviewed others go to full review and then result in plays standing. You'll end up with more flags, more pauses, and not a huge difference in the number of penalties called.

I'm not suggesting you can challenge PF calls, like you can challenge fumbles or cathes. Just obvious mistakes the booth calls it down. That's it. No more pauses.

It's going to take more time than you think. Now every time one is overturned the team will be demanding an explanation.

It takes more time for something that likely has no impact in the long run. If teams want to take the game out of the refs hands they are more than capable of doing so.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

No, the bloody lip and concussion came from him landing on his face, and biting his tongue, with no mouthguard in.

I guess that's possible but the whiplash seen at the point of impact in the head area makes me think otherwise

Regardless, any time you play without a mouthguard, your risking a hit causing you to bite your tongue. IF making initial contact in the chest is now getting penalized, they are just making the logistics of playing tackle football way too hard for defenders. There are always going to be injuries in the game, and plenty on clean hits.

The old initial contact excuse.

Back in the 80s there was a huge problem with players coming in with a swinging arm making a tackle in rugby league. Most of them would bounce off the chest and end up hitting the jaw. Arm bounced off the ball was the excuse used to escape suspension by the players at the judiciary.

Players could only be charged with intent back then. The league got sick of it and changed the rules to include careless and reckless tackles. No more initial contact excuse to excuse dangerous tackles.

After a couple of years of hefty suspensions the players got the message and swinging arms dwindled out of the game. It was too hard to use them and not hit the player in the head.

I didn't see the hit. Just seeing the term initial contact reminded me how brutal rugby league was back then before the league got rid of the initial contact loophole.