Zig While Others Zag

[Kurtrambis1]

One of the hottest names in camp right now is Luke Musgrave. All reports coming out of camp say he’s extremely fast and running with the 1s. He very well may turn out to be the next big thing at TE, but I would rather have Kraft at his ADP than Musgrave.

His two career college touchdowns really put a damper on the camp reports for me. He’s not a great blocker and isn’t great after contact. I feel he’s standing out in camp because it’s toned down without too much tackling.

Who knows if Kraft will overtake him this year because he has his own question marks but my bet long run is on Kraft.

Any other times where people went against the consensus and it worked or didn’t work?

[Bronco Billy]

One of the hottest names in camp right now is Luke Musgrave. All reports coming out of camp say he’s extremely fast and running with the 1s. He very well may turn out to be the next big thing at TE, but I would rather have Kraft at his ADP than Musgrave.

His two career college touchdowns really put a damper on the camp reports for me. He’s not a great blocker and isn’t great after contact. I feel he’s standing out in camp because it’s toned down without too much tackling.

Who knows if Kraft will overtake him this year because he has his own question marks but my bet long run is on Kraft.

Any other times where people went against the consensus and it worked or didn’t work?

Kraft will be the in-line TE and Musgrave will be the move TE. That means Kraft will be on the field in all situations while Musgrave will be used in 12 personnel similar to 3 wide and 4 wide sets. Musgrave is not a good blocker and likely never will be.

Word out so far is that both guys are doing well with Musgrave getting better initial returns. Kraft will likely have Deguara limiting him until he’s fully up to speed on NFL level blocking for TEs.

I agree with your choice of TEs in this case. I’m relatively fairly contrarian myself so I’m with you on going against the grain.

[ericanadian]

One of the hottest names in camp right now is Luke Musgrave. All reports coming out of camp say he’s extremely fast and running with the 1s. He very well may turn out to be the next big thing at TE, but I would rather have Kraft at his ADP than Musgrave.

His two career college touchdowns really put a damper on the camp reports for me. He’s not a great blocker and isn’t great after contact. I feel he’s standing out in camp because it’s toned down without too much tackling.

Who knows if Kraft will overtake him this year because he has his own question marks but my bet long run is on Kraft.

Any other times where people went against the consensus and it worked or didn’t work?

Mark Andrews over Hurst was probably the one that stood out most to me. Hurst had more draft capital, but it was mostly due to his being a more complete TE. Andrews was the receiver and who I picked up everywhere.

TE is a position where I think a lot of fantasy footballers struggle to identify talent.

[Ice]

There is something to be said for a time to Zig while others Zag..... This isn't one of those times.

Luke is a way better TE prospect and the difference between these two is significant. Are you sure you're not just smoking a bit too much of that stuff in your Zig-Zag rolling papers?

[Cameron Giles]

Mark Andrews over Hurst was probably the one that stood out most to me. Hurst had more draft capital, but it was mostly due to his being a more complete TE. Andrews was the receiver and who I picked up everywhere.

TE is a position where I think a lot of fantasy footballers struggle to identify talent.

Agreed. TE is a tough position to evaluate for fantasy, and even in the NFL. Look at how many teams spend high capital on TEs all the time and get nothing out of it.

I don't know if it's as simple as better blocker wins out, but certainly not a bad thing either.

[Kurtrambis1]

There is something to be said for a time to Zig while others Zag..... This isn't one of those times.

Luke is a way better TE prospect and the difference between these two. Are you sure you're not just smoking a bit too much of that stuff in your Zig-Zag rolling papers?

Hahaha that gave me a good chuckle. I could be regretting this in a couple years. I feel to be an elite TE in the NFL you need to secure TDS and it’s something I don’t think Musgrave does well based off college production. His injury last year will give us unknowns. But has there been a TE in the NFL who was really good who never produced in that department in college?

He reminds me more of Gesicki than anyone else.

[Ice]

There is something to be said for a time to Zig while others Zag..... This isn't one of those times.

Luke is a way better TE prospect and the difference between these two. Are you sure you're not just smoking a bit too much of that stuff in your Zig-Zag rolling papers?

Hahaha that gave me a good chuckle. I could be regretting this in a couple years. I feel to be an elite TE in the NFL you need to secure TDS and it’s something I don’t think Musgrave does well based off college production. His injury last year will give us unknowns. But has there been a TE in the NFL who was really good who never produced in that department in college?

He reminds me more of Gesicki than anyone else.

Go compare his measurable traits to Travis Kelce and you may change your tune. They are almost clones. The future of the position is away from in-line players and more to a position-less type of TE that can play slot, motion out of the backfield, play out wide, and chip block some when called on in running plays or to release on seam routes out of play action.

Musgrave may never be great like Kelce but he is exactly what teams are trying desperately to draft and develop in at the position. On a side note, college red zone schemes have ZERO to do with NFL schemes. His TD's in college mean nothing. He wasn't calling plays.

Chasing 2010 type TE's isn't a real sound strategy..... stoned or not!

[Kurtrambis1]

There is something to be said for a time to Zig while others Zag..... This isn't one of those times.

Luke is a way better TE prospect and the difference between these two. Are you sure you're not just smoking a bit too much of that stuff in your Zig-Zag rolling papers?

Hahaha that gave me a good chuckle. I could be regretting this in a couple years. I feel to be an elite TE in the NFL you need to secure TDS and it’s something I don’t think Musgrave does well based off college production. His injury last year will give us unknowns. But has there been a TE in the NFL who was really good who never produced in that department in college?

He reminds me more of Gesicki than anyone else.

Go compare his measurable traits to Travis Kelce and you may change your tune. They are almost clones. The future of the position is away from in-line players and more to a position-less type of TE that can play slot, motion out of the backfield, play out wide, and chip block some when called on in running plays or to release on seam routes out of play action.

Musgrave may never be great like Kelce but he is exactly what teams are trying desperately to draft and develop in at the position. On a side note, college red zone schemes have ZERO to do with NFL schemes. His TD's in college mean nothing. He wasn't calling plays.

Chasing 2010 type TE's isn't a real sound strategy..... stoned or not!

So I went and compared all three and I think this encapsulates common views on these two tight ends. They all have extremely close measurables. Kraft is very athletic for a TE but is just a better blocker. Musgrave is a little faster. Just because Musgrave is fast doesn’t mean Kraft isn’t.

I don’t think they’re “that” far off as everyone is making them out to be. His lack of TDs should be a big concern for those expecting him to be the next Kelce.

[mild]

His two career college touchdowns really put a damper on the camp reports for me. He’s not a great blocker and isn’t great after contact. I feel he’s standing out in camp because it’s toned down without too much tackling.

He was injured for a lot of his college career. It's kinda hard to score TD's when that's the case.

This feels like the classic "bold strategy, cotton!" meme. We'll see if it works out for you. The drumbeat is undoubtably Team Musgrave right now, and the twitter highlights all back that up. He ran almost exclusively with the 1's for the mock game.

For what it's worth - Dane Brugler (the guy that writes the Beast every year for the Athletic - a scouting report of over 400 players every year - safe to say he works hard in the scouting space) likes both players, and thinks the Packers hit the TE lottery on Day 2.

But in saying that, he's touting the Musgrave drum foremost. He's also pretty connected to the FO's.

He was drafted 10 spots away from being a 1st round pick despite missing almost all of his senior season. Your take isn't close to how NFL teams talked about him pre and post draft.

I'll happily gamble on Team Musgrave at this point, and I have. Looking forward to checking in on this thread and those zig zag joints this season!

[Kurtrambis1]

His two career college touchdowns really put a damper on the camp reports for me. He’s not a great blocker and isn’t great after contact. I feel he’s standing out in camp because it’s toned down without too much tackling.

He was injured for a lot of his college career. It's kinda hard to score TD's when that's the case.

This feels like the classic "bold strategy, cotton!" meme. We'll see if it works out for you. The drumbeat is undoubtably Team Musgrave right now, and the twitter highlights all back that up. He ran almost exclusively with the 1's for the mock game.

For what it's worth - Dane Brugler (the guy that writes the Beast every year for the Athletic - a scouting report of over 400 players every year - safe to say he works hard in the scouting space) likes both players, and thinks the Packers hit the TE lottery on Day 2.

But in saying that, he's touting the Musgrave drum foremost. He's also pretty connected to the FO's.

He was drafted 10 spots away from being a 1st round pick despite missing almost all of his senior season. Your take isn't close to how NFL teams talked about him pre and post draft.

I'll happily gamble on Team Musgrave at this point, and I have. Looking forward to checking in on this thread and those zig zag joints this season!

As my college coach used to say “availability is a skill.”

I’m excited to see it play out! It’s hard to ignore the drumbeat for Musgrave and will be happy if he succeeds. There is no denying a little drumbeat is building for Kraft too. This is a fun time of year trying to decide what are true reports and what is fluff.

[Sriracha]

His two career college touchdowns really put a damper on the camp reports for me. He’s not a great blocker and isn’t great after contact. I feel he’s standing out in camp because it’s toned down without too much tackling.

He was injured for a lot of his college career. It's kinda hard to score TD's when that's the case.

This feels like the classic "bold strategy, cotton!" meme. We'll see if it works out for you. The drumbeat is undoubtably Team Musgrave right now, and the twitter highlights all back that up. He ran almost exclusively with the 1's for the mock game.

For what it's worth - Dane Brugler (the guy that writes the Beast every year for the Athletic - a scouting report of over 400 players every year - safe to say he works hard in the scouting space) likes both players, and thinks the Packers hit the TE lottery on Day 2.

But in saying that, he's touting the Musgrave drum foremost. He's also pretty connected to the FO's.

He was drafted 10 spots away from being a 1st round pick despite missing almost all of his senior season. Your take isn't close to how NFL teams talked about him pre and post draft.

I'll happily gamble on Team Musgrave at this point, and I have. Looking forward to checking in on this thread and those zig zag joints this season!

Odds are both of these guys won't cut it in the NFL.

TE's are often hyped in training camp and fade into the ether when snaps start to matter.

It's just a very tough position to learn and scout not only for fantasy players but also the NFL.

[mild]

One of the hottest names in camp right now is Luke Musgrave. All reports coming out of camp say he’s extremely fast and running with the 1s. He very well may turn out to be the next big thing at TE, but I would rather have Kraft at his ADP than Musgrave.

His two career college touchdowns really put a damper on the camp reports for me. He’s not a great blocker and isn’t great after contact. I feel he’s standing out in camp because it’s toned down without too much tackling.

Kraft will be the in-line TE and Musgrave will be the move TE. That means Kraft will be on the field in all situations while Musgrave will be used in 12 personnel similar to 3 wide and 4 wide sets. Musgrave is not a good blocker and likely never will be.

I agree with your choice of TEs in this case. I’m relatively fairly contrarian myself so I’m with you on going against the grain.

Alright my cool guy contrarians, my Zags of the Ziggers, my renegade fantasy thought leaders...

It's admittedly early. But we now have data, and this Zag is trending towards eating a fantastically solid L.

The bolded from our Texas legend Bronco Billy suggested that Kraft would stay on the field, and Musgrave would rotate in for pass snaps.

Our early returns:

The Packers broadcast 19 team snaps of the Friends and Family game with Jordan Love under center tonight. Luke Musgrave was on the field for every single one of them.

And from the Bengals 1st Quarter just now:

For those keeping track, that's 100% of snaps with the starters, 3 targets including a screen and leak, some motion, and getting detached from the OL for Luke Musgrave. Tucker Kraft is on special teams.

It's on. #TeamMusgrave all the way, baby.

[Ice]

@ Kurtrambis1

"You can lead a horse to water......."

The kid was cocked 20MPH at the Senior Bowl. The packers stole him. Why Pass; Draft Musgrave and pick up your blocking special team player on the waiver wire!

[81-]

I can see Musgrave getting five/six dump offs a game for 20-60 yards and the occasional score this year.

Who knows what he grows into, but I believe he was the 14th offensive skill position player in the NFL draft.

If I could find a roster spot, he'd be my third waiver wire scoop

[Kurtrambis1]

@ Kurtrambis1

"You can lead a horse to water......."

The kid was cocked 20MPH at the Senior Bowl. The packers stole him. Why Pass; Draft Musgrave and pick up your blocking special team player on the waiver wire!

I'm holding strong till I die!

Didn't see the game but it seems he was heavily involved from all the reports. I'm ready to be gracious if Musgrave becomes the next hot thing, but I need more time for Kraft!