Zay Flowers official thread

[Ice]

The real problem with L. Treadwell errrr Zay Flowers is going to be targets.

The Ravens passing attempt /Rushing yards per game ranking since the greatest running QB of all time was drafted. Rushing yards per game ranking in ( )

2018 17th (2nd)
2019 29th (1st)
2020 32nd (1st)
2021 9th (3rd)
2022 28th (3rd)

The Ravens should/will pass more this season with the new system but I wouldn't be making too many predictions they will go crazy given they run so effectively. This team is also very good with a lead. On a side note; their QB has only had 7 come from behind 4th quarter game winning drives.

[Ruggenater]

On a side note; their QB has only had 7 come from behind 4th quarter game winning drives.

How many do you expect him to have when he’s winning close to 75% of the regular season games he plays?

[Sriracha]

To the Lamar passing skeptics, what specifically do you not like about his passing ability?

*BUZZ* What is everything, Bob.

It's more that he just doesn't look to pass because he has his legs as a backup. So instead of trusting his receivers/his arm he bows out and runs. So there's a certain lack of trust going into predictions. Billy B is correct. He's not going to instantly become a top passing QB overnight. But Cameron also hit the right spot in that he's going to be given all the tools in order to achieve maximum passing yardage this year (new O scheme, new WR, etc).

That's really not what I see.

Lamar has transitioned to a QB who exhausts all of his passing options before he runs for the past couple of years. The lack of weapons in this offense has made him play worse because of it.. given the lack of receiving talent he's had to deal with because of injuries the run first mentality probably would've helped his productivity last year.

When you say "everything"? Do you think he has no arm strength, doesn't have a wide array of throwing angles or a quick release, as well?

On a side note; their QB has only had 7 come from behind 4th quarter game winning drives.

Lamar has the 2nd highest come from behind (when facing 10+ point deficit) career win rate in the NFL behind only mahomes at just over 30%

[Anteaters]

Lamar has the 2nd highest come from behind (when facing 10+ point deficit) win rate in the NFL behind only mahomes at just over 30%

Well, damn. When you put it like that and use facts and logic and everything, it kind of makes Lamar seem like a pretty good QB.

[Ice]

On a side note; their QB has only had 7 come from behind 4th quarter game winning drives.

How many do you expect him to have when he’s winning close to 75% of the regular season games he plays?

That wasn't a dig at all, it was a simple fact. They play with a lead and run the air out of the ball. Now many are thinking He will be throwing for 5K when they are one of the very best running teams on planet earth. That doesn't make a lot of sense. He may be capable of a 5K season but it will come at the expense of what they actually excel at doing.

I know full well Mahomes has 13 over that span but it is a very different offense and he plays an entirely different type of game.

I find it amazing so few link concepts together. It's not always a fight when FACTS are mentioned.

[Sriracha]

On a side note; their QB has only had 7 come from behind 4th quarter game winning drives.

How many do you expect him to have when he’s winning close to 75% of the regular season games he plays?

That wasn't a dig at all, it was a simple fact. They play with a lead and run the air out of the ball. Now many are thinking He will be throwing for 5K when they are one of the very best running teams on planet earth. That doesn't make a lot of sense. He may be capable of a 5K season but it will come at the expense of what they actually excel at doing.

I know full well Mahomes has 13 over that span but it is a very different offense and he plays an entirely different type of game.

I find it amazing so few link concepts together. It's not always a fight when FACTS are mentioned.

I believe the question at hand here isn't whether or not the Ravens excel at running the ball.. it's whether or not they can also excel passing it.

Based on the allocation of resources they've put into the passing game and the philosophy change brought in the when they replaced Greg Roman with Todd Monken the expectation is they're going to move to a more pass oriented attack in 2023.

The run oriented attack can only take you so far in today's NFL and it appears they're trying to better adhere to the traditional NFL offenses going forward.

[Ice]

How many do you expect him to have when he’s winning close to 75% of the regular season games he plays?

That wasn't a dig at all, it was a simple fact. They play with a lead and run the air out of the ball. Now many are thinking He will be throwing for 5K when they are one of the very best running teams on planet earth. That doesn't make a lot of sense. He may be capable of a 5K season but it will come at the expense of what they actually excel at doing.

I know full well Mahomes has 13 over that span but it is a very different offense and he plays an entirely different type of game.

I find it amazing so few link concepts together. It's not always a fight when FACTS are mentioned.

I believe the question at hand here isn't whether or not the Ravens excel at running the ball.. it's whether or not they can also excel passing it.

Based on the allocation of resources they've put into the passing game and the philosophy change brought in the when they replaced Greg Roman with Todd Monken the expectation is they're going to move to a more pass oriented attack in 2023.

The run oriented attack can only take you so far in today's NFL and it appears they're trying to better adhere to the traditional NFL offenses going forward.

So you can answer that question.

1) The Ravens, in their 27 year history, have yet draft even 1 Pro Bowl WR.

2) Lamar is in rarefied air with 2 Perfect Passer Rating on his resume so it is straight up foolish to think he can't pass the ball. It is also obvious he can run it better than anyone in the game.

We all know the team is going to try to open up and balance out the offense. That is not a question but teams play to their strengths first.

The claims of 5K seem rather mushroom high like given he has never threw for 3200 yards in a season and he has been playing 12 games per year for two straight years.

Maybe setting sights on getting through a season and 4K first makes some sense to at least give him a shot at top 10 passing yards. 9 hit 4k plus last season.

[Sriracha]

That wasn't a dig at all, it was a simple fact. They play with a lead and run the air out of the ball. Now many are thinking He will be throwing for 5K when they are one of the very best running teams on planet earth. That doesn't make a lot of sense. He may be capable of a 5K season but it will come at the expense of what they actually excel at doing.

I know full well Mahomes has 13 over that span but it is a very different offense and he plays an entirely different type of game.

I find it amazing so few link concepts together. It's not always a fight when FACTS are mentioned.

I believe the question at hand here isn't whether or not the Ravens excel at running the ball.. it's whether or not they can also excel passing it.

Based on the allocation of resources they've put into the passing game and the philosophy change brought in the when they replaced Greg Roman with Todd Monken the expectation is they're going to move to a more pass oriented attack in 2023.

The run oriented attack can only take you so far in today's NFL and it appears they're trying to better adhere to the traditional NFL offenses going forward.

So you can answer that question.

1) The Ravens, in their 27 year history, have yet draft even 1 Pro Bowl WR.

2) Lamar is in rarefied air with 2 Perfect Passer Rating on his resume so it is straight up foolish to think he can't pass the ball. It is also obvious he can run it better than anyone in the game.

We all know the team is going to try to open up and balance out the offense. That is not a question but teams play to their strengths first.

The claims of 5K seem rather mushroom high like given he has never threw for 3200 yards in a season and he has been playing 12 games per year for two straight years.

Maybe setting sights on getting through a season and 4K first makes some sense to at least give him a shot at top 10 passing yards. 9 hit 4k plus last season.

5k is definitely an ambitious goal.

I’d expect somewhere around 4k

[mild]

Maybe setting sights on getting through a season and 4K first makes some sense to at least give him a shot at top 10 passing yards. 9 hit 4k plus last season.

What I'm hearing here is "buy Lamar"

If he did have Top 10 passing numbers coupled with even a diminished version of his Rushing (there's just no way he won't still break a big one if he sees an opening)

Then he is set for a -monster- fantasy season.

I really like Flowers btw. Prior to the draft some analysts had him as their WR1. I'm really excited to see what he does for Lamar and this Raven's offense.

[Pullo Vision]

I used to be a strong Flowers proponent but I’ve cooled on him quite a bit after looking a lot more closely at him. His size is clearly an issue and when DBs get their hands on him they completely disrupt his routes. There aren’t a whole lot of successful WRs where the majority of CBs are significantly bigger than them. Between his size and his short wingspan he does not win 50/50 balls often. He has way too many drops. He does not do a good job identifying zone coverage and sitting in a hole - that’s a real health concern as he’ll get blasted running through zones when the ball is delivered his way. Lastly he’ll be almost literally no factor in the run game, which is BAL’s bread and butter.

There are some very real positives in his game, but those negatives make me wonder how low his ceiling is in the NFL, and given his ADP there are other guys that fit the pro game better that I can draft later. I do understand why people see upside in him and are hoping he’ll work his way through at least some of those negatives.

He had a 50% catch rate (edit- in contested catches) last year. On the drop rate, a podcast on Diontae Johnson dismissed his history of higher drop dates, stating that the NFL doesn't put as much stock in that compared to fantasy enthusiasts. Was an interesting argument.

I see Zay as a floor play, and believe he was drafted knowing his strengths and weaknesses. I expect he'll be used to match his abilities.

[Bronco Billy]

2) Lamar is in rarefied air with 2 Perfect Passer Rating on his resume so it is straight up foolish to think he can't pass the ball. It is also obvious he can run it better than anyone in the game.

Geez. In 2 games 4 years ago where he threw 20 and 17 passes respectively. C’mon. And then you’re insulting people when they state how mediocre of a passer he is - which his game play and stats both support.

How is it that he hasn’t improved as a passer since that time? Since you’re a fan of QB ratings, how is it that his QB rating has gone down significantly since that time? As has his completion percentage, ypa, TD rate, yards per completion, passing 1st downs. The only meaningful passing stat that has gone up over the following 3 years has been his interception rate.

[mild]

How is it that he hasn’t improved as a passer since that time?

He has. You just need to use your eyes. It's not in the stats, it's in the mechanics and it's in the decision making. Even a quick skimming of the film between Lamar's early years vs. what he has been asked to do more recently should easily make it jump out to you - it's less curated gadget offense, and it's more full-field reads.

You don't need to take my word for it (which is good, because you won't) - here's a literal NFL QB (and professional film grinder) breaking down his tape after Week 1 and Week 3 of the 2022 season year. He even named it "Lamar is on that MVP path... again". That's how hot Lamar started last year before the offense fell apart around him. This man can make the f--king throws.

Lamar has legitimately been making strides as a passer in consecutive years. He now gets the personnel to match, with a pass-heavy OC in Monken, and probably the best WR corps that the Ravens have... ever (?) had.

It needs to gel, and it's all health dependant - like any other room in the league. But this thing could really hit the ground running this year - and it will not be to my surprise, but perhaps to yours...?

If Lamar and all his WR's play 90% of games, I would happily wager the 4K+ mark.

[MFundercover]

My eyes say Lamar has improved as a passer but is still inconsistent. When hes on, it's a thing of beauty.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

He’s my WR1 in this class. His film was so incredibly good that I can look past the size (which these days isn’t even that small) and the fact that he’s a senior.

[Sriracha]

He’s my WR1 in this class. His film was so incredibly good that I can look past the size (which these days isn’t even that small) and the fact that he’s a senior.

I wanted to like his tape but I saw surprisingly little separation for a guy his size who’s coming out as a Senior.

His YAC is crazy and he does play big at the catch point but I’m kind of surprised he’s getting as much hype as he has.

Still, a good player but considering a lot of people have him ahead of QJ because of his bust potential I don’t see him as a significantly safer player