Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
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Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
I have this full rebuild team in my signature and another owner wants Christian Watson and wants to move Saquon Barkley. This doesn’t really fit the build, but considering something if there’s value to be gained. Anybody have any ideas on what might be a good add to get this done?
And has Saquon been pretty tradable at his relative ADP value this offseason if I need to flip him?
And has Saquon been pretty tradable at his relative ADP value this offseason if I need to flip him?
12 Team Superflex Best Ball PPR TEP +1.5
QB: Lawrence, Kyler Murray, O’Connell
RB: Gibbs, Etienne, Javonte Williams, Chase Brown
WR: London, Tank Dell, Pickens JSN, Michael Wilson, Quentin Johnston
TE: McBride, Dulcich
QB: Lawrence, Kyler Murray, O’Connell
RB: Gibbs, Etienne, Javonte Williams, Chase Brown
WR: London, Tank Dell, Pickens JSN, Michael Wilson, Quentin Johnston
TE: McBride, Dulcich
- Gator Sens
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
I am not a C. Watson fan or believer and his TD saving upside took a huge hit with Love. In a rebuild though, I would want to see flipping options up front for Barkley before making this deal depending on the add.
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
I love Gator - but I have to pushback on this take. If you can add something not too big to Watson (random 1st or less) and net Saquon, do it instantly
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
/
TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
/
TEAM C - 14T, SF (Joined in 22)
GENO
HENRY/A JONES, Gus E
HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
/
TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
BIJAN/BREECE/POLLARD
CHASE/DIGGS/G WILSON/AIYUK, DJM, Pittman
KITTLE, Goedert
/
TEAM E - 14T, SF, 2TE (Started in 22)
MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
/
TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
/
TEAM G - 12T, SF & TEP (Joined in 23)
HERBERT/TUA, Kyler
BIJAN/MIXON, Spears, J Warren
JJ/G WILSON/WADDLE/OLAVE, Godwin, J Reed
LAPORTA
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
/
TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
/
TEAM C - 14T, SF (Joined in 22)
GENO
HENRY/A JONES, Gus E
HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
/
TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
BIJAN/BREECE/POLLARD
CHASE/DIGGS/G WILSON/AIYUK, DJM, Pittman
KITTLE, Goedert
/
TEAM E - 14T, SF, 2TE (Started in 22)
MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
/
TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
/
TEAM G - 12T, SF & TEP (Joined in 23)
HERBERT/TUA, Kyler
BIJAN/MIXON, Spears, J Warren
JJ/G WILSON/WADDLE/OLAVE, Godwin, J Reed
LAPORTA
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
I should have clarified, I do prefer Barkley here depending on the add but I would also want to know flipping options in case a quick flip is an option to really help long term. Either way though, I prefer Barkley.lukkynumber13 wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:11 pm I love Gator - but I have to pushback on this take. If you can add something not too big to Watson (random 1st or less) and net Saquon, do it instantly
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
How would you go about finding out flipping options? If asking other owners about their interest in Barkley, I always figured they would just go straight to the Barkley ownerGator Sens wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:17 pmI should have clarified, I do prefer Barkley here depending on the add but I would also want to know flipping options in case a quick flip is an option to really help long term. Either way though, I prefer Barkley.lukkynumber13 wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:11 pm I love Gator - but I have to pushback on this take. If you can add something not too big to Watson (random 1st or less) and net Saquon, do it instantly
12 Team Superflex Best Ball PPR TEP +1.5
QB: Lawrence, Kyler Murray, O’Connell
RB: Gibbs, Etienne, Javonte Williams, Chase Brown
WR: London, Tank Dell, Pickens JSN, Michael Wilson, Quentin Johnston
TE: McBride, Dulcich
QB: Lawrence, Kyler Murray, O’Connell
RB: Gibbs, Etienne, Javonte Williams, Chase Brown
WR: London, Tank Dell, Pickens JSN, Michael Wilson, Quentin Johnston
TE: McBride, Dulcich
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
I guess it's different league to league but if Barkley is not available openly, you could ask other managers if you trade for Barkley, do they have interest on a flip? In one of my leagues, there has been this type of practice because usually an overpay is needed to make a deal with certain managers so usually the player hoping to be flipped has not been available. Sorry, I am not sure if my explanation is coming out right ha ha.Bulletproof wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:28 pmHow would you go about finding out flipping options? If asking other owners about their interest in Barkley, I always figured they would just go straight to the Barkley ownerGator Sens wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:17 pmI should have clarified, I do prefer Barkley here depending on the add but I would also want to know flipping options in case a quick flip is an option to really help long term. Either way though, I prefer Barkley.lukkynumber13 wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:11 pm I love Gator - but I have to pushback on this take. If you can add something not too big to Watson (random 1st or less) and net Saquon, do it instantly
Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
In a full rebuild if I was going to get Barkley, it would only be to turn him around again quickly to get stronger.
Team 1
Dynasty 10 team, 22 roster + 6 Taxi, PPR
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 Flex, 1 TE, K, Def
QB: Love, Goff, Fields
RB: Bijan, Montgomery, Kamara, Ford, K Herbert, Zeke, Mattison
WR: Jefferson, Olave, London, Ridley, Sutton, Shaheed
TE: Kincaid, Kittle, Freiermuth
K: Tucker, Sanders
DEF: CLE
Taxi: Charbs, K Mitchell, Demercado, QJ, D Douglas, W Robinson, Hooker
Picks
2024: 1.03, 3.06, 3.09, 4.09
2025: 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Team 2
Dynasty 10 team, 22 man roster + 6 Taxi, PPR, SF and TEP
1QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, 1 S Flex
QB: Allen, Goff, Watson, Jones
RB: K Williams, B Robinson, Chubb, Ford, Mostert, A Gibson, Dillon, Pierce, Zeke
WR: Olave, T Hill, Addison, D Adams, C Watson, D Johnson, G Davis, OBJ
TE: Kincaid, Kmet, Goedert
Taxi: Willis, DTR, Mims, K Miller, Demercado, Vaughn
Picks
2024: 1.08, 2.02
2025: 1, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5
Dynasty 10 team, 22 roster + 6 Taxi, PPR
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 Flex, 1 TE, K, Def
QB: Love, Goff, Fields
RB: Bijan, Montgomery, Kamara, Ford, K Herbert, Zeke, Mattison
WR: Jefferson, Olave, London, Ridley, Sutton, Shaheed
TE: Kincaid, Kittle, Freiermuth
K: Tucker, Sanders
DEF: CLE
Taxi: Charbs, K Mitchell, Demercado, QJ, D Douglas, W Robinson, Hooker
Picks
2024: 1.03, 3.06, 3.09, 4.09
2025: 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Team 2
Dynasty 10 team, 22 man roster + 6 Taxi, PPR, SF and TEP
1QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, 1 S Flex
QB: Allen, Goff, Watson, Jones
RB: K Williams, B Robinson, Chubb, Ford, Mostert, A Gibson, Dillon, Pierce, Zeke
WR: Olave, T Hill, Addison, D Adams, C Watson, D Johnson, G Davis, OBJ
TE: Kincaid, Kmet, Goedert
Taxi: Willis, DTR, Mims, K Miller, Demercado, Vaughn
Picks
2024: 1.08, 2.02
2025: 1, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
its risky because they can indeed do what you said and just go ask what the current price is on barkley and might wanna deal direct.Bulletproof wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:28 pmHow would you go about finding out flipping options? If asking other owners about their interest in Barkley, I always figured they would just go straight to the Barkley ownerGator Sens wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:17 pmI should have clarified, I do prefer Barkley here depending on the add but I would also want to know flipping options in case a quick flip is an option to really help long term. Either way though, I prefer Barkley.lukkynumber13 wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 8:11 pm I love Gator - but I have to pushback on this take. If you can add something not too big to Watson (random 1st or less) and net Saquon, do it instantly
what pieces do you have to add to watson? what have you been considering?
team 1
12 team, 1 pt for 4 rec, 0.1 per rush
1qb, 3 rb, 4 wr, te, k, 4 idp
Dak , Herbert
Achane, Breece Hall, KW3Kyren,Ford, Miller, Spiller, z evans, singletary
J Jefferson, Diggs, DK, D Smith Puka, C Watson, E Moore
Njoku , HH, Engram
2024 picks
1,3,4,5,5,6,7 (all late mostly)
team 2
12 team .5ppr
qb, 2 rb, 2 wr, te, flx,flx,
Fields, Dak
Ford,Mixon, Javonte, Mostert, Chubb, Spears
Hopkins, Evans, g Wilson Mingo, shaheed, Jamo
Kelce,McBride, Chig,
1,2,3,3,5
team 3
14 team sf, even scoring idp to offense (rb scores highly too)
Josh Allen, A Rich, Foles, Rudolph
Bijan, Charbs, Spears, Ebner
J Williams, G Wilson, C Watson, Flowers, J Addison, Tillman
Kincaid, Kolar, Ruckert, Fergeson
Kenny Clark, josh allen, jaelen phillips, felix a-u and a bunch of fluff and rookie fliers at idp
12 team, 1 pt for 4 rec, 0.1 per rush
1qb, 3 rb, 4 wr, te, k, 4 idp
Dak , Herbert
Achane, Breece Hall, KW3Kyren,Ford, Miller, Spiller, z evans, singletary
J Jefferson, Diggs, DK, D Smith Puka, C Watson, E Moore
Njoku , HH, Engram
2024 picks
1,3,4,5,5,6,7 (all late mostly)
team 2
12 team .5ppr
qb, 2 rb, 2 wr, te, flx,flx,
Fields, Dak
Ford,Mixon, Javonte, Mostert, Chubb, Spears
Hopkins, Evans, g Wilson Mingo, shaheed, Jamo
Kelce,McBride, Chig,
1,2,3,3,5
team 3
14 team sf, even scoring idp to offense (rb scores highly too)
Josh Allen, A Rich, Foles, Rudolph
Bijan, Charbs, Spears, Ebner
J Williams, G Wilson, C Watson, Flowers, J Addison, Tillman
Kincaid, Kolar, Ruckert, Fergeson
Kenny Clark, josh allen, jaelen phillips, felix a-u and a bunch of fluff and rookie fliers at idp
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
I was in trade talks while I was OTC @ 1.04 a few days ago (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235549)
The owner offered me Saquon + M.Evans for the pick (via DM). Before I could accept, he dealt Saquon to someone else...for Christian Watson...straight up
I then went to that owner yesterday and bought Saquon from him for DJM + Rachaad White
Not sure if this helps with your big-picture valuation of Saquon. He has been pretty tradeable. He's gone very cheap in this particular league, though I think most on this forum (and the dynasty community as a whole) would agree that both of those deals were light for SB
The owner offered me Saquon + M.Evans for the pick (via DM). Before I could accept, he dealt Saquon to someone else...for Christian Watson...straight up
I then went to that owner yesterday and bought Saquon from him for DJM + Rachaad White
Not sure if this helps with your big-picture valuation of Saquon. He has been pretty tradeable. He's gone very cheap in this particular league, though I think most on this forum (and the dynasty community as a whole) would agree that both of those deals were light for SB
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
He initially asked for Watson and my 2024 1st which I rejected. So, just considering what could be a fair counter offer and if Saquon is flippable
Thanks for all the feedback
Thanks for all the feedback
12 Team Superflex Best Ball PPR TEP +1.5
QB: Lawrence, Kyler Murray, O’Connell
RB: Gibbs, Etienne, Javonte Williams, Chase Brown
WR: London, Tank Dell, Pickens JSN, Michael Wilson, Quentin Johnston
TE: McBride, Dulcich
QB: Lawrence, Kyler Murray, O’Connell
RB: Gibbs, Etienne, Javonte Williams, Chase Brown
WR: London, Tank Dell, Pickens JSN, Michael Wilson, Quentin Johnston
TE: McBride, Dulcich
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
I think Watson + 2nd is a reasonable counter. If he's TE-needy maybe work in Engram with a 3rd coming back.Bulletproof wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:18 am He initially asked for Watson and my 2024 1st which I rejected. So, just considering what could be a fair counter offer and if Saquon is flippable
Thanks for all the feedback
Saquon is worth acquiring because he probably nets you more of a return in-season while he's producing. But if your trade partner won't budge off Watson+1st value, then you're approaching what you'd hope to flip SB for anyway, so hold unless he comes down on price
Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
Has the other owner tried shopping Barkley to others? Barkley only has value to you if you can move him.Bulletproof wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 7:05 pm I have this full rebuild team in my signature and another owner wants Christian Watson and wants to move Saquon Barkley. This doesn’t really fit the build, but considering something if there’s value to be gained. Anybody have any ideas on what might be a good add to get this done?
And has Saquon been pretty tradable at his relative ADP value this offseason if I need to flip him?
Dlf trade analyzer has a pretty significant gap between perceived values for Watson and Barkley (24 1st+). As a rebuilder I wouldn't be moving a 24 1st for Barkley.
If you want to make the move for value, I'd offer as little as possible to Watson, or just be willing to walk away.
Team #1: 2nd place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K
Q: Kyler, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens
T: Kelce, Goedert
D: nyj
K: Sanders
Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K
Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson
R: Swift, Walker, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE
Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F
Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson
Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =0004&O=01
Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =07&F=0009
Team #6 orphan
https://www46.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =0013&O=07
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K
Q: Kyler, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens
T: Kelce, Goedert
D: nyj
K: Sanders
Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K
Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson
R: Swift, Walker, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE
Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F
Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson
Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =0004&O=01
Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =07&F=0009
Team #6 orphan
https://www46.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =0013&O=07
Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
Do you have a reason to believe that he hasn't shopped saquon to contenders? Do other contenders have assets you could use?Bulletproof wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 7:18 am He initially asked for Watson and my 2024 1st which I rejected. So, just considering what could be a fair counter offer and if Saquon is flippable
Thanks for all the feedback
These are trades that are league specific.
Team #1: 2nd place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K
Q: Kyler, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens
T: Kelce, Goedert
D: nyj
K: Sanders
Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K
Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson
R: Swift, Walker, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE
Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F
Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson
Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =0004&O=01
Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =07&F=0009
Team #6 orphan
https://www46.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =0013&O=07
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K
Q: Kyler, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens
T: Kelce, Goedert
D: nyj
K: Sanders
Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K
Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson
R: Swift, Walker, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE
Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F
Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson
Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =0004&O=01
Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =07&F=0009
Team #6 orphan
https://www46.myfantasyleague.com/2024/ ... =0013&O=07
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Re: Christian Watson + ? = Saquon
I think the Watson believers are going to be let down. Love believers too. I’m selling (have sold) all packers at this point except where I can’t get a decent deal.
Barkley by a lot for me.
Barkley by a lot for me.
T.1 - 12 team Superflex- 1xQB - 2xRB - 3xWR - 1xTE - 1xSFlex (13th year) ‘21&’22 champ
QB: Mahomes, Burrow, Stafford,
RB: Mixon, Henry, zeke, Rochon
WR: Godwin, Olave, Deebo,DJM, Dell, MW, Doubs
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Musgrave
T.2 - 12 team Superflex- 1xQB - 2xRB - 3xWR - 1xTE - 1xSFlex - 1xWRT Flex (10th year)
QB: Burrow, Baker,Jameis, jimmy, Wentz,
RB: Saquon, Mixon, Rochon, Evans
WR: Pickens, QJ, Thielen, Arob, Juju, ODB, D. Parker, Osborn,
TE: Kincaid, Ertz, Freirmuth, Taysom, JWoods
T.3 - 12 team Superflex- 1xQB - 2xRB - 3xWR - 1xTE - 1xSFlex - 1xWRT Flex (3rd year) ‘21&’22 champ
QB: Mahomes, Burrow, Winston, Darnald
RB: JT, Javonte,Sanders, JCook, Jamaal
WR: Godwin, Waddle, ARSB, Pittman, MW, Jameson, Zay, Claypool, Toney, Terrance
TE: Hock, Fant, McBride
QB: Mahomes, Burrow, Stafford,
RB: Mixon, Henry, zeke, Rochon
WR: Godwin, Olave, Deebo,DJM, Dell, MW, Doubs
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Musgrave
T.2 - 12 team Superflex- 1xQB - 2xRB - 3xWR - 1xTE - 1xSFlex - 1xWRT Flex (10th year)
QB: Burrow, Baker,Jameis, jimmy, Wentz,
RB: Saquon, Mixon, Rochon, Evans
WR: Pickens, QJ, Thielen, Arob, Juju, ODB, D. Parker, Osborn,
TE: Kincaid, Ertz, Freirmuth, Taysom, JWoods
T.3 - 12 team Superflex- 1xQB - 2xRB - 3xWR - 1xTE - 1xSFlex - 1xWRT Flex (3rd year) ‘21&’22 champ
QB: Mahomes, Burrow, Winston, Darnald
RB: JT, Javonte,Sanders, JCook, Jamaal
WR: Godwin, Waddle, ARSB, Pittman, MW, Jameson, Zay, Claypool, Toney, Terrance
TE: Hock, Fant, McBride
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