James Cook

[Ice]

I remember a bunch of us liked CEH situation just like people like Moore’s, or Pickens today.

My take is Cook has the clearest path to quality touches. He should get a ton of receptions and plenty of carries as a rookie.

Are you saying that Cook has a clearer path to touches than Moore or Pickens? Production aside, I don't see this as even remotely possible.

That’s exactly what I am saying, Between Rushing and Receiving Cook should get more touches easily.

[Cameron Giles]

Most of those guys had careers. I don’t think the debate is whether he flames out, but rather the ability for him to be a high quality fantasy producer. As a good pass catcher in a good O he can. But, he isn’t a guy I see as a RB1 caliber player. He could put up a RB1 season, but he’s more of the Vereen type than a guy who will get regular workload and goal line opportunity. He’s more CEH than Kamara/CMC (not elite talent, and more situation).

Vereen is a very reasonable expectation in terms of result. Maybe even 2017 Duke Johnson.

Backs like this are a dime a dozen though.

[j4pac]

Most of those guys had careers. I don’t think the debate is whether he flames out, but rather the ability for him to be a high quality fantasy producer. As a good pass catcher in a good O he can. But, he isn’t a guy I see as a RB1 caliber player. He could put up a RB1 season, but he’s more of the Vereen type than a guy who will get regular workload and goal line opportunity. He’s more CEH than Kamara/CMC (not elite talent, and more situation).

Vereen is a very reasonable expectation in terms of result. Maybe even 2017 Duke Johnson.

Backs like this are a dime a dozen though.

If Cook wasnt drafted in the 2nd round by the Bills or didn’t have the last name Cook, where would he get drafted in dynasty? I honestly think that he would go about where Anthony McFarland was drafted in dynasty. He’s a solid receiver…but typically highly productive receiving backs can break tackles. I’m just not convinced that he will be slipping tackles at the NFL level. That’s really the difference between Shane Vereen and Alvin Kamara/Dalvin Cook/McCaffrey.

[murphysxm]

That’s exactly what I am saying, Between Rushing and Receiving Cook should get more touches easily.

Let’s mark this and see who gets to take the victory lap

[Ice]

Most of those guys had careers. I don’t think the debate is whether he flames out, but rather the ability for him to be a high quality fantasy producer. As a good pass catcher in a good O he can. But, he isn’t a guy I see as a RB1 caliber player. He could put up a RB1 season, but he’s more of the Vereen type than a guy who will get regular workload and goal line opportunity. He’s more CEH than Kamara/CMC (not elite talent, and more situation).

Vereen is a very reasonable expectation in terms of result. Maybe even 2017 Duke Johnson.

Backs like this are a dime a dozen though.

If Cook wasnt drafted in the 2nd round by the Bills or didn’t have the last name Cook, where would he get drafted in dynasty? I honestly think that he would go about where Anthony McFarland was drafted in dynasty. He’s a solid receiver…but typically highly productive receiving backs can break tackles. I’m just not convinced that he will be slipping tackles at the NFL level. That’s really the difference between Shane Vereen and Alvin Kamara/Dalvin Cook/McCaffrey.

Cook was drafted not because of his name but because of the process.

He has great tape that show speed burst, quickness, hands, and vision.

He had a great season on the best college team in the country.

Obviously there is no telling on hypothetical situations.

That said, drafting for fantasy is all about one’s view of talent and situation. Most of us I would think would place some value on pedigree as players that have family most likely get an inside perspective on what it really takes.

[ericanadian]

I guess what gives me pause here is that all the guys being thrown out as comparables (Vereen, Duke, CEH, etc), while similar size each ran the 40 at about a full tenth of a second slower than Cook did. That’s significant for big play capability.

Now, Cook could struggle to stay healthy either way and I think that’s the biggest hurdle here (even with CMC it’s been a fairly major problem), but I think the difference between a 4.4 back and a 4.5 back is pretty significant in terms of big play ability.

Skyy Moore should be having glowing reviews before the pads come on. That’s his game. Pickens may be having great reviews, but he is still the number three receiver on a team with Mitch Trubisky as the projected starter in the short term and Kenny Pickett as the projected starter in the long term. They also pretty heavily targetted their RB and TE. Even if you’re certain that Diontae is on the way out, I’m not sure I’m getting excited about the number two receiver on that offense.

Anyways, we’ll see, but I’d be pretty happy to have Cook at the back of the top ten as I probably give him a slight edge on guys like Pickens, Moore, Pierce and Watson. I liked Metchie more than those guys too prior to the cancer diagnosis, so maybe I’m just low on them.

[killer_of_giants]

i was a bit bored by weight, ypc, injury probability and draft capital discussion, so i went back to watch some game cutouts.

cook has good vision, quick feet and fluid cuts. fast and good acceleration. behind a (very?) good line he should be able to run inside the tackles in the nfl, but won't create much on his own. good receiver, mostly in the backfield or flat, sometimes lined out wide and burning a defender, usually a linebacker. good hands, but on the whole not exactly wowing.

my issue with cook, and it's a huge one, is that if you can touch him, you can tackle him. funk, if you blow hard enough you could probably tackle him (stealing already from watson's book of parlour lines, apparently it's no big deal).
i just cannot have high hopes of fantasy success for a RB that can get hand-tackled at college level. he's fast (not crazy fast though), but his elusiveness in the open field is not good at all. he either grossly outruns his man (fast enough to make it happen... sometimes) or gets tackled.

i can certainly see him having a good nfl role with some very good games, while being a somewhat risky flex option for fantasy (maybe less risky in ppr). i don't see a very high ceiling for him, a couple of mid/low RB2 seasons is the most i would expect, and i have doubts on the floor. which makes for an interesting late 1st in most drafts. in this particular draft, i'll put my chips on 7/9 WRs before cook (may vary depending on team specifics). so yeah, late 1st seems about right, and if someone finds half of the top WRs not exciting and drafts him in the mid of the 1st, great. top 5 seems too much of a reach, but i'm the one who thought swift was a bum and a one-trick pony, so there is that.

[remedy29]

So the 13th drafted WR, from a small school, is obviously a better prospect than the 3rd RB drafted by a team who targeted him in the second round?

That sounds completely illogical.

Has a second round drafted RB ever been so disregarded in dynasty rookie drafts???

This was a very strong WR class. 13 WRs were drafted in the first two rounds, which is up there for the most ever. This was a 2-man RB class and overall a weak group. No first rounders, only 3 went in the Top 64.

It's not that I'm saying Cook sucks; I'm saying that I wouldn't pass on an extremely productive WR to draft a complimentary RB who doesn't have a history of being anything more and his athletic profile is just ok.

To pass on Moore or Pickens for a RB, I need someone who at least has a decent chance of being a lead back and has done it before.

I disagree with the notion that 2022 is a very strong draft class for WR. In 2020, 13 WRs were drafted in the first 2 rounds. In 2021 10 were and in 2022 13 were. The 3 years prior (and probably many more) were under 10 WRs drafted in the top 2 rounds. Clearly, the trend in the NFL is to draft WRs out of team need and the changing of the NFL to an extreme passing game, not to mention the increase cost to keep veteran WRs once they are up for a new contract. The fact that 13 teams identified a need at WR and drafted a WR in 2022 does not make the 2022 draft class strong at WR.

I have the 3rd pick in one league and I am likely looking at my choice at WR. Probably going with London. I can't decide, I can't turn to consensus, because consensus can't decide and I am not all that excited with drafting any of them with a top pick.

I also drafted 11th in another league and drafted Skyy Moore as the 7th WR off the board (James Cook was already gone). I like Skyy Moore, I put him in a tier with many of the other WRs. But I did not pass on 5 WRs drafted ahead of him because this is a strong WR class, I passed on them because it is a deep/mediocre WR class. I choose Moore situation, plus I have Mahomes, over the other WRs.

I also disagree with passing on James Cook because he is a complimentary RB. They are all complimentary RBs. Give me the complimentary pass catching RB in PPR all day with a mid to late 1st rookie pick over mediocre WRs. Yes position scarcity has plenty to do with it, as was mentioned, but the positional scarcity alone is worth the draft pick over mediocre WRs.

After 12 teams (one of the most ever in the top 2 rounds) drafted a WR and passed on Skyy Moore, if it wasn't for KC with a huge need at WR, Moore may have been a 3rd round WR, as it was he was pretty close to Round 3. I am just saying, that guy should not be clearly above James Cook in dynasty drafts. If anything, he should be in the same tier with 50/50 leagues picking Cook ahead of him, which actually appears to be the case in real drafts.

[Cameron Giles]

So the 13th drafted WR, from a small school, is obviously a better prospect than the 3rd RB drafted by a team who targeted him in the second round?

That sounds completely illogical.

Has a second round drafted RB ever been so disregarded in dynasty rookie drafts???

This was a very strong WR class. 13 WRs were drafted in the first two rounds, which is up there for the most ever. This was a 2-man RB class and overall a weak group. No first rounders, only 3 went in the Top 64.

It's not that I'm saying Cook sucks; I'm saying that I wouldn't pass on an extremely productive WR to draft a complimentary RB who doesn't have a history of being anything more and his athletic profile is just ok.

To pass on Moore or Pickens for a RB, I need someone who at least has a decent chance of being a lead back and has done it before.

I disagree with the notion that 2022 is a very strong draft class for WR. In 2020, 13 WRs were drafted in the first 2 rounds. In 2021 10 were and in 2022 13 were. The 3 years prior (and probably many more) were under 10 WRs drafted in the top 2 rounds. Clearly, the trend in the NFL is to draft WRs out of team need and the changing of the NFL to an extreme passing game, not to mention the increase cost to keep veteran WRs once they are up for a new contract. The fact that 13 teams identified a need at WR and drafted a WR in 2022 does not make the 2022 draft class strong at WR.

That's kind of how it works. If 13 teams went WR in the Top 64, that means they had strong draft grades on them to justify it. It doesn't mean it's going to go down as one of the best classes ever, but it is definitely a loaded group going into the season. It's not like they all reached randomly.

I think Moore definitely has more potential as a WR than Cook does as an RB, simply just off production profile.

[SteveMaddensShoes]

So the 13th drafted WR, from a small school, is obviously a better prospect than the 3rd RB drafted by a team who targeted him in the second round?

That sounds completely illogical.

Has a second round drafted RB ever been so disregarded in dynasty rookie drafts???

This was a very strong WR class. 13 WRs were drafted in the first two rounds, which is up there for the most ever. This was a 2-man RB class and overall a weak group. No first rounders, only 3 went in the Top 64.

It's not that I'm saying Cook sucks; I'm saying that I wouldn't pass on an extremely productive WR to draft a complimentary RB who doesn't have a history of being anything more and his athletic profile is just ok.

To pass on Moore or Pickens for a RB, I need someone who at least has a decent chance of being a lead back and has done it before.

I disagree with the notion that 2022 is a very strong draft class for WR. In 2020, 13 WRs were drafted in the first 2 rounds. In 2021 10 were and in 2022 13 were. The 3 years prior (and probably many more) were under 10 WRs drafted in the top 2 rounds. Clearly, the trend in the NFL is to draft WRs out of team need and the changing of the NFL to an extreme passing game, not to mention the increase cost to keep veteran WRs once they are up for a new contract. The fact that 13 teams identified a need at WR and drafted a WR in 2022 does not make the 2022 draft class strong at WR.

I have the 3rd pick in one league and I am likely looking at my choice at WR. Probably going with London. I can't decide, I can't turn to consensus, because consensus can't decide and I am not all that excited with drafting any of them with a top pick.

I also drafted 11th in another league and drafted Skyy Moore as the 7th WR off the board (James Cook was already gone). I like Skyy Moore, I put him in a tier with many of the other WRs. But I did not pass on 5 WRs drafted ahead of him because this is a strong WR class, I passed on them because it is a deep/mediocre WR class. I choose Moore situation, plus I have Mahomes, over the other WRs.

I also disagree with passing on James Cook because he is a complimentary RB. They are all complimentary RBs. Give me the complimentary pass catching RB in PPR all day with a mid to late 1st rookie pick over mediocre WRs. Yes position scarcity has plenty to do with it, as was mentioned, but the positional scarcity alone is worth the draft pick over mediocre WRs.

After 12 teams (one of the most ever in the top 2 rounds) drafted a WR and passed on Skyy Moore, if it wasn't for KC with a huge need at WR, Moore may have been a 3rd round WR, as it was he was pretty close to Round 3. I am just saying, that guy should not be clearly above James Cook in dynasty drafts. If anything, he should be in the same tier with 50/50 leagues picking Cook ahead of him, which actually appears to be the case in real drafts.

I don’t like your process of comparing wr to rb or using the 13th at a position to justify taking the rb. It’s like saying there are 13 Ferrari that were picked and and 3 Toyotas and you would prefer the 3rd Toyota because it has a higher draft capital.

I think you clarified the real problem to a degree and that’s your belief that it’s a poor/weak wr class I general and where others are seeing 13 Ferraris your are seeing 13 Hondas. And I think that’s fair. We all are trying to analyze and it’s ultimately up to you to decide which guys are actually the Ferraris.

I’d just caution that your process of comparing 13th wr to 3rd rb might be flawed. Not saying your opinion of who the better player will be is wrong. Cleaning up your process can help clean up your decision making, in my experience.

[Ice]

This was a very strong WR class. 13 WRs were drafted in the first two rounds, which is up there for the most ever. This was a 2-man RB class and overall a weak group. No first rounders, only 3 went in the Top 64.

It's not that I'm saying Cook sucks; I'm saying that I wouldn't pass on an extremely productive WR to draft a complimentary RB who doesn't have a history of being anything more and his athletic profile is just ok.

To pass on Moore or Pickens for a RB, I need someone who at least has a decent chance of being a lead back and has done it before.

I disagree with the notion that 2022 is a very strong draft class for WR. In 2020, 13 WRs were drafted in the first 2 rounds. In 2021 10 were and in 2022 13 were. The 3 years prior (and probably many more) were under 10 WRs drafted in the top 2 rounds. Clearly, the trend in the NFL is to draft WRs out of team need and the changing of the NFL to an extreme passing game, not to mention the increase cost to keep veteran WRs once they are up for a new contract. The fact that 13 teams identified a need at WR and drafted a WR in 2022 does not make the 2022 draft class strong at WR.

I have the 3rd pick in one league and I am likely looking at my choice at WR. Probably going with London. I can't decide, I can't turn to consensus, because consensus can't decide and I am not all that excited with drafting any of them with a top pick.

I also drafted 11th in another league and drafted Skyy Moore as the 7th WR off the board (James Cook was already gone). I like Skyy Moore, I put him in a tier with many of the other WRs. But I did not pass on 5 WRs drafted ahead of him because this is a strong WR class, I passed on them because it is a deep/mediocre WR class. I choose Moore situation, plus I have Mahomes, over the other WRs.

I also disagree with passing on James Cook because he is a complimentary RB. They are all complimentary RBs. Give me the complimentary pass catching RB in PPR all day with a mid to late 1st rookie pick over mediocre WRs. Yes position scarcity has plenty to do with it, as was mentioned, but the positional scarcity alone is worth the draft pick over mediocre WRs.

After 12 teams (one of the most ever in the top 2 rounds) drafted a WR and passed on Skyy Moore, if it wasn't for KC with a huge need at WR, Moore may have been a 3rd round WR, as it was he was pretty close to Round 3. I am just saying, that guy should not be clearly above James Cook in dynasty drafts. If anything, he should be in the same tier with 50/50 leagues picking Cook ahead of him, which actually appears to be the case in real drafts.

I don’t like your process of comparing wr to rb or using the 13th at a position to justify taking the rb. It’s like saying there are 13 Ferrari that were picked and and 3 Toyotas and you would prefer the 3rd Toyota because it has a higher draft capital.

I think you clarified the real problem to a degree and that’s your belief that it’s a poor/weak wr class I general and where others are seeing 13 Ferraris your are seeing 13 Hondas. And I think that’s fair. We all are trying to analyze and it’s ultimately up to you to decide which guys are actually the Ferraris.

I’d just caution that your process of comparing 13th wr to 3rd rb might be flawed. Not saying your opinion of who the better player will be is wrong. Cleaning up your process can help clean up your decision making, in my experience.

So what you're saying is a Toyota is only 1/100th of second slower in the 40 but is less valuable because they will get carries and receptions and played against vastly superior competition.

I like Moore just fine and think his game does translate but upon closer inspection, 8 of his 10 TD's came in 3 games. He had 2 catches against Michigan and Akron, and 4 catches against Nevada.

One might want to check the powerhouses in The MAC West and East. There is a big Mahomes factor with Skyy Moore no doubt.

[SteveMaddensShoes]

I disagree with the notion that 2022 is a very strong draft class for WR. In 2020, 13 WRs were drafted in the first 2 rounds. In 2021 10 were and in 2022 13 were. The 3 years prior (and probably many more) were under 10 WRs drafted in the top 2 rounds. Clearly, the trend in the NFL is to draft WRs out of team need and the changing of the NFL to an extreme passing game, not to mention the increase cost to keep veteran WRs once they are up for a new contract. The fact that 13 teams identified a need at WR and drafted a WR in 2022 does not make the 2022 draft class strong at WR.

I have the 3rd pick in one league and I am likely looking at my choice at WR. Probably going with London. I can't decide, I can't turn to consensus, because consensus can't decide and I am not all that excited with drafting any of them with a top pick.

I also drafted 11th in another league and drafted Skyy Moore as the 7th WR off the board (James Cook was already gone). I like Skyy Moore, I put him in a tier with many of the other WRs. But I did not pass on 5 WRs drafted ahead of him because this is a strong WR class, I passed on them because it is a deep/mediocre WR class. I choose Moore situation, plus I have Mahomes, over the other WRs.

I also disagree with passing on James Cook because he is a complimentary RB. They are all complimentary RBs. Give me the complimentary pass catching RB in PPR all day with a mid to late 1st rookie pick over mediocre WRs. Yes position scarcity has plenty to do with it, as was mentioned, but the positional scarcity alone is worth the draft pick over mediocre WRs.

After 12 teams (one of the most ever in the top 2 rounds) drafted a WR and passed on Skyy Moore, if it wasn't for KC with a huge need at WR, Moore may have been a 3rd round WR, as it was he was pretty close to Round 3. I am just saying, that guy should not be clearly above James Cook in dynasty drafts. If anything, he should be in the same tier with 50/50 leagues picking Cook ahead of him, which actually appears to be the case in real drafts.

I don’t like your process of comparing wr to rb or using the 13th at a position to justify taking the rb. It’s like saying there are 13 Ferrari that were picked and and 3 Toyotas and you would prefer the 3rd Toyota because it has a higher draft capital.

I think you clarified the real problem to a degree and that’s your belief that it’s a poor/weak wr class I general and where others are seeing 13 Ferraris your are seeing 13 Hondas. And I think that’s fair. We all are trying to analyze and it’s ultimately up to you to decide which guys are actually the Ferraris.

I’d just caution that your process of comparing 13th wr to 3rd rb might be flawed. Not saying your opinion of who the better player will be is wrong. Cleaning up your process can help clean up your decision making, in my experience.

So what you're saying is a Toyota is only 1/100th of second slower in the 40 but is less valuable because they will get carries and receptions and played against vastly superior competition.

I like Moore just fine and think his game does translate but upon closer inspection, 8 of his 10 TD's came in 3 games. He had 2 catches against Michigan and Akron, and 4 catches against Nevada.

One might want to check the powerhouses in The MAC West and East. There is a big Mahomes factor with Skyy Moore no doubt.

Lol. I had a feeling mybexample would get nitpicked. The problem with an illustration is that it only runs on 3 legs.

[Anteaters]

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/footb ... backfield/

Was just reading this article at CBSsportsline.com, about potential busts for the 2022 season. It's more for redraft than dynasty, but we can definitely use parts of the information for dynasty. For instance, when it mentioned Damion Pierce this was said ...

the track record of running backs with a career-high in carries in college in the low-100s isn't great.

...and that got me to thinking about James Cook, whom I was not really warming up to but was considering the possibility of taking a flyer on in one dynasty league, if the price was right.

In 4 seasons at Georgia, Cook had 41, 31, 45 and 111 carries. The same thing the article mentioned as a negative for Pierce looks to be a negative for Cook. I know, I know, Cook is more of a receiving back than a running back. So I check his receptions in college and find 8, 16, 16 and 27.

Could someone who is more of a Cook maybe-ist than a Cook truther, tell me why I should believe Cook is the special low-touch college guy who is going to become a T20 fantasy RB? I'll concede the NFL draft capital means something. Is there any other reason besides "his game film proves it."?

BONUS QUESTION: I have a redraft draft tonight. As the time comes for RB lottery swings, is there any reason to take Cook over ZWhite or even RWhite?

[mild]

BONUS QUESTION: I have a redraft draft tonight. As the time comes for RB lottery swings, is there any reason to take Cook over ZWhite or even RWhite?

Rachaad White is a smash for redraft leagues (and Dynasty contenders).

Clear Number 2 to Fournette already, has pass catching upside in an offense with the GOAT, and would be a monster for an extremely talented (top 5) offense if the starter went down. A good reminder that Lenny already showed up out of shape, and is 27 with a lot of tread on the tires already.

Z-White and J-Cook have elements of those things going for them in their situations, but nothing as concrete as what Rachaad already has right now.

[Pullo Vision]

BONUS QUESTION: I have a redraft draft tonight. As the time comes for RB lottery swings, is there any reason to take Cook over ZWhite or even RWhite?

Rachaad White is a smash for redraft leagues (and Dynasty contenders).

Clear Number 2 to Fournette already, has pass catching upside in an offense with the GOAT, and would be a monster for an extremely talented (top 5) offense if the starter went down. A good reminder that Lenny already showed up out of shape, and is 27 with a lot of tread on the tires already.

Z-White and J-Cook have elements of those things going for them in their situations, but nothing as concrete as what Rachaad already has right now.

Agreed. Of the three in redraft, RWhite is clearly above the other 2 , in a different tier. Cook beats out Zamir in redraft, but I wouldn't be enthusiastic picking him.