The Deshaun Watson Discussion Thread

[Bronco Billy]

At least they didn't put him back on the field. But you're right, no one should get a pass on this one. Cleveland just drives me nuts for signing him.

I don’t see CLE decision (at the time) as a player wrong. They took a chance on an elite QB. The issue is the accompanying PR problem that comes with Watson.

I’m actually wanting to see how DTR does. If he can be a game manager and use his legs, CLE should still be a playoff team. The Defense is ridiculous

Yeah. I'm not talking about the calculation about the player on the field. That part makes sense. I just would never want to associate myself with Watson if I were a GM or owner.

It makes poor business sense. Watson was (is) a toxic asset. Public relations and good will are especially important in a business model for a company that is in the sports entertainment market. If they pull off a championship they can overcome a lot of the loss of public faith, but that’s such a poor risk when you tie your franchise to the toxic asset. On top of that they’ve antagonized their competing partners with that idiotic contract, and their good will and trust is also very important in negotiating future transactions.

All in all, such a massive gamble had a whole lot more negative future outcomes than positive. CLE is just starting to feel the pain IMO. Now it looks like they’re also getting a reputation for not giving a crap about their players, given they way they dealt with Mayfield and what he sacrificed for the franchise and now having the look of doing the same with Watson’s health. That will also likely impact future transactions with players, as well as raising expectations of salary guarantees.

Lot of bad business decisions going on there.

[abloom]

I don’t see CLE decision (at the time) as a player wrong. They took a chance on an elite QB. The issue is the accompanying PR problem that comes with Watson.

I’m actually wanting to see how DTR does. If he can be a game manager and use his legs, CLE should still be a playoff team. The Defense is ridiculous

Yeah. I'm not talking about the calculation about the player on the field. That part makes sense. I just would never want to associate myself with Watson if I were a GM or owner.

It makes poor business sense. Watson was (is) a toxic asset. Public relations and good will are especially important in a business model for a company that is in the sports entertainment market. If they pull off a championship they can overcome a lot of the loss of public faith, but that’s such a poor risk when you tie your franchise to the toxic asset. On top of that they’ve antagonized their competing partners with that idiotic contract, and their good will and trust is also very important in negotiating future transactions.

All in all, such a massive gamble had a whole lot more negative future outcomes than positive. CLE is just starting to feel the pain IMO. Now it looks like they’re also getting a reputation for not giving a crap about their players, given they way they dealt with Mayfield and what he sacrificed for the franchise and now having the look of doing the same with Watson’s health. That will also likely impact future transactions with players, as well as raising expectations of salary guarantees.

Lot of bad business decisions going on there.

How much money has Cleveland lost due to signing Watson? Did any sponsors leave? Did they lose advertising?

[FantasyFreak]

I’m embarrassed at my level of schadenfreude.

This is precisely how I feel.

I hate every mention of Watson in FF. Refuse to have him on any team at any cost. Feel somewhat ashamed having any Browns on my team because they are complicit in the whole thing.

Karma's a bitch and the universe is rewarding the Texans for how they handled Watson.

I'm not talking about every person who rosters Watson, but there were a few who basically tried to scold/mock me for not wanting to roster him.

The "I only care about winning" mantra from a few FF players, to my response that I wouldn't roster him, and that their "buying low" was a move that gave them an advantage over my likes, seems to have backfired. 2 years in, and nothing to show for it. Can't say I feel sorry for them. I saw him go 2nd round is a Superflex Startup, the off season of the trade, too FWIW.

I will say, that Amari Cooper, Nick Chubb, in particular, seem like stand up guys, and they really had nothing to do with Watson being signed.

Watson's value will never recover to where it was his last season in Houston, for FF purposes, and in terms of real football, the Browns have 3 years left, of a massive cap hit.

[Bronco Billy]

Yeah. I'm not talking about the calculation about the player on the field. That part makes sense. I just would never want to associate myself with Watson if I were a GM or owner.

It makes poor business sense. Watson was (is) a toxic asset. Public relations and good will are especially important in a business model for a company that is in the sports entertainment market. If they pull off a championship they can overcome a lot of the loss of public faith, but that’s such a poor risk when you tie your franchise to the toxic asset. On top of that they’ve antagonized their competing partners with that idiotic contract, and their good will and trust is also very important in negotiating future transactions.

All in all, such a massive gamble had a whole lot more negative future outcomes than positive. CLE is just starting to feel the pain IMO. Now it looks like they’re also getting a reputation for not giving a crap about their players, given they way they dealt with Mayfield and what he sacrificed for the franchise and now having the look of doing the same with Watson’s health. That will also likely impact future transactions with players, as well as raising expectations of salary guarantees.

Lot of bad business decisions going on there.

How much money has Cleveland lost due to signing Watson? Did any sponsors leave? Did they lose advertising?

I don’t know. Do you?

ETA - based on the research of material available, apparently Browns’ value of resale tickets has dropped second most in the league, with only Washington being worse. Apparently merchandise sales are down also - and that’s huge revenue to NFL teams. Anecdotal evidence is stating that virtually no Watson jerseys are ever seen at games or in the parking lot. No idea if the cost of sponsorship has changed but apparently Browns’ sponsors interviewed about the team and Watson are now typically deferring statements to the Browns’ PR dept. instead of responding about how proud they are to be sponsors and pimping their relationship with the team.

[tstafford]

I’m embarrassed at my level of schadenfreude.

This is precisely how I feel.

I hate every mention of Watson in FF. Refuse to have him on any team at any cost. Feel somewhat ashamed having any Browns on my team because they are complicit in the whole thing.

Karma's a bitch and the universe is rewarding the Texans for how they handled Watson.

I'm not talking about every person who rosters Watson, but there were a few who basically tried to scold/mock me for not wanting to roster him.

The "I only care about winning" mantra from a few FF players, to my response that I wouldn't roster him, and that their "buying low" was a move that gave them an advantage over my likes, seems to have backfired. 2 years in, and nothing to show for it. Can't say I feel sorry for them. I saw him go 2nd round is a Superflex Startup, the off season of the trade, too FWIW.

I will say, that Amari Cooper, Nick Chubb, in particular, seem like stand up guys, and they really had nothing to do with Watson being signed.

Watson's value will never recover to where it was his last season in Houston, for FF purposes, and in terms of real football, the Browns have 3 years left, of a massive cap hit.

He went at the 2.04 in a SF start-up I'm in with a bunch of experts from one the networks this season!

[killer_of_giants]

Feel somewhat ashamed having any Browns on my team because they are complicit in the whole thing.

i get the feeling, but they aren't!

[tstafford]

Feel somewhat ashamed having any Browns on my team because they are complicit in the whole thing.

i get the feeling, but they aren't!

I meant the organization is complicit, not the players themselves. And IMHO Haslem, et al are definitely complicit.

Makes me not want to cheer for anything Browns.

[abloom]

It makes poor business sense. Watson was (is) a toxic asset. Public relations and good will are especially important in a business model for a company that is in the sports entertainment market. If they pull off a championship they can overcome a lot of the loss of public faith, but that’s such a poor risk when you tie your franchise to the toxic asset. On top of that they’ve antagonized their competing partners with that idiotic contract, and their good will and trust is also very important in negotiating future transactions.

All in all, such a massive gamble had a whole lot more negative future outcomes than positive. CLE is just starting to feel the pain IMO. Now it looks like they’re also getting a reputation for not giving a crap about their players, given they way they dealt with Mayfield and what he sacrificed for the franchise and now having the look of doing the same with Watson’s health. That will also likely impact future transactions with players, as well as raising expectations of salary guarantees.

Lot of bad business decisions going on there.

How much money has Cleveland lost due to signing Watson? Did any sponsors leave? Did they lose advertising?

I don’t know. Do you?

ETA - based on the research of material available, apparently Browns’ value of resale tickets has dropped second most in the league, with only Washington being worse. Apparently merchandise sales are down also - and that’s huge revenue to NFL teams. Anecdotal evidence is stating that virtually no Watson jerseys are ever seen at games or in the parking lot. No idea if the cost of sponsorship has changed but apparently Browns’ sponsors interviewed about the team and Watson are now typically deferring statements to the Browns’ PR dept. instead of responding about how proud they are to be sponsors and pimping their relationship with the team.

From my searches:
https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/desh ... ng-jerseys

2022: #21 jersey sold

https://theathletic.com/3503551/2022/08 ... wns-sales/
2022: No major sponsers known to have pulled out


https://dawgpounddaily.com/2022/08/19/b ... un-watson/

2022: second largest decline in secondary market (I think this is what you were referencing). They also suggest that it may be due to brissett being the starter during Watson's suspension.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozania ... n-in-2022/
Shares revenue for NFL teams was $373 million per team.

https://frontofficesports.com/commander ... t-revenue/
60% of home game tickets sales stay with home team, 40% go to visiting team. So even decreases in primary ticket sales aren't going to hurt Cleveland to the same extent as it would appear.

Overall, while I'm sure the NFL would rather that.everyone forget about Watson, I suspect the financial damage is very minimal for the browns. Most of the articles were from 2022 which I think are likely to be the hardest hit year. As we get further and further from 2022 I think Cleveland fans will forget/ignore watson

[killer_of_giants]

I meant the organization is complicit, not the players themselves. And IMHO Haslem, et al are definitely complicit.

ownership, yes of course, but you don't have any of them on your roster.

Makes me not want to cheer for anything Browns.

understandable.

[Orenthal Shames]

Feel somewhat ashamed having any Browns on my team because they are complicit in the whole thing.

i get the feeling, but they aren't!

I meant the organization is complicit, not the players themselves. And IMHO Haslem, et al are definitely complicit.

Makes me not want to cheer for anything Browns.

But Haslem seems like such a stand-up guy!

[Ice]

The Texans fleeced the Browns in one of the best trades since the Cowboys H. Walker trade.

And ended up drafting a better QB with their own pick. The good news for the Texans is they are still benefiting given they own the Browns 2024 1st and 3rd round picks as final payment.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/revi ... t-capital/

From the Article:

"Here are the players the Texans landed in the Watson deal after their draft trades so far:

Kenyon Green
John Metchie III
Christian Harris
Dameon Pierce
Thomas Booker
Will Anderson
Tank Dell
Brandon Hill
Xavier Hutchinson
2024 first-round pick
2024 third-round pick"

3 of the 4 players that are already starters looks to be high end players that will start for years.

[abloom]

The Texans fleeced the Browns in one of the best trades since the Cowboys H. Walker trade.

And ended up drafting a better QB with their own pick.

possibly only due to Lovie Smith winning a game he was likely fired for

[wickerkat1212]

The Texans fleeced the Browns in one of the best trades since the Cowboys H. Walker trade.

And ended up drafting a better QB with their own pick.

possibly only due to Lovie Smith winning a game he was likely fired for

Which also helped the Bears.

[mild]

The Texans fleeced the Browns in one of the best trades since the Cowboys H. Walker trade.

And ended up drafting a better QB with their own pick.

possibly only due to Lovie Smith winning a game he was likely fired for

Which also helped the Bears.

("Allegedly")

[Sriracha]

I’m embarrassed at my level of schadenfreude.

This is precisely how I feel.

I hate every mention of Watson in FF. Refuse to have him on any team at any cost. Feel somewhat ashamed having any Browns on my team because they are complicit in the whole thing.

Karma's a bitch and the universe is rewarding the Texans for how they handled Watson.

I'm not talking about every person who rosters Watson, but there were a few who basically tried to scold/mock me for not wanting to roster him.

The "I only care about winning" mantra from a few FF players, to my response that I wouldn't roster him, and that their "buying low" was a move that gave them an advantage over my likes, seems to have backfired. 2 years in, and nothing to show for it. Can't say I feel sorry for them. I saw him go 2nd round is a Superflex Startup, the off season of the trade, too FWIW.

I will say, that Amari Cooper, Nick Chubb, in particular, seem like stand up guys, and they really had nothing to do with Watson being signed.

Watson's value will never recover to where it was his last season in Houston, for FF purposes, and in terms of real football, the Browns have 3 years left, of a massive cap hit.

I don't think this is a unique take on Watson. I refuse to roster him and Tyreek Hill just because I like to root for my players and I'd have conflicting feelings wishing for their on-field success.

As a fantasy asset his contract probably locks him into the starting job for the duration but I'm starting to see something in DTR. Watching him at UCLA he was more athlete than QB for most of his college career; However he showed substantial growth as a passer every year before finally breaking out as a passer in his final season. I'm not saying he's going to be a dude in the NFL but this is something we saw out of Lamar Jackson and Jalen Hurts in college and those two just continued to refine their mechanics and become better in the NFL.

If he's able to continue to refine his game in a similar fashion, he's got the traits to succeed. Legitimately has one of the strongest arms in the NFL and is up there in terms of playmaking ability with the ball in his hands.

Which brings me to this thought experiment.. if DTR somehow captains an elite defense and strong running game into the Browns first Super Bowl appearance would that be enough to move off of Watson despite his contract?