Dynasty League Football Forum

Goddard wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:54 pm

hockeyBjj wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:15 pm I traded away both Keenan and Thielen early this year

I should be kicked out of my league :'(

What did you trade them for?

Don't answer lol. I don't think you can answer this successfully.

I just hope the leg injuries are past him. He's always been a very good football player.

The past 3 weeks he has gotten a minimum of 33% target share and nearly 50% vs the Cowboys and Bills....I think only AB comes close to that target share on a team and over the same 3 week period Brown is outscoring Allen on an equal # of targets. Rivers/Ben are top quality QB so targets are not without meaning...different than say a Kizer target.

Anyway it isn't rocket science...feed a good WR quality targets and he will go off. Cooper had a solid outing when forced targets and we all know how he is doing this year.

Allen is deserving of the targets and making the most of them rewarding his owners. While his yearly pace puts him around 160 targets the past 3 weeks are more like 200+ which isn't impossible but less common...just something to note

maxhyde wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:24 pm Allen is deserving of the targets and making the most of them rewarding his owners. While his yearly pace puts him around 160 targets the past 3 weeks are more like 200+ which isn't impossible but less common...just something to note

There was a Rivers quote a few games back about a critical part of the game. Rivers told Keenan he would keep looking at him until he got open then throw it to him.

If that's his strategy, he could practically do that all game.

maxhyde wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:24 pm The past 3 weeks he has gotten a minimum of 33% target share and nearly 50% vs the Cowboys and Bills....I think only AB comes close to that target share on a team and over the same 3 week period Brown is outscoring Allen on an equal # of targets. Rivers/Ben are top quality QB so targets are not without meaning...different than say a Kizer target.

Anyway it isn't rocket science...force feed a WR quality targets and he will go off. Cooper had a solid outing when forced targets and we all know how he is doing this year.

Allen is deserving of the targets and making the most of them rewarding his owners. While his yearly pace puts him around 160 targets the past 3 weeks are more like 200+ which isn't impossible but less common...just something to note

They've also won the past 3 weeks. Maybe it's a coincidence but maybe targeting Keenan more has contributed to the winning streak. As Harmon likes to say "just throw it to your good players"

cweds wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:46 pm

maxhyde wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:24 pm The past 3 weeks he has gotten a minimum of 33% target share and nearly 50% vs the Cowboys and Bills....I think only AB comes close to that target share on a team and over the same 3 week period Brown is outscoring Allen on an equal # of targets. Rivers/Ben are top quality QB so targets are not without meaning...different than say a Kizer target.

Anyway it isn't rocket science...force feed a WR quality targets and he will go off. Cooper had a solid outing when forced targets and we all know how he is doing this year.

Allen is deserving of the targets and making the most of them rewarding his owners. While his yearly pace puts him around 160 targets the past 3 weeks are more like 200+ which isn't impossible but less common...just something to note

They've also won the past 3 weeks. Maybe it's a coincidence but maybe targeting Keenan more has contributed to the winning streak. As Harmon likes to say "just throw it to your good players"

They have also won 3 games he wasn't the critical factor...so probably more coincidence since you could remove Keenan's TD's and they would still win every one of those games. Not certainly coincidence just probably

Also his catch % which may or may not be a meaningless stat is 44/80 55% all season except for the past 3 weeks where it was 33/41 80%. Read into it what you will.

maxhyde wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:04 pm They have also won 3 games he wasn't the critical factor...so probably more coincidence since you could remove Keenan's TD's and they would still win every one of those games. Not certainly coincidence just probably

Also his catch % which may or may not be a meaningless stat is 44/80 55% all season except for the past 3 weeks where it was 33/41 80%. Read into it what you will.

He went through a stretch that included facing the Broncos and Jags CBs plus a matchup against Jenkins and Belichick putting in a game plan specifically to stop him? He's taking advantage of the good matchups as a WR1 should do and there are good matchups the rest of the way outside of Norman covering him some this week but they can move him into the slot to get away from that.

He's now a year and a half removed from the knee injury. Most guys regain their confidence and quickness the 2nd year after the ACL injury. Chargers are lining him up all over the field (less than 30% at each of the WR spots). I think it's pretty safe to credit him with being the difference maker in their wins. The TDs are just positive regression but the 3rd down catches (think I saw he's leading the league) are certainly a factor in their wins.

You can take any set of numbers to make any argument you want but watching the games, this dude is pretty good.

onetwothree wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:59 pm

maxhyde wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:04 pm They have also won 3 games he wasn't the critical factor...so probably more coincidence since you could remove Keenan's TD's and they would still win every one of those games. Not certainly coincidence just probably

Also his catch % which may or may not be a meaningless stat is 44/80 55% all season except for the past 3 weeks where it was 33/41 80%. Read into it what you will.

He went through a stretch that included facing the Broncos and Jags CBs plus a matchup against Jenkins and Belichick putting in a game plan specifically to stop him? He's taking advantage of the good matchups as a WR1 should do and there are good matchups the rest of the way outside of Norman covering him some this week but they can move him into the slot to get away from that.

He's now a year and a half removed from the knee injury. Most guys regain their confidence and quickness the 2nd year after the ACL injury. Chargers are lining him up all over the field (less than 30% at each of the WR spots). I think it's pretty safe to credit him with being the difference maker in their wins. The TDs are just positive regression but the 3rd down catches (think I saw he's leading the league) are certainly a factor in their wins.

You can take any set of numbers to make any argument you want but watching the games, this dude is pretty good.

Keenan Allen's targets per games in wins is 11.5 (6 wins 69 total targets), while his targets per game in losses is 8.67 (6 losses 52 total targets). Max noted the catch rate which probably has more to do with Rivers than Keenan given the massive shift. As a counter point to Keenan being the only reason the Charger's are winning, we can't ignore that during this recent hot streak Hunter Henry has seen increased involvement. However, I think this points to LAC's recognition of Gordon's deficiencies and the need to go pass heavy. Overall I think one could conclude that running the offense through Keenan is not an accident and has resulted in success for the Chargers. He's the focal point because he's their best offensive weapon, and he truly is elite.

Um. Do you think maybe it is O-line related. That seems to have an impact on time, running lanes, etc. I think perhaps it isn't just K.Allen is their best weapon and Gordon has deficiencies. That conclusion seems incredibly short sighted. It may also have a tad to do with game flow, match-ups, health, or ANY combination of these factors. Honestly.... probably not LAC's "recognition" of Gordon's deficiencies. smh.

M.Gordon is currently the #5 rb in ppr scoring and has been healthy all year, clean off the field and is still quite young for dynasty value purposes. Yet.... still gets bashed on these forums... I think it more likely that when K.Allen is healthy, he presents a mismatch depending on where he is lined up. Smart, savy competitive vets like Rivers tend to be good at taking advantage of mismatches. Good, timely play calling would facilitate that.

JFever wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:14 am M.Gordon is currently the #5 rb in ppr scoring and has been healthy all year, clean off the field and is still quite young for dynasty value purposes. Yet.... still gets bashed on these forums...

I don't know dude. I see what the final numbers say but when I'm watching the game...

Even the Chargers have gone to Ekeler for long stretches so either the coaching staff has the same doubts or they're "clueless" fantasy owners too.

onetwothree wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:48 pm

JFever wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:14 am M.Gordon is currently the #5 rb in ppr scoring and has been healthy all year, clean off the field and is still quite young for dynasty value purposes. Yet.... still gets bashed on these forums...

I don't know dude. I see what the final numbers say but when I'm watching the game...

Even the Chargers have gone to Ekeler for long stretches so either the coaching staff has the same doubts or they're "clueless" fantasy owners too.

When you watch the game...what? When I watch Ekeler I see essentially Sproles/Woodhead in this offense. A position Rivers has always used very effectively and probably a big reason for the LAC turnaround. Not ideal sharing the ball/backfield but also not a serious threat to Gordon's role. If they thought he was better Gordon wouldn't be out there at all yet there he is with 20+ touches most of these recent weeks and some of that is because they are extending drives and have the ball more. This is a good thing for Gordon and Allen therefore a very good thing for the Chargers

Anyway Allen is good but I have a tough time remembering anyone saying he wasn't good at football. Not getting injured changes the narrative but still the same WR. How much it changes it is a personal choice
Like guys that have suspension/injury risk it will take more than a year to rank him where his talent/situation should have him ranked...just a logical conclusion from my perspective and part of his progression is one healthy season.

Anyway for my money today I am buying the late 1st Josh Gordon's rather than the 2 mid 1st Keenan Allens but I expect Allen will be ranked and valued higher than Gordon/Sammy Watkins/Diggs/Hilton come next off-season and probably getting into the declining value/rank Julio/AB/Cooper area. In your startup are you taking Allen over Julio/AB? What happens if he finishes the season hurt or Rivers retires this offseason?

Not to jinx the dude but the injuries have been somewhat fluky and to different parts of the body. Hard to say he's injury prone when that's the case. I also don't recall him being type that has been listed as questionable for soft tissue injuries. Either he has season ending injury or he's played.

We like saying Diggs is the next AB but isn't Keenan the next AB? Gets open almost at will with great run after the catch thanks to his footwork.

JFever wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:14 am Um. Do you think maybe it is O-line related. That seems to have an impact on time, running lanes, etc. I think perhaps it isn't just K.Allen is their best weapon and Gordon has deficiencies. That conclusion seems incredibly short sighted. It may also have a tad to do with game flow, match-ups, health, or ANY combination of these factors. Honestly.... probably not LAC's "recognition" of Gordon's deficiencies. smh.

M.Gordon is currently the #5 rb in ppr scoring and has been healthy all year, clean off the field and is still quite young for dynasty value purposes. Yet.... still gets bashed on these forums... I think it more likely that when K.Allen is healthy, he presents a mismatch depending on where he is lined up. Smart, savy competitive vets like Rivers tend to be good at taking advantage of mismatches. Good, timely play calling would facilitate that.

Of course there are a lot of factors that could affect their respective performance, but I didn’t feel like doing a 5000 word analysis. I understand that taking a stance opened me up to criticism.

However, I stand by my claims. Gordon is a good RB, but not great. He’s a great Fantasy option due to volume but they were running the offense through him and losing. The reason you’re seeing more Ekeler is because Gordon wasn’t succeeding with a full workload. They shifted their offense to a pass heavy attack with Keenan as the focal point and they’re winning. It’s not a coincidence.