Dynasty League Football Forum

georg013 wrote:

Chris_R wrote:

balaberda wrote: I think we need to be a little bit careful with Gordon. He will be the game plan from now on.

Yes he is in a good offense etc and sees targets but he is the gameplan now. Guys can shut down AJG and Marshall so what is gonna happen when people start game planning for Gordon. If you think he scores over 100 and a TD a game still then go and trade Megatron for him.

Just outta curiousity, who do you think they were game planning for in the passing game last year? People have been doing this already. I heard the same things with Dez, people said "lets see how he does this year when defenses game plan against him" when they have been doing that since his 2nd season. It's not like Gordon is a guy that is just popular among the fantasy community, anytime you play a team with a big time weapon it's addressed early into the week, and the less play-makers a team has the more attention the ones they do have are going to get. I just can't imagine anyone going to play the Browns from the end of last year being surprised as who Gordon was.


I'm not saying he's some mortal lock for 1600 yards and 16 TD's, but I highly doubt Josh Gordon is catching anyone off guard., he has been the gameplan. Cameron wasn't doing anything last year and neither was Little. Gordon is good enough to beat double coverages week in and out, all you have to do is watch him play to recognize that. He wouldn't have to post another 100 yard game for me to know that.

This is true, so true.

Now with Trich gone he is more the gameplan is all I am saying. I have a hard time believing Gordon was the main worry with Trich also in town. Gordon will 100 % be the focus now. If he can post some serious stat lines in the next 4-5 weeks then I am a full on believer and buyer. Now is his real test.

cool_zapp wrote:

dm1129 wrote: Let me start by saying I'm a huge supporter of Gordon, I think he has the potential to be elite. In regard to game planning against Gordon going forward, yes there is a concern. Last year the Browns had Richardson in the backfield, this at the very least made defenses respect the run. Now defenses will make Gordon THE focus of their defensive gameplan combined with very questionable play from the QB position. Ask Fitzgerald how that combination works. No matter how good a WR is, defenses will usually be able to shut them down if the QB position is weak and the offense is one dimensional.

I don't think it's fair to compare Gordon's offense to that of AZ last year. It was a combination of things that led Fitz to not be successful the biggest one in my opinion is having to create new chemistry with a different QB for what seemed like every week last year. Gordon I believe has the skills to produce even when defenses focus on him and I think that will be the case regardless of where he's playing.

I think the comparison is very valid. Fitzgerald has mostly 'struggled' since Warner retired. I understand he has still produced at a certain level, but the reality is he could put up monster numbers in a better situation. The topic of this thread is whether Gordon would be better off staying in Cleveland or being traded. Many people seem to assume the Browns will get their franchise QB next draft. There is no sure-fire way to get a franchise QB, if there was, teams like AZ would have corrected their QB situation years ago. As I said earlier in this thread, the position of QB is extremely difficult to project from college to the NFL. That is why so many 1st round QBs end up as busts. I simply do not believe the Browns will be in a position to draft Bridgewater. For the sake of discussion, let's say the Browns draft a QB with their first pick early in the first round. If he struggles in his first season next year, the Browns' front office will not immediately move on to another option. He would be 'their' guy and have too much of their own credibility linked to his success. Look at Blaine Gabbert in Jacksonville. That could very easliy be the Browns 2-3 years from now. For that reason, as a Gordon owner, I want him traded to a team with a proven QB.

dm1129 wrote: Many people seem to assume the Browns will get their franchise QB next draft. There is no sure-fire way to get a franchise QB, if there was, teams like AZ would have corrected their QB situation years ago. As I said earlier in this thread, the position of QB is extremely difficult to project from college to the NFL. That is why so many 1st round QBs end up as busts. I simply do not believe the Browns will be in a position to draft Bridgewater. For the sake of discussion, let's say the Browns draft a QB with their first pick early in the first round. If he struggles in his first season next year, the Browns' front office will not immediately move on to another option. He would be 'their' guy and have too much of their own credibility linked to his success. Look at Blaine Gabbert in Jacksonville. That could very easliy be the Browns 2-3 years from now. For that reason, as a Gordon owner, I want him traded to a team with a proven QB.

So even though he's blown up with Weeden and Hoyer at QB, 2 guys who aren't franchise QB's in the least sense, your worried about if their next QB is somehow going to hinder his production? Seeing as how we've seen him produce with 2 different QB's, neither of which who had a bunch of time to get used to him in practice, I'd say this is probably the least of my concern.

Chris_R wrote:

dm1129 wrote: Many people seem to assume the Browns will get their franchise QB next draft. There is no sure-fire way to get a franchise QB, if there was, teams like AZ would have corrected their QB situation years ago. As I said earlier in this thread, the position of QB is extremely difficult to project from college to the NFL. That is why so many 1st round QBs end up as busts. I simply do not believe the Browns will be in a position to draft Bridgewater. For the sake of discussion, let's say the Browns draft a QB with their first pick early in the first round. If he struggles in his first season next year, the Browns' front office will not immediately move on to another option. He would be 'their' guy and have too much of their own credibility linked to his success. Look at Blaine Gabbert in Jacksonville. That could very easliy be the Browns 2-3 years from now. For that reason, as a Gordon owner, I want him traded to a team with a proven QB.

So even though he's blown up with Weeden and Hoyer at QB, 2 guys who aren't franchise QB's in the least sense, your worried about if their next QB is somehow going to hinder his production? Seeing as how we've seen him produce with 2 different QB's, neither of which who had a bunch of time to get used to him in practice, I'd say this is probably the least of my concern.

This is true, so true.

Chris_R wrote:

dm1129 wrote: Many people seem to assume the Browns will get their franchise QB next draft. There is no sure-fire way to get a franchise QB, if there was, teams like AZ would have corrected their QB situation years ago. As I said earlier in this thread, the position of QB is extremely difficult to project from college to the NFL. That is why so many 1st round QBs end up as busts. I simply do not believe the Browns will be in a position to draft Bridgewater. For the sake of discussion, let's say the Browns draft a QB with their first pick early in the first round. If he struggles in his first season next year, the Browns' front office will not immediately move on to another option. He would be 'their' guy and have too much of their own credibility linked to his success. Look at Blaine Gabbert in Jacksonville. That could very easliy be the Browns 2-3 years from now. For that reason, as a Gordon owner, I want him traded to a team with a proven QB.

So even though he's blown up with Weeden and Hoyer at QB, 2 guys who aren't franchise QB's in the least sense, your worried about if their next QB is somehow going to hinder his production? Seeing as how we've seen him produce with 2 different QB's, neither of which who had a bunch of time to get used to him in practice, I'd say this is probably the least of my concern.

This is funny. Again, the topic of this thread is whether Gordon would better off staying in Cleveland or being traded. He had a very good rookie season. He had a great game this week. He has not 'blown up' . You apparently feel he is better off with Hoyer over Brady, RG3, Newton, Kaep, etc.....I do not.

Apparently Chud has been texting Gordon and has told him he is not being traded.

Fine by me actually.

dm1129 wrote:

This is funny. Again, the topic of this thread is whether Gordon would better off staying in Cleveland or being traded. He had a very good rookie season. He had a great game this week. He has not 'blown up' . You apparently feel he is better off with Hoyer over Brady, RG3, Newton, Kaep, etc.....I do not.

You don't think 19 targets, 10 catches, 146 yards, and a TD in his first game is blowing up? What does he need to do then, break the single game receiving record? I never, ever said he'd be better off here then with an elite QB in the league, nothing I said was even close to that. I said I am not worried about him in terms of who is throwing him the ball. He's proven it with 2 different QB's, neither are guys that a team wants to build a team around, and yet WR1 production has still been there. I think the history has shown me that I don't need to be worried about his QB situation somehow becoming worse in Cleveland. Because I know he could go somewhere with a better QB, but not get fed the same targets to produce depending who is on the team.


Do you think he gets anywhere near 19 targets on the Lions? Redskins? Patriots? Hell no. Opportunity is a big piece in all of this, and he & Cameron work well with eachother and both guys are QB proof as far as I'm concerned. Sure, if you pick the most dreadful QB's ever you could make a case that it could workout worse, but there is far more evidence to show that it will work out no matter who is the QB in Cleveland. Sanchez was killing the WR's in NY, then they get a 2nd rd QB who is nothing special but he can at least throw, and all of a sudden Stephen Hill and Holmes have value again. It would be pretty hard for Cleveland to draft a QB who is FAR worse then the last 2 guys, and I'd rather he take his chances there with a new QB or by keeping Hoyer vs going somewhere with a better QB but who spreads the ball around more.

For me personally, I need to see Gordon continue to perform at a high level before I say he's "blown up." This was only the second 100 yard game of his career, so he isn't exactly a stud yet.

Chris_R wrote:

dm1129 wrote:

This is funny. Again, the topic of this thread is whether Gordon would better off staying in Cleveland or being traded. He had a very good rookie season. He had a great game this week. He has not 'blown up' . You apparently feel he is better off with Hoyer over Brady, RG3, Newton, Kaep, etc.....I do not.

You don't think 19 targets, 10 catches, 146 yards, and a TD in his first game is blowing up? What does he need to do then, break the single game receiving record? I never, ever said he'd be better off here then with an elite QB in the league, nothing I said was even close to that. I said I am not worried about him in terms of who is throwing him the ball. He's proven it with 2 different QB's, neither are guys that a team wants to build a team around, and yet WR1 production has still been there. I think the history has shown me that I don't need to be worried about his QB situation somehow becoming worse in Cleveland. Because I know he could go somewhere with a better QB, but not get fed the same targets to produce depending who is on the team.


Do you think he gets anywhere near 19 targets on the Lions? Redskins? Patriots? Hell no. Opportunity is a big piece in all of this, and he & Cameron work well with eachother and both guys are QB proof as far as I'm concerned. Sure, if you pick the most dreadful QB's ever you could make a case that it could workout worse, but there is far more evidence to show that it will work out no matter who is the QB in Cleveland. Sanchez was killing the WR's in NY, then they get a 2nd rd QB who is nothing special but he can at least throw, and all of a sudden Stephen Hill and Holmes have value again. It would be pretty hard for Cleveland to draft a QB who is FAR worse then the last 2 guys, and I'd rather he take his chances there with a new QB or by keeping Hoyer vs going somewhere with a better QB but who spreads the ball around more.

His game this week was great, however it was against a secondary mauled by injuries. Also, now teams know Gordon is THE threat to contain and will make him their focus and not have to be worried about the run game. The idea that a WR is QB proof is a fallacy, there is no such animal. When a defense makes a WR their complete focus to stop because they don't have be concerned about the QB winning the game on his own, that receiver's production will be limited over time. Your example of the Jets' WRs this year is pointless unless you believe they will be elite with Geno Smith throwing to them. Your whole argument is based on the premise that Gordon is elite, or has the talent to be elite. On this we agree and it is exactly why I hope he is traded to a team with a proven QB. Based on this premise, he will have opportunities no matter what team he plays for. He had 19 targets and 10 catches this week, or barely over 50% success rate. Why? Because of the QB. I will repeat this fact again, there is no guarantee that the Browns get a franchise QB in the draft next year. It is very difficult to project the position of QB from college to the NFL. It is a realistic possibility they will be looking for one for several years...during which time Gordon will not be allowed to reach elite production type numbers. Now if you are happy with mediocre production from Gordon while a Jamarcus Russell/Alex Smith/David Carr -type of QB throws to him, that's on you. I hope Gordon is traded.

Starting off pretty slow today thus far.

I just wanted to see where everybody seems to rate Josh Gordon. I was reading an article earlier that said he could be the next Dez Bryant. I know that's a tall order but what are everybody's thoughts on him and why?

I'd say the big worry with him is the drug stuff and character issues. At this point it might be about 50/50 whether he's the next Dez or the next Britt.

i personally think dez is a stretch, but that doesnt mean he's not going to be a great player. i see some vjax in his game. maybe its the thought of him being in a norv turner offense for me and fitting that role that vjax played. i havent got to catch any games this year to see how he is being utilized (routes and such) i will say that last year he reminded me alot of mike wallace in his usage. he is a buy foresure. i dont think i would sell if i owned him. ive been trying to buy with guys like vjax and roddy, but havent had any takers on those offers. (both before he returned from the suspension.)

I think Gordon could very possibly match if not exceed Dez Bryant in the future. I'm not saying I would trade Dez for Gordon today, but in a few years, it is entirely possible. Gordon is 22 years old and has only played in 19 NFL games. He was away from football for a year prior to entering the league last year as a 21 year old. He is averaging 101 yds/game so far this year to go along with 2 tds and 18 catches. In the past 16 games that he has played, his stat line is 62-1031-7. Keep in mind he accomplished this with the Cleveland QBs. I know he ran a 4.52 at his pro day, but he reportedly ran in the 4.3s in college. The reason I mention this is he always seems able to get behind opposing secondaries. He plays very fast. The obvious red flag with him is off the field. If he can stay clean, his future is extremely good. In the interviews I have seen of him, he does not come across as a 'knucklehead', so I hope he can stay out of trouble and turn into an elite NFL WR.

cool_zapp wrote:I just wanted to see where everybody seems to rate Josh Gordon. I was reading an article earlier that said he could be the next Dez Bryant. I know that's a tall order but what are everybody's thoughts on him and why?

You're about 5 months late. Lots of posts the last few days on him as well.