2020 Rookie Synopsis - The Wide Receivers

[ericanadian]

So no one is concerned about Reagor’s abysmal agility score?

Not really. Doesn't look like an issue on tape to me. Also, so many WR skip those drills, it seems like they know they won't test as well either. If he hadn't tested, it wouldn't even be thought of as a concern.

Which WR has even tested well recently for agility? I was doing a quick search. AJ Brown was 47th percentile. DK was obviously terrible and we all remember his 3 cone being blown out of proportion.

This year, Ruggs, Lamb, Jeudy, Higgins and Jefferson all have incomplete data... Pittman's is 66th percentile but he seems to get a large bump for being 6'4. I get that it's harder to be agile being taller, but Reagor's scores are better and it's not like he's a small guy.

Most importantly... Reagor is also the same guy everyone expected to test better. He was at least expected to be in the 4.3 range for 40 but ran 4.47. He recently ran an "unofficial" 4.22 40 at his pro day and much better agility times.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... y.amp.html

With AJ Brown, 47th percentile is a hell of a lot better than 7th, which is where Reagor falls. 66th percentile is good. Not sure why you’re highlighting Pittman’s number as a bad score and I’m not sure what you’re talking about when saying Reagor’s scores are better.

The list of guys testing better than Reagor’s 11.77 is massive. Better than 11.2 and having a top 20 fantasy finish over the past ten years includes DeSean Jackson, Brandon Cooks, Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham, Michael Crabtree, Doug Baldwin, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson, Michael Thomas, Wes Welker, Roddy White, Mike Wallace, Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe, Amari Cooper, Tyreek Hill, Julian Edelman, Tyler Lockett, Pierre Garcon, Allen Robinson, Juju Smith-Schuster, Davante Adams, Alshon Jeffrey, Emmanuel Sanders, Chris Godwin, Cooper Kupp, Kenny Golladay, DJ Moore, Courtland Sutton, John Brown

Here’s that list for guys in that same group who tested at 11.7 or worse: Jarvis Landry, Allen Hurns, Kelvin Benjamin

You can add Dez Bryant, Robert Woods & Terrelle Pryor if you drop that target to 11.5.

13 guys didn’t test in that group, but I think it’s a hard argument to make that all those guys would’ve tested poorly.

I see that a lot of guys have forgone testing this year, but I suspect a couple of them would’ve tested at their pro day under normal circumstances. Even if they’ve determined not doing it won’t handicap their draft stock, does it make the test irrelevant?

I’m also not sure that Reagor shows better on film either. He’s fast and probably faster than his 40 shows and he might even be more agile as well, but when watching him against top corners in 2019 he tended to gain separation with speed and that’s about it. Luckily, he’s a beast on contested catches. I’ll likely look at him again before my draft, so take that opinion with a grain of salt.

Finally, I’m not sure Metcalf is much more than a deep threat with an elite QB. His catch rate was substantially below the rest of the Seahawks on everything but screens and balls with a DoT over 20 yards. 17 points worse on 12-20. 13 points worse on 6-12. 8 points worse on 2-6. That’s pretty one dimensional...

[straightcashhomie831]

So no one is concerned about Reagor’s abysmal agility score?

Not really. Doesn't look like an issue on tape to me. Also, so many WR skip those drills, it seems like they know they won't test as well either. If he hadn't tested, it wouldn't even be thought of as a concern.

Which WR has even tested well recently for agility? I was doing a quick search. AJ Brown was 47th percentile. DK was obviously terrible and we all remember his 3 cone being blown out of proportion.

This year, Ruggs, Lamb, Jeudy, Higgins and Jefferson all have incomplete data... Pittman's is 66th percentile but he seems to get a large bump for being 6'4. I get that it's harder to be agile being taller, but Reagor's scores are better and it's not like he's a small guy.

Most importantly... Reagor is also the same guy everyone expected to test better. He was at least expected to be in the 4.3 range for 40 but ran 4.47. He recently ran an "unofficial" 4.22 40 at his pro day and much better agility times.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... y.amp.html

With AJ Brown, 47th percentile is a hell of a lot better than 7th, which is where Reagor falls. 66th percentile is good. Not sure why you’re highlighting Pittman’s number as a bad score and I’m not sure what you’re talking about when saying Reagor’s scores are better.

The list of guys testing better than Reagor’s 11.77 is massive. Better than 11.2 and having a top 20 fantasy finish over the past ten years includes DeSean Jackson, Brandon Cooks, Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham, Michael Crabtree, Doug Baldwin, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson, Michael Thomas, Wes Welker, Roddy White, Mike Wallace, Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe, Amari Cooper, Tyreek Hill, Julian Edelman, Tyler Lockett, Pierre Garcon, Allen Robinson, Juju Smith-Schuster, Davante Adams, Alshon Jeffrey, Emmanuel Sanders, Chris Godwin, Cooper Kupp, Kenny Golladay, DJ Moore, Courtland Sutton, John Brown

Here’s that list for guys in that same group who tested at 11.7 or worse: Jarvis Landry, Allen Hurns, Kelvin Benjamin

You can add Dez Bryant, Robert Woods & Terrelle Pryor if you drop that target to 11.5.

13 guys didn’t test in that group, but I think it’s a hard argument to make that all those guys would’ve tested poorly.

I see that a lot of guys have forgone testing this year, but I suspect a couple of them would’ve tested at their pro day under normal circumstances. Even if they’ve determined not doing it won’t handicap their draft stock, does it make the test irrelevant?

I’m also not sure that Reagor shows better on film either. He’s fast and probably faster than his 40 shows and he might even be more agile as well, but when watching him against top corners in 2019 he tended to gain separation with speed and that’s about it. Luckily, he’s a beast on contested catches. I’ll likely look at him again before my draft, so take that opinion with a grain of salt.

Finally, I’m not sure Metcalf is much more than a deep threat with an elite QB. His catch rate was substantially below the rest of the Seahawks on everything but screens and balls with a DoT over 20 yards. 17 points worse on 12-20. 13 points worse on 6-12. 8 points worse on 2-6. That’s pretty one dimensional...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1198089987

[Jigga94]

What about Reagor's pro day times? Would those times put him in the magical 11.2 range? Seems to me like he just had a bad combine but to each his own

[straightcashhomie831]

What about Reagor's pro day times? Would those times put him in the magical 11.2 range? Seems to me like he just had a bad combine but to each his own

It should...i wouldnt be worried though. And i actually do believe he tried to bulk up and that's what slowed him up. Same would happen to anyone...Ruggs wasnt trying to bulk up. He wanted to run his fastest time posssible.

[Jigga94]

What about Reagor's pro day times? Would those times put him in the magical 11.2 range? Seems to me like he just had a bad combine but to each his own

It should...i wouldnt be worried though. And i actually do believe he tried to bulk up and that's what slowed him up. Same would happen to anyone...Ruggs wasnt trying to bulk up. He wanted to run his fastest time posssible.

Yeah 5'11 and 206 isn't a small WR. Not worried even if 4.47 was the real time but to show he can drop a few pounds and run ~4.2? I'm not worried about his speed or agility from a 40 or cone drills as I think it shows well on tape. Just looking at speed and size, I prefer Reagor to Ruggs but I think Ruggs is a bit better overall

[straightcashhomie831]

I think Ruggs is a better wr right now...Reagor is raw as a wr. But i like the versatility of Reagor...i think that gives him a greater upside. As a Niner fan...Reagor has some deebo to his game.

[ericanadian]

What about Reagor's pro day times? Would those times put him in the magical 11.2 range? Seems to me like he just had a bad combine but to each his own

The 11.2 isn’t magical. Plenty of guys finish in the 11.2-11.5 range and do alright. I just needed to cut back the list a bit and that seemed like a decent enough cut off to get a large enough list to make the point. His Pro Day numbers would obviously have to be adjusted upwards due to the nature of pro days... especially virtual ones. However, with a 4.0 shuttle and 6.74 3 cone, you’d need one hell of an adjustment to put him into the red.

It is pretty shocking that cutting 10 lbs would make such a huge difference. He’s claiming to have shaved a full second off his agility score and even if you adjust a tenth of a second for both tests, that’s still a massive improvement. Did he show up to the combine hungover?

[ericanadian]

Not really. Doesn't look like an issue on tape to me. Also, so many WR skip those drills, it seems like they know they won't test as well either. If he hadn't tested, it wouldn't even be thought of as a concern.

Which WR has even tested well recently for agility? I was doing a quick search. AJ Brown was 47th percentile. DK was obviously terrible and we all remember his 3 cone being blown out of proportion.

This year, Ruggs, Lamb, Jeudy, Higgins and Jefferson all have incomplete data... Pittman's is 66th percentile but he seems to get a large bump for being 6'4. I get that it's harder to be agile being taller, but Reagor's scores are better and it's not like he's a small guy.

Most importantly... Reagor is also the same guy everyone expected to test better. He was at least expected to be in the 4.3 range for 40 but ran 4.47. He recently ran an "unofficial" 4.22 40 at his pro day and much better agility times.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/ ... y.amp.html

With AJ Brown, 47th percentile is a hell of a lot better than 7th, which is where Reagor falls. 66th percentile is good. Not sure why you’re highlighting Pittman’s number as a bad score and I’m not sure what you’re talking about when saying Reagor’s scores are better.

The list of guys testing better than Reagor’s 11.77 is massive. Better than 11.2 and having a top 20 fantasy finish over the past ten years includes DeSean Jackson, Brandon Cooks, Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham, Michael Crabtree, Doug Baldwin, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson, Michael Thomas, Wes Welker, Roddy White, Mike Wallace, Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe, Amari Cooper, Tyreek Hill, Julian Edelman, Tyler Lockett, Pierre Garcon, Allen Robinson, Juju Smith-Schuster, Davante Adams, Alshon Jeffrey, Emmanuel Sanders, Chris Godwin, Cooper Kupp, Kenny Golladay, DJ Moore, Courtland Sutton, John Brown

Here’s that list for guys in that same group who tested at 11.7 or worse: Jarvis Landry, Allen Hurns, Kelvin Benjamin

You can add Dez Bryant, Robert Woods & Terrelle Pryor if you drop that target to 11.5.

13 guys didn’t test in that group, but I think it’s a hard argument to make that all those guys would’ve tested poorly.

I see that a lot of guys have forgone testing this year, but I suspect a couple of them would’ve tested at their pro day under normal circumstances. Even if they’ve determined not doing it won’t handicap their draft stock, does it make the test irrelevant?

I’m also not sure that Reagor shows better on film either. He’s fast and probably faster than his 40 shows and he might even be more agile as well, but when watching him against top corners in 2019 he tended to gain separation with speed and that’s about it. Luckily, he’s a beast on contested catches. I’ll likely look at him again before my draft, so take that opinion with a grain of salt.

Finally, I’m not sure Metcalf is much more than a deep threat with an elite QB. His catch rate was substantially below the rest of the Seahawks on everything but screens and balls with a DoT over 20 yards. 17 points worse on 12-20. 13 points worse on 6-12. 8 points worse on 2-6. That’s pretty one dimensional...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1198089987

I’m willing to give Reagor a bit of a pass based on his pro day, but this? It’s one play against 2018 Baylor. It’s a huge red flag that a guy who is obviously trying to prove a point had to go back to 2018 to find a play to demonstrate that point. The fact that he chose Baylor, who were awful in 2018, but managed to improve and be one of the better defenses in 2019 really makes this look intentionally deceptive. Baylor completely shut down Reagor in 2019.

[straightcashhomie831]

What about Reagor's pro day times? Would those times put him in the magical 11.2 range? Seems to me like he just had a bad combine but to each his own

The 11.2 isn’t magical. Plenty of guys finish in the 11.2-11.5 range and do alright. I just needed to cut back the list a bit and that seemed like a decent enough cut off to get a large enough list to make the point. His Pro Day numbers would obviously have to be adjusted upwards due to the nature of pro days... especially virtual ones. However, with a 4.0 shuttle and 6.74 3 cone, you’d need one hell of an adjustment to put him into the red.

It is pretty shocking that cutting 10 lbs would make such a huge difference. He’s claiming to have shaved a full second off his agility score and even if you adjust a tenth of a second for both tests, that’s still a massive improvement. Did he show up to the combine hungover?

Hungover? Id bet he doesnt even drink. And i doubt his former nfl player father would let him do that. I think its just that he put on an extra 10 pounds of muscle to his frame and he wasnt used to moving at that weight...but remember we are talking tenths of a second right? After all the tape ive watched on this kid...the agility do3snt matter to me. Ive seen enough. But i like how he came back and beat that time at his proday...proday times are always faster but i believe he ran at least a 4.3

[straightcashhomie831]

With AJ Brown, 47th percentile is a hell of a lot better than 7th, which is where Reagor falls. 66th percentile is good. Not sure why you’re highlighting Pittman’s number as a bad score and I’m not sure what you’re talking about when saying Reagor’s scores are better.

The list of guys testing better than Reagor’s 11.77 is massive. Better than 11.2 and having a top 20 fantasy finish over the past ten years includes DeSean Jackson, Brandon Cooks, Antonio Brown, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham, Michael Crabtree, Doug Baldwin, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Vincent Jackson, Michael Thomas, Wes Welker, Roddy White, Mike Wallace, Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe, Amari Cooper, Tyreek Hill, Julian Edelman, Tyler Lockett, Pierre Garcon, Allen Robinson, Juju Smith-Schuster, Davante Adams, Alshon Jeffrey, Emmanuel Sanders, Chris Godwin, Cooper Kupp, Kenny Golladay, DJ Moore, Courtland Sutton, John Brown

Here’s that list for guys in that same group who tested at 11.7 or worse: Jarvis Landry, Allen Hurns, Kelvin Benjamin

You can add Dez Bryant, Robert Woods & Terrelle Pryor if you drop that target to 11.5.

13 guys didn’t test in that group, but I think it’s a hard argument to make that all those guys would’ve tested poorly.

I see that a lot of guys have forgone testing this year, but I suspect a coupl4.3you th them would’ve tested at their pro day under normal circumstances. Even if they’ve determined not doing it won’t handicap their draft stock, does it make the test irrelevant?

I’m also not sure that Reagor shows better on film either. He’s fast and probably faster than his 40 shows and he might even be more agile as well, but when watching him against top corners in 2019 he tended to gain separation with speed and that’s about it. Luckily, he’s a beast on contested catches. I’ll likely look at him again before my draft, so take that opinion with a grain of salt.

Finally, I’m not sure Metcalf is much more than a deep threat with an elite QB. His catch rate was substantially below the rest of the Seahawks on everything but screens and balls with a DoT over 20 yards. 17 points worse on 12-20. 13 points worse on 6-12. 8 points worse on 2-6. That’s pretty one dimensional...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1198089987

I’m willing to give Reagor a bit of a pass based on his pro day, but this? It’s one play against 2018 Baylor. It’s a huge red flag that a guy who is obviously trying to prove a point had to go back to 2018 to find a play to demonstrate that point. The fact that he chose Baylor, who were awful in 2018, but managed to improve and be one of the better defenses in 2019 really makes this look intentionally deceptive. Baylor completely shut down Reagor in 2019.

Trust me ...there are many more plays that show this. Since his freshman year in 2018. But you have the right to doubt...we just have to wait and

[ericanadian]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 1198089987

I’m willing to give Reagor a bit of a pass based on his pro day, but this? It’s one play against 2018 Baylor. It’s a huge red flag that a guy who is obviously trying to prove a point had to go back to 2018 to find a play to demonstrate that point. The fact that he chose Baylor, who were awful in 2018, but managed to improve and be one of the better defenses in 2019 really makes this look intentionally deceptive. Baylor completely shut down Reagor in 2019.

Trust me ...there are many more plays that show this. Since his freshman year in 2018. But you have the right to doubt...we just have to wait and

Then why did a guy trying to dismiss doubts about his agility have to go back to 2018 against one of the worst college defenses to show that?

For me, I don’t try to judge whether a guy is fast or agile based on how his movements appear to me in a vacuum. He’s an elite athlete and he’s going to look impressive, especially when he’s moving relative to college players that will never see the NFL. I look to see if those moves are effective in establishing separation against top tier college players (because they’ll be the baseline of what he’ll face in the NFL) and I just haven’t seen that from the few games of all snaps that I’ve watched. Now, I don’t have coaches film, so what I see is often limited to the routes where he’s passed to and that is no doubt flawed, but it’s what I got. I’ll relook at him because the pro day numbers are impressive and I tend to do extra analysis on guys where I differ substantially from the general consensus. I’m not saying Reagor is hopeless. I just don’t share the immense optimism I’m seeing with regards to his abilities to create separation using something other than deep speed.

[straightcashhomie831]

that's fair. I also sort of agree with the long speed comment. Reagor is tricky because his 2019 tape is bad because the QB (i think read something like only 40% of his targets were catchable) and just a bad team. In 2018 he had a pretty good qb so he was able to show what he can do. NOW in 2019 i think he looked ALOT more quicker and explosive but you can't even tell because his QB is so bad. But the burst and everything is there imo...i think i see it more in 2019.

The things about Reagor that i like is he can make the contested catches and he catches with his hands. I know he had the drops and you cant excuse that but for me it would be alot different if he made alot of body catches AND had a lot of drops. But it's a fair argument for those who also worry about drops.

Overall i like Reagors skillset AND the team he's tied too...if Wentz can stay healthy i like his upside in Philly RN.

[ericanadian]

that's fair. I also sort of agree with the long speed comment. Reagor is tricky because his 2019 tape is bad because the QB (i think read something like only 40% of his targets were catchable) and just a bad team. In 2018 he had a pretty good qb so he was able to show what he can do. NOW in 2019 i think he looked ALOT more quicker and explosive but you can't even tell because his QB is so bad. But the burst and everything is there imo...i think i see it more in 2019.

The things about Reagor that i like is he can make the contested catches and he catches with his hands. I know he had the drops and you cant excuse that but for me it would be alot different if he made alot of body catches AND had a lot of drops. But it's a fair argument for those who also worry about drops.

Overall i like Reagors skillset AND the team he's tied too...if Wentz can stay healthy i like his upside in Philly RN.

No question on burst and contested catch. He comes off the line hard and even the best CBs give him a cushion of respect. He also shows that he doesn’t need much, if any, separation to make a reception. He’s very impressive and fun to watch. I just didn’t see a lot of separation outside of screens, slants and when he just blows by people. Maybe he’ll look better on a big screen. Watching on an ipad is making me go cross-eyed.

[Sriracha]

So no one is concerned about Reagor’s abysmal agility score?

He showed up to the combine 12lb's heavier than expected which is one of the reasons I believe his non-explosive combine drills were disappointing.

He clocked in as the 2nd fastest WR in this class in terms of gamespeed MPH (distant second to Ruggs), looks to have very good lateral agility on tape; and greatly improved upon both his 40 time and his agility drills during his "virtual pro day".

When you add to this the weird decision to test these athletes later on in the day than previous years; down agility testing across the board leading to most of the athletes forgoing agility drills at the combine...

I'm not worried. At all.

[ericanadian]

So no one is concerned about Reagor’s abysmal agility score?

He showed up to the combine 12lb's heavier than expected which is one of the reasons I believe his non-explosive combine drills were disappointing.

He clocked in as the 2nd fastest WR in this class in terms of gamespeed MPH (distant second to Ruggs), looks to have very good lateral agility on tape; and greatly improved upon both his 40 time and his agility drills during his "virtual pro day".

When you add to this the weird decision to test these athletes later on in the day than previous years; down agility testing across the board leading to most of the athletes forgoing agility drills at the combine...

I'm not worried. At all.

I didn’t hear about the decision to move back the agility drills. Interesting and would make sense given that even the best guys were in the low 11s, which is extremely uncommon.