Matthew Stafford Thread - Year 13 Rejuvenated in LA?

[dm1129]

If you go back and watch the tape, Stafford doesn't "constantly" throw to a doubled and triple-teamed Calvin. Are there a few times each game, yes. But to deny that Stafford is at all responsible for ANY success that Calvin has is rediculous. Stafford fell into a lot of bad habits last year and had fantasy owners frustrated. He's clearly cleaned some of those things up and has regained the confidence of many who had him in their top 5 dynasty QB rankings. Sounds like pure hating here with very little sound argument.

For the last time, Calvin makes plays that no other receiver can make. Because of this, he makes Stafford a better QB than he actually is. If Calvin was paired with at least a dozen or more other QBs currently in the league, he would have the same results. To say that Calvin's success is because of Stafford is not true. Stafford does facililtate Calvin to reach near his full potential. I have said before that I believe Stafford will have a career as a low end QB1 but he is not an elite talent and yesterday was not because of his brilliance. So that is not 'hating' as all of you have so eloquently like to claim. Meanwhile, Stafford was 19-32 159yds 0tds 2ints when throwing to anyone not named Calvin and 14-16 for 329yds 1td when throwing to Calvin.........You know, after typing that, everything became clear to me. You guys are right, yesterday was because of Stafford's brilliance.....lol.

[WZA]

If you go back and watch the tape, Stafford doesn't "constantly" throw to a doubled and triple-teamed Calvin. Are there a few times each game, yes. But to deny that Stafford is at all responsible for ANY success that Calvin has is rediculous. Stafford fell into a lot of bad habits last year and had fantasy owners frustrated. He's clearly cleaned some of those things up and has regained the confidence of many who had him in their top 5 dynasty QB rankings. Sounds like pure hating here with very little sound argument.

For the last time, Calvin makes plays that no other receiver can make. Because of this, he makes Stafford a better QB than he actually is. If Calvin was paired with at least a dozen or more other QBs currently in the league, he would have the same results. To say that Calvin's success is because of Stafford is not true. Stafford does facililtate Calvin to reach near his full potential. I have said before that I believe Stafford will have a career as a low end QB1 but he is not an elite talent and yesterday was not because of his brilliance. So that is not 'hating' as all of you have so eloquently like to claim. Meanwhile, Stafford was 19-32 159yds 0tds 2ints when throwing to anyone not named Calvin and 14-16 for 329yds 1td when throwing to Calvin.........You know, after typing that, everything became clear to me. You guys are right, yesterday was because of Stafford's brilliance.....lol.

You're wrong. When Calvin had any QB not named Matt a Stafford throwing him the ball his stats were no where near what they are when he has Matt Stafford throwing him the ball. Do your homework. Instead, you're just making strawman arguments like "at least a dozen QBs" could do what Stafford is doing with Calvin. That is not rooted in any factual evidence whatsoever. Again, look at Calvin's numbers prior to Healthy Matt Stafford. Calvin's pre-2011 numbers are not elite by any means.

I am a life long Lions fan. I've suffered thru every loss over the years. I have also watched every snap of Calvin's career. Calvin was a great WR his first few years in the league, but never truly became ELITE until he started playing with a healthy Matt Stafford. Look at the stats. It's clear as day.

It doesn't matter anyway. Haters gonna hate and trolls gonna troll.

[WZA]

In dm1129's own words from a previous thread about Josh Gordon. Enjoy...

Take a look at Calvin Johnson's first few seasons in the league or Fitzgerald recently. No matter how good a WR may be, it is extremely difficult to overcome poor QB play when defenses can focus on stopping a WR. To assume the Browns will get their franchise QB in the next draft is extremely risky. QB is a very difficult position to project from college to the NFL. Simply look at all the first round QB busts. I also think it is very unlikely the Browns will be able to get Bridgewater. I say get Gordon out of Cleveland to a team with a proven QB as soon as possible.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55836&p=478791#p478791



Hmmmmm....isn't this what everyone has been saying and you have been fighting against?

[holy_stromboli]

In dm1129's own words from a previous thread....

Take a look at Calvin Johnson's first few seasons in the league or Fitzgerald recently. No matter how good a WR may be, it is extremely difficult to overcome poor QB play when defenses can focus on stopping a WR. To assume the Browns will get their franchise QB in the next draft is extremely risky. QB is a very difficult position to project from college to the NFL. Simply look at all the first round QB busts. I also think it is very unlikely the Browns will be able to get Bridgewater. I say get Gordon out of Cleveland to a team with a proven QB as soon as possible.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55836&p=478791#p478791



Hmmmmm....isn't this what everyone has been saying and you have been fighting against?

Ooooo, feel that burn!

Dm1129 be trollin'.

So happy to be a Stafford owner for the first time ever this year. He has exceeded my expectations from an NFL-standpoint this year. Really showing growth. As such, the fantasy numbers have followed.

[WZA]

One more just to make a point...

Let me start by saying I'm a huge supporter of Gordon, I think he has the potential to be elite. In regard to game planning against Gordon going forward, yes there is a concern. Last year the Browns had Richardson in the backfield, this at the very least made defenses respect the run. Now defenses will make Gordon THE focus of their defensive gameplan combined with very questionable play from the QB position. Ask Fitzgerald how that combination works. No matter how good a WR is, defenses will usually be able to shut them down if the QB position is weak and the offense is one dimensional.

Hmmmmmm

Please dm1129.... Tell us more.

[WZA]

And it gets better. From the same Gordon thread...

The idea that a WR is QB proof is a fallacy, there is no such animal. When a defense makes a WR their complete focus to stop because they don't have be concerned about the QB winning the game on his own, that receiver's production will be limited over time.

No WR is QB proof....you don't say....

[WZA]

And it's all starting to make sense...

1.Jamaal Charles is the #1 RB finishing with over 1000 yds rushing and receiving.
2. Darren McFadden top 5 RB
3.Tom Brady and Matthew Stafford finish outside top 12 QB
4. Demaryius Thomas will be the #1 WR
5. Jared Cook Top 5 TE

[FiremanEd]

Regarding the 2 INT reference about Stafford to non-Calvin, that's not possible given that one of the INTs was to Calvin and bounced off his hands.

Not to say he doesn't throw to Calvin in double or triple team, but you can bet that they do it due to Calvin being Calvin. He can make those plays so they throw it out there sometimes. Some of the results are spectacular. That said, let's not act like some of the throws themselves are good. It takes two and they make one another better..not sure what the discussion is.

Regarding Stafford, he's got a cannon arm and good accuracy. Hard to believe he's still as young as he is too. Feel like he's been around a while. He's obviously very talented. You don't get those numbers if you aren't...they aren't all to Calvin, and they certainly don't have elite other options. I'm happy to have him as my fantasy QB, although last season left me hesitant. Very happy with the rebound.

[dm1129]

In dm1129's own words from a previous thread about Josh Gordon. Enjoy...

Take a look at Calvin Johnson's first few seasons in the league or Fitzgerald recently. No matter how good a WR may be, it is extremely difficult to overcome poor QB play when defenses can focus on stopping a WR. To assume the Browns will get their franchise QB in the next draft is extremely risky. QB is a very difficult position to project from college to the NFL. Simply look at all the first round QB busts. I also think it is very unlikely the Browns will be able to get Bridgewater. I say get Gordon out of Cleveland to a team with a proven QB as soon as possible.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55836&p=478791#p478791



Hmmmmm....isn't this what everyone has been saying and you have been fighting against?

Truly your lack of reasoning is astounding. I have repeatedly said Calvin could get the same results with at least a dozen other QBs in the league. That would imply that there are around 20 that probably would not get the same results. There is no contradiction. Try thinking before you post....

[WZA]

In dm1129's own words from a previous thread about Josh Gordon. Enjoy...

Take a look at Calvin Johnson's first few seasons in the league or Fitzgerald recently. No matter how good a WR may be, it is extremely difficult to overcome poor QB play when defenses can focus on stopping a WR. To assume the Browns will get their franchise QB in the next draft is extremely risky. QB is a very difficult position to project from college to the NFL. Simply look at all the first round QB busts. I also think it is very unlikely the Browns will be able to get Bridgewater. I say get Gordon out of Cleveland to a team with a proven QB as soon as possible.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55836&p=478791#p478791



Hmmmmm....isn't this what everyone has been saying and you have been fighting against?

Truly your lack of reasoning is astounding. I have repeatedly said Calvin could get the same results with at least a dozen other QBs in the league. That would imply that there are around 20 that probably would not get the same results. There is no contradiction. Try thinking before you post....

Yes, you have been saying that on this thread, but you said the complete opposite before. Did you even read what you posted?

[KMA]

Does anyone else hear that circus music in the background? Way to make an argument WZA. There should be laws against abuse like that. So precise he STILL doesn't realize what just happened.

[dm1129]

Yes, you have been saying that on this thread, but you said the complete opposite before. Did you even read what you posted?

Did you? In the other thread I was hoping for Gordon to be traded to a team with a franchise QB in order to fulfill his potential long-term. In this thread, I have already said Stafford is a low-end QB1, which would be top 12 in the NFL. Any reasonable person would agree that a top 12 QB is a 'franchise QB'. No contradiction.

In this thread, I have been arguing that yesterday's performance by Calvin could have been achieved if he was paired with at least a dozen QBs, in other words, top 12 QB. No contradiction.

There is no other WR in the league that approaches Calvin. Yesterday was an exhibition of Calvin's brilliance.

[WZA]

Yes, you have been saying that on this thread, but you said the complete opposite before. Did you even read what you posted?

Did you? In the other thread I was hoping for Gordon to be traded to a team with a franchise QB in order to fulfill his potential long-term. In this thread, I have already said Stafford is a low-end QB1, which would be top 12 in the NFL. Any reasonable person would agree that a top 12 QB is a 'franchise QB'. No contradiction.

In this thread, I have been arguing that yesterday's performance by Calvin could have been achieved if he was paired with at least a dozen QBs, in other words, top 12 QB. No contradiction.

There is no other WR in the league that approaches Calvin. Yesterday was an exhibition of Calvin's brilliance.

Please read the first couple sentences that you posted in the Gordon thread. In case you may be having trouble identifying the two relevant sentences, I have bolded, italicized, and underlined for you convenience. Then re-read my previous posts. Not quite sure how your statement below regarding Calvin and Fitz is any different from the point i and others have made in this thread.

dm1129 wrote:
Take a look at Calvin Johnson's first few seasons in the league or Fitzgerald recently. No matter how good a WR may be, it is extremely difficult to overcome poor QB play when defenses can focus on stopping a WR. To assume the Browns will get their franchise QB in the next draft is extremely risky. QB is a very difficult position to project from college to the NFL. Simply look at all the first round QB busts. I also think it is very unlikely the Browns will be able to get Bridgewater. I say get Gordon out of Cleveland to a team with a proven QB as soon as possible.

[dm1129]

Yes, you have been saying that on this thread, but you said the complete opposite before. Did you even read what you posted?

Did you? In the other thread I was hoping for Gordon to be traded to a team with a franchise QB in order to fulfill his potential long-term. In this thread, I have already said Stafford is a low-end QB1, which would be top 12 in the NFL. Any reasonable person would agree that a top 12 QB is a 'franchise QB'. No contradiction.

In this thread, I have been arguing that yesterday's performance by Calvin could have been achieved if he was paired with at least a dozen QBs, in other words, top 12 QB. No contradiction.

There is no other WR in the league that approaches Calvin. Yesterday was an exhibition of Calvin's brilliance.

Please read the first couple sentences that you posted in the Gordon thread. In case you may be having trouble identifying the two relevant sentences, I have bolded, italicized, and underlined for you convenience. Then re-read my previous posts. Not quite sure how your statement below regarding Calvin and Fitz is any different from the point i and others have made in this thread.

dm1129 wrote:
Take a look at Calvin Johnson's first few seasons in the league or Fitzgerald recently. No matter how good a WR may be, it is extremely difficult to overcome poor QB play when defenses can focus on stopping a WR. To assume the Browns will get their franchise QB in the next draft is extremely risky. QB is a very difficult position to project from college to the NFL. Simply look at all the first round QB busts. I also think it is very unlikely the Browns will be able to get Bridgewater. I say get Gordon out of Cleveland to a team with a proven QB as soon as possible.

Serously? You are going to use a post about the long-term/career potential of a WR being hampered by poor QB play to support your argument about a one game performance? It's apples and oranges. Stafford was far from brilliant yesterday. Calvin was brilliant. This thread has far outlived it's usefulness for me, I'm done.

[holy_stromboli]

Serously? You are going to use a post about the long-term/career potential of a WR being hampered by poor QB play to support your argument about a one game performance? It's apples and oranges. Stafford was far from brilliant yesterday. Calvin was brilliant. This thread has far outlived it's usefulness for me, I'm done.

I mean... don't you find it a little odd that not one person on the board so far has come to your defense on your argument? I'm actually pretty curious if anyone in here actually agrees with you right now.