SEA RBs - Walker v Charbonnet

[Jigga94]

Russ cooked now Gino can simmer? I will trade back and get Kendre Miller or Achance please and ty.

Honestly put me in this camp. Hoping Charbonnet just goes ahead of my picks so I dont have to make that decision. I prefer the backs you mentioned.

Was thinking about trading for Walker this offseason. Wanted to try and buy him but I doubt owners will devalue him enough for it to be worth it. Just going to stay away from this backfield at current costs, but I do think both Walker and Charb are good so maybe in the future one will become a buy low

[Bronco Billy]

Just more food for thought when I was researching Pete Carroll’s history in SEA that made my conviction on Charbonnet stronger after he was drafted. SEA’s records and rushing attempts, 4 highest and 4 lowest rushing attempts over the last 11 seasons:

Highest

2012. 536 att. 11-5
2018. 534 att.. 10-6
2014. 525 att. 12-4 Lost SB
2013. 509 att 13-3 Won SB

Lowest

2016. 403 att 10-5-1
2017. 409 att. 9-7
2020. 411 att. 12-4
2021. 413 att. 7-10

[trc]

Just more food for thought when I was researching Pete Carroll’s history in SEA that made my conviction on Charbonnet stronger after he was drafted. SEA’s records and rushing attempts, 4 highest and 4 lowest rushing attempts over the last 11 seasons:

Highest

2012. 536 att. 11-5
2018. 534 att.. 10-6
2014. 525 att. 12-4 Lost SB
2013. 509 att 13-3 Won SB

Lowest

2016. 403 att 10-5-1
2017. 409 att. 9-7
2020. 411 att. 12-4
2021. 413 att. 7-10

Did they rush this much, because they were already winning? Or did they win because of the rushing numbers?

Also the legion of boom was in early 10’s meaning they could have a lot of ball possession.

Just to add some perspective.

[frerichs5]

Just more food for thought when I was researching Pete Carroll’s history in SEA that made my conviction on Charbonnet stronger after he was drafted. SEA’s records and rushing attempts, 4 highest and 4 lowest rushing attempts over the last 11 seasons:

Highest

2012. 536 att. 11-5
2018. 534 att.. 10-6
2014. 525 att. 12-4 Lost SB
2013. 509 att 13-3 Won SB

Lowest

2016. 403 att 10-5-1
2017. 409 att. 9-7
2020. 411 att. 12-4
2021. 413 att. 7-10

Did they rush this much, because they were already winning? Or did they win because of the rushing numbers?

Also the legion of boom was in early 10’s meaning they could have a lot of ball possession.

Just to add some perspective.

I also see this as just following the NFL trend. 3 of those 4 high attempts were all the furthest back. The lower attempts are all more recent as the NFL has become more pass happy. Maybe Seattle wants to rush more and thinks it will lead to more winning, but right now I just view this as following the NFL trend more than anything.

[FantasyFreak]

Just heard a pod, and Schneider said he had Breece Hall and Ken Walker as top 15 players last year. Said Charbs compliments Ken really well. He's mentioned his upright running style a few times now, sort of negatively, and as big a fan as I am of Charbs, it's a concern for me, injury wise. There have been more upright guys that had been good, though. Demarco Murray comes to mind, though he had injury issues early.

Still, I have Charbonnet as my RB4, post draft. I was debating between he and Miller pre-draft, on which one I liked more, but I prefer Kendre's spot, and he's a year younger. I can't justify Gibbs below 2 post draft.

[killer_of_giants]

When an NFL team is spending 2nd round capital on a new RB it's saying "something" about the RB that's already there.

I'm not saying that as knock on KW - just speaking facts, SEA felt they needed more from the position. That by itself is no big deal. Every team adds depth and different types of runners. The big factor here is they used dang near a Top 50 pick...... That goes beyond just "adding another running back." Charbonnet is guaranteed a chunk of the offense, getting utilized early and often.

What semi-worries me about reducing the workload on a RB like KW is his play-style kinda needs to volume to offset the lost yardage when he's trying to hit those home runs. Some running backs need those 20 touches otherwise they don't find that momentum, they don't "connect" with the big play and they disappear in games.

When the team has access to another talented RB you get the whole "hot hand" headache as a fantasy owner. Now that's fun on gameday line-up decisions. You just know Pete Carroll is a "hot hand" guy. I can see the fantasy blurbs clear as day even as I type this now.

KWs value is substantial. I don't think it's a bad idea to use it to roll that value into an elite WR/QB i.e. someone safer.

Yeah, hit the nail on the head here. That's why Penny never found sustained success there, b/c they didn't give him enough runway to hit the big plays (THAT THEY DRAFTED HIM FOR).

oh i dunno. i think it's more about him being injured, he's been productive with 10-15 attempts.
and yes, he's been more productive with more touches but that shouldn't really sound strange...

my fiver is on carroll using charb/walker like he used carson/penny (respectively): one for the grind and the other for the breakout runs.
the seahawks historically don't pass to the RBs all that much, and both are "capable" receivers (charb more refined, walker more dangerous in space) so i don't see either having a proper "3rd down role" over the other. they complement each other well and they can both play on all 3 downs, so it will be a headache, for both defenses and fantasy owners.

[killer_of_giants]

Seattle also gave their QB decent short term money and drafted the best WR in the class in the 1st round. I am not sure it is safe to assume they are going more run heavy because of a player they took after the WR in round 2.

it's more to do with carroll being carroll, i suppose.

[Bronco Billy]

The pendulum is always swinging in the NFL. Coaches look for weaknesses across the line to exploit. The O sees the D and tries to figure out how trends are sitting and then tries to establish a definitive advantage, and the D reacts to the changes in the O by adjusting formations and players.

If we’re watching what has been going on in the most recent couple of drafts, we’re seeing some teams drafting into 12 personnel type players where both TEs are threatening receivers rather than tradition 12 settings where one of the TEs is pretty much a light OT who catch just a little bit.

I think HCs and OCs are seeing Ds getting faster and a lot lighter. We’re seeing DEs in the 240/250 lb range, LBs in the 220s, and teams deploying more DBs to combat the passing emphasis on O. The best way to go after a light D that is fast is to negate their speed and use their lighter weights against them by running straight at them.

I think we’re seeing teams getting ahead of the curve by using the 12 personnel sets. BAL, GB, PIT, NYG and TEN all now have offensive personnel where they can employ 2 TEs who can both block decently or better in the running game and can get downfield as very credible receiving threats. They’re going to be able to line up 7 across with mass advantage but also be able to mismatch Ds with the 2 good receiving TEs, causing Ds serious trouble. It’s a supercharged diverse 12 set.

Carroll has always loved to run the ball (ask Wilson advocates/FF owners who begged him to “let Russ cook”). I see him falling back into his run heavy offense these coming seasons with 2 strong RBs who can absorb 450+ carries between them, and the addition of JSN who can move into the slot is also a good run blocker. So instead of running a lot of 12 personnel I see SEA going 3 wide with JSN in the slot both as a dangerous receiving threat but also an additional blocker on run plays. It fits right into Carroll’s character, which goes all the way back to his college coaching where he liked to play smashmouth football and control the tempo of the game while physically grinding opponents into the field.

That’s what I’m betting on with Charbonnet because that fits his abilities and physicality so well. Just like some coaches looking to get ahead of the curve, that’s what I’m betting on in Carroll going back to his character and being part of the trend happening in the NFL.

[Jigga94]

Just heard a pod, and Schneider said he had Breece Hall and Ken Walker as top 15 players last year. Said Charbs compliments Ken really well. He's mentioned his upright running style a few times now, sort of negatively, and as big a fan as I am of Charbs, it's a concern for me, injury wise. There have been more upright guys that had been good, though. Demarco Murray comes to mind, though he had injury issues early.

Still, I have Charbonnet as my RB4, post draft. I was debating between he and Miller pre-draft, on which one I liked more, but I prefer Kendre's spot, and he's a year younger. I can't justify Gibbs below 2 post draft.

Also have Kendre as RB3. Then behind is Charbs, Achane and Roschon. I wanted to drop Charbs lower at first but putting a 2nd round RB behind a 4th feels like bad process. And I do think he will have a solid role in SEA, but Walker is very good as well. Still, not like the other rookie RB are bellcows either...

Brown, Spears, Tank, and Abanikanda round out my top 10 RB.

[Cameron Giles]

Just heard a pod, and Schneider said he had Breece Hall and Ken Walker as top 15 players last year. Said Charbs compliments Ken really well. He's mentioned his upright running style a few times now, sort of negatively, and as big a fan as I am of Charbs, it's a concern for me, injury wise. There have been more upright guys that had been good, though. Demarco Murray comes to mind, though he had injury issues early.

Still, I have Charbonnet as my RB4, post draft. I was debating between he and Miller pre-draft, on which one I liked more, but I prefer Kendre's spot, and he's a year younger. I can't justify Gibbs below 2 post draft.

Also have Kendre as RB3. Then behind is Charbs, Achane and Roschon. I wanted to drop Charbs lower at first but putting a 2nd round RB behind a 4th feels like bad process. And I do think he will have a solid role in SEA, but Walker is very good as well. Still, not like the other rookie RB are bellcows either...

Brown, Spears, Tank, and Abanikanda round out my top 10 RB.

It's good to see that some are getting past the initial disappointment. Charbonnet has a good profile, good draft pedigree, and has elite receiving value from this class.

Sure, there's a chance he's A.J. Dillon behind a good RB for four years, but a lot can change in dynasty.

[JTLoh]

Was offered K.Walker
for
K.Miller
2025 2nd

This morning.

[murphysxm]

Was offered K.Walker
for
K.Miller
2025 2nd

This morning.

I trust you said thank you may I have another.

[natjjohn]

Was offered K.Walker
for
K.Miller
2025 2nd

This morning.

Why do so many of these bad trade offers on top of not having any first rounders to make it worthwhile, the pick(s) included are years away making them even less meaningful.

[MacDaddy123]

I think that Walker and Charbonnet value are both capped as RB2's.
I see Walker getting the bulk of the carries between the 20's, and Charbonnet getting the goal line work and the passing down work.

However, looking at Seahawks past history, of running RB's into the ground, I imagine it might look like the Penny/Carson backfield, with whoever can stay healthy and take the pounding getting the majority of the work.

I tried very hard to move Walker before the draft, as I expected the Seahawks to draft 2 RB's, I did not expect them to take a back in round 2 though.

I offered Walker + 1.10 for the 1.01 6 weeks ago, and it was declined (12 team SF).
then I offered Walker for the 1.02, and that was almost accepted, but declined because the 1.02 owner thought Bijan might fall to 1.02.
Sigh.....I have the 1.06 pick, but I am not going to spend it on Charbonnet.

I traded away Pacheco and the 1.10 to move up to the 1.06.
Maybe I should have kept Pacheco and just taken Charbs at the 1.10.

[halfbaked88]

Just heard a pod, and Schneider said he had Breece Hall and Ken Walker as top 15 players last year. Said Charbs compliments Ken really well. He's mentioned his upright running style a few times now, sort of negatively, and as big a fan as I am of Charbs, it's a concern for me, injury wise. There have been more upright guys that had been good, though. Demarco Murray comes to mind, though he had injury issues early.

Still, I have Charbonnet as my RB4, post draft. I was debating between he and Miller pre-draft, on which one I liked more, but I prefer Kendre's spot, and he's a year younger. I can't justify Gibbs below 2 post draft.

Also have Kendre as RB3. Then behind is Charbs, Achane and Roschon. I wanted to drop Charbs lower at first but putting a 2nd round RB behind a 4th feels like bad process. And I do think he will have a solid role in SEA, but Walker is very good as well. Still, not like the other rookie RB are bellcows either...

Brown, Spears, Tank, and Abanikanda round out my top 10 RB.

It's good to see that some are getting past the initial disappointment. Charbonnet has a good profile, good draft pedigree, and has elite receiving value from this class.

Sure, there's a chance he's A.J. Dillon behind a good RB for four years, but a lot can change in dynasty.

Not that they are similar players, but interesting call with AJ Dillon from a potential value viewpoint. He had a ton of hype, as the clear RB2 behind an established RB (A Jones,) and people were still treating Dillon like a Top 15 dynasty RB. Lot of that was based on Jones leaving, but similar outcome for Charbonnet value wise is still possible as a 1A/1B.

For me, I think taking Achane/Kendre over Charb is bad process. If a Fournette/Zeke type etc signs in MIA I think Achane loses a lot of his luster almost immediately. I can kinda see taking Kendre due to the age of the RB room in NO and him having the BMI to take on more work if an opportunity would arise; but generally taking 3rd round RBs over a 2nd round RB just seems like bad process. Given what we know about how draft capital ties to the RB position.

If I remember correctly, Cris Carson was the motor in that offense. Carson was getting majority of the work over 1st round RB Rashaad Penny who was supposed to be the breakaway run guy. If that's what Carroll is trying to deploy then I'd say it's definitely not unreasonable to think Charbonnet ends up with more touches going forward.