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Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:28 pm
by ColdZealDonkeyStrike
They are similar level prospects, and one has an apparently easier player in front of him to beat out. That is why they are priced differently. Personally, I would rather have Foreman at his price and would prefer Foreman straight up if I had Miller.
YMMV on their price difference, Perine went higher in all of my drafts, but the difference was always less than a round: 9 vs. 12, 12 vs. 18, 9 vs. 17 (2 IDP guys in between), 13 vs. 20 (SF, 2 QBs in berween).
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:43 pm
by Valhalla
jtd1387 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:28 pm
They are similar level prospects, and one has an apparently easier player in front of him to beat out. That is why they are priced differently. Personally, I would rather have Foreman at his price and would prefer Foreman straight up if I had Miller.
YMMV on their price difference, Perine went higher in all of my drafts, but the difference was always less than a round: 9 vs. 12, 12 vs. 18, 9 vs. 17 (2 IDP guys in between), 13 vs. 20 (SF, 2 QBs in berween).
Seems reasonable to me
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:14 pm
by ArrylT
Perine vs. Foreman in all my drafts from May to now
16 Team current
Perine - 1.07
Foreman - 1.13
20 Team
Perine - 1.07
Foreman 1.19
16 Team
Perine - 1.06
Foreman - 1.14
16 team
Perine - 1.07
Foreman - 2.04
16 team
Perine - 1.14
Foreman - 2.05
12 team (superflex with ppc)
Perine - 1.06
Foreman - 2.09
12 team
Perine - 1.09
Foreman - 2.05
12 team
Perine - 1.10
Foreman - 2.03
12 team
Perine - 2.03
Foreman - 2.08
14 team (superflex)
Perine 2.02
Foreman 2.06
12 team (superflex)
Perine 2.06
Foreman 2.09
12 team
Perine 2.02
Foreman 3.01
12 team
Perine 1.08
Foreman 2.08
14 team
Perine 1.10
Foreman 1.13
12 team
Perine 1.08
Foreman 2.04
12 team
Perine 1.09
Foreman 2.06
12 team
Perine 1.12
Foreman 2.04
12 team
Perine 1.12
Foreman 2.06
12 team
Perine 1.11
Foreman 2.07
12 team
Perine 2.04
Foreman 2.05
14 team*
Foreman 1.07
Perine 2.02
* - Full disclosure this draft started on Saturday April 29th BEFORE Perine was drafted
16 team superflex
Perine 1.15
Foreman 2.05
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:24 pm
by Novacane
ArrylT wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:14 pm
Perine vs. Foreman in all my drafts from May to now
16 Team current
Perine - 1.07
Foreman - TBD
20 Team
Perine - 1.07
Foreman 1.19
16 Team
Perine - 1.06
Foreman - 1.14
16 team
Perine - 1.07
Foreman - 2.04
16 team
Perine - 1.14
Foreman - 2.05
12 team (superflex with ppc)
Perine - 1.06
Foreman - 2.09
12 team
Perine - 1.09
Foreman - 2.05
12 team
Perine - 1.10
Foreman - 2.03
12 team
Perine - 2.03
Foreman - 2.08
14 team (superflex)
Perine 2.02
Foreman 2.06
12 team (superflex)
Perine 2.06
Foreman 2.09
12 team
Perine 2.02
Foreman 3.01
12 team
Perine 1.08
Foreman 2.08
14 team
Perine 1.10
Foreman 1.13
12 team
Perine 1.08
Foreman 2.04
12 team
Perine 1.09
Foreman 2.06
12 team
Perine 1.12
Foreman 2.04
12 team
Perine 1.12
Foreman 2.06
12 team
Perine 1.11
Foreman 2.07
12 team
Perine 2.04
Foreman 2.05
14 team*
Foreman 1.07
Perine 2.02
* - Full disclosure this draft started on Saturday April 29th BEFORE Perine was drafted
16 team superflex
Perine 1.15
Foreman 2.05
I am literally getting anxiety from how many leagues you are in.
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:41 am
by clarion contrarion
chris R makes a good point , briles offense produces great NFL rb prospects !
I will piggyback a bit
jackie battle , ryan gilbert? anthony evans (2 years )? anthony aldridge(2) @ houston
jay finley (3) terrence ganaway lache seastrunck(2) shock linwood(2)
those are the annual leading rushers in the briles offense why would we ? a runner from that system just assume he will be a great NFLer
battle did actually finish 2nd to aldridge by a few yards but I included him as he has actually scored an NFL td - by all means draft foreman and think he will transition to the NFL without a hitch.
perine before during and after the draft for me
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:42 am
by WIZARD BEATZ
As many have said before, people are just following trends. They also believe a UDFA like Kelley can easily be usurped as the starter, making Perine more readily productive for their fantasy team. If the draft trends continue with the current ADP, you may be able to grab Perine in the late first and swing back and get Foreman in the second. I'm about to draft from the 1.07 and 2.07 spots(non-snake). I should be the first to crack what I have marked as my second tier of RBs, Hunt, Perine, Kamara, Foreman(not in any order). If all 4 are up there on my pick I may lean Hunt the most out of the 4. I have a good supply of young RBs, so I could afford to go Foreman as the best wait and see candidate, but I can't help but feel I'm overpaying, especially when he could end up on the board still at 2.07.
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:49 am
by _yeti
clarion contrarion wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:41 am
chris R makes a good point , briles offense produces great NFL rb prospects !
I will piggyback a bit
jackie battle , ryan gilbert? anthony evans (2 years )? anthony aldridge(2) @ houston
jay finley (3) terrence ganaway lache seastrunck(2) shock linwood(2)
those are the annual leading rushers in the briles offense why would we ? a runner from that system just assume he will be a great NFLer
battle did actually finish 2nd to aldridge by a few yards but I included him as he has actually scored an NFL td - by all means draft foreman and think he will transition to the NFL without a hitch.
perine before during and after the draft for me
1) What?
2) So now the measure of how a player will be as a pro is we look at the college system they were in and stack up what people have done in it?
Analogy- you could take Alabama, play them against a D-2 and run the exact same play every single down and it will still be a blowout. Coaching matters but it is the skill of the player that lands them in the league. Sure some systems will prop up people statistically, but to state with such authority that it is Perine over Foreman based on the type of college offense, and what players have played in that offense is a kind of weird theory to hang your hat on.
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:24 am
by Friction
WIZARD BEATZ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:42 am
As many have said before, people are just following trends. They also believe a UDFA like Kelley can easily be usurped as the starter, making Perine more readily productive for their fantasy team. If the draft trends continue with the current ADP, you may be able to grab Perine in the late first and swing back and get Foreman in the second. I'm about to draft from the 1.07 and 2.07 spots(non-snake). I should be the first to crack what I have marked as my second tier of RBs, Hunt, Perine, Kamara, Foreman(not in any order). If all 4 are up there on my pick I may lean Hunt the most out of the 4. I have a good supply of young RBs, so I could afford to go Foreman as the best wait and see candidate, but I can't help but feel I'm overpaying, especially when he could end up on the board still at 2.07.
I am in a similar boat too at 1.07. Could use a Rb or TE, but feel both are reaches and overpays there, regardless of who you choose. I even have Ware, so Hunt would make sense, but 1.07? Meh
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:51 am
by Balzac
clarion contrarion wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:41 am
chris R makes a good point , briles offense produces great NFL rb prospects !
I will piggyback a bit
jackie battle , ryan gilbert? anthony evans (2 years )? anthony aldridge(2) @ houston
jay finley (3) terrence ganaway lache seastrunck(2) shock linwood(2)
those are the annual leading rushers in the briles offense why would we ? a runner from that system just assume he will be a great NFLer
battle did actually finish 2nd to aldridge by a few yards but I included him as he has actually scored an NFL td - by all means draft foreman and think he will transition to the NFL without a hitch.
perine before during and after the draft for me
Yeah I have to agree. This is the biggest stretch of an argument out of the whole tread.
I'm pretty opposed to preemptively labeling a player as a bust, because of the program they came from never produced X. But to label a player a bust simply because he came from a similar system to a program that produced busts is getting out there, my man. With such certainty I might add.
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:23 am
by quarterroys
I've been targeting Foreman in the mid-2nd of rookie drafts after reading some of the rookie RB analysis done by Shawn Siegele and Kevin Cole, two of the sharpest analytics guys out there. Foreman scores extremely high on their respective RB prospect/success models (#1 in the class for both), and for a guy you can get in the mid 2nd round of rookie drafts, you don't have to burn a high value draft pick to acquire him.
Shawn Siegele:
http://rotoviz.com/2017/04/2017-rb-pros ... vid=3vzy42
Kevin Cole:
http://rotoviz.com/2017/03/the-2017-run ... vid=2KOesC
Siegele popularized zeroRB, and is one of the most successful high stakes players in the game. His advice led me to Melvin Gordon and Diggs last season. Cole used to host the Numbers Game podcast on Rotoviz, is an excellent analyst, and kills it in the SFB every year. When these guys drop knowledge, I listen.
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:05 am
by Chris_R
clarion contrarion wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:41 am
chris R makes a good point , briles offense produces great NFL rb prospects !
I will piggyback a bit
jackie battle , ryan gilbert? anthony evans (2 years )? anthony aldridge(2) @ houston
jay finley (3) terrence ganaway lache seastrunck(2) shock linwood(2)
those are the annual leading rushers in the briles offense why would we ? a runner from that system just assume he will be a great NFLer
battle did actually finish 2nd to aldridge by a few yards but I included him as he has actually scored an NFL td - by all means draft foreman and think he will transition to the NFL without a hitch.
perine before during and after the draft for me
How did you get that from my post? It was only to illustrate that passing to the RB is not a function of that offense. Has nothing to do with anything else.
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:18 am
by maxhyde
Balzac wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:51 am
clarion contrarion wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:41 am
chris R makes a good point , briles offense produces great NFL rb prospects !
I will piggyback a bit
jackie battle , ryan gilbert? anthony evans (2 years )? anthony aldridge(2) @ houston
jay finley (3) terrence ganaway lache seastrunck(2) shock linwood(2)
those are the annual leading rushers in the briles offense why would we ? a runner from that system just assume he will be a great NFLer
battle did actually finish 2nd to aldridge by a few yards but I included him as he has actually scored an NFL td - by all means draft foreman and think he will transition to the NFL without a hitch.
perine before during and after the draft for me
Yeah I have to agree. This is the biggest stretch of an argument out of the whole tread.
I'm pretty opposed to preemptively labeling a player as a bust, because of the program they came from never produced X. But to label a player a bust simply because he came from a similar system to a program that produced busts is getting out there, my man. With such certainty I might add.
But this "
perine before during and after the draft for me" is the best thing said the whole thread maybe...
Situation doesn't change players....If you liked Perine before the draft you will like him after. If you liked Formean nothing should change and go Foreman...
Trying to play the ADP game in your draft is not something I do very often or recommend if you feel strongly about a player
...and really? college system/coaching/conference/opponent is not a factor? I call BS on that...it IS a factor. Have no idea how you can watch games and evaluate players in college without considering coaching/system/opponents. All these top drafted spread QB's that fail isn't slightly concerning? All the USC WR's/QB's? I mean I get it shouldn't be everything but it should at least be considered in your evaluation no?...to not consider all info is more of a WTF for me
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:25 am
by _yeti
How do you get us as saying "college system/coaching/conference/opponent is not a factor?"
That's an exagerration of our response. Clarion starts naming RBs who have played in a particular offensive system as a reason why a player can't have success in the NFL, and as that being the definitive indicator, not a single factor. We call bs on that. Then you stretch it to the reasoning that we are basically saying nothing that happened in college matters. Lines of logic here have gone haywire
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:45 am
by maxhyde
So because he didn't re-hash/summarize all the previous arguments his point is the only one he has and used exclusively to make a decision?
Might be best to assume new posts are additional information not the entirety of a decision process
Re: Why is Perine being taken a round before Foreman?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:58 am
by DLF3000
That WAS offense is a bit overrated for this year, but that's still the reason, plain and simple.