Damien Williams - convince me

[Huh]

So Vahalla inspired me to go back and look at Williams stats from his dolphins days and this guy was not utilized at all. Even with minimal usage he had 20 catches every year he was there, giving us a glimpse of his recieving chops. Everyone saying undrafted players will take a back seat to drafted players is correct. When that undrafted player is on his original team, that is. Williams has wiped that monkey off his back by earning a second contract from his second team. If the chiefs can get past that, why can’t we?

[Phaded]

He was not utilized at all because he was not very good.

Not because of his undrafted status.

I do not think the undrafted thing is the issue.

But on that note; undrafted running backs only sustain value in exceedingly rare situations.

Here is an article supporting Damien Williams.
While I do not remotely agree with this article, I like throwing fuel on the fire.

[ArrylT]

So Vahalla inspired me to go back and look at Williams stats from his dolphins days and this guy was not utilized at all. Even with minimal usage he had 20 catches every year he was there, giving us a glimpse of his recieving chops. Everyone saying undrafted players will take a back seat to drafted players is correct. When that undrafted player is on his original team, that is. Williams has wiped that monkey off his back by earning a second contract from his second team. If the chiefs can get past that, why can’t we?

It is human nature / we are hard-wired to be resistant to (a) change and especially (b) open to changing our minds. Putting a player in a JAG box is easy. Taking him out and admitting he might have value is much harder.

[Cameron Giles]

He was not utilized at all because he was not very good.

Not because of his undrafted status.

I do not think the undrafted thing is the issue.

But on that note; undrafted running backs only sustain value in exceedingly rare situations.

Here is an article supporting Damien Williams.
While I do not remotely agree with this article, I like throwing fuel on the fire.

This is true, but at the same time, do you really expect a team to give an undrafted RB preference over:

Kenyan Drake (3rd round pick)
Lamar Miller (4th round pick)
Jay Ajayi (5th round pick)
+ Knowshon Moreno, Arian Foster

at various points during his Dolphins run. It doesn't seem very likely.

I think it's pretty clear that his rushing last season was a product of KC's offensive line, but his receiving game was a lot better than anticipated. He ran the same routes that Kareem Hunt did and looked good doing it. That isn't something enhanced by a system.

To me, at the bare minimum Williams is going to dominate passing downs next season.

[ArrylT]

Yes very good point - draft capital plus coaches preference can play a key role in determining opportunity.

[Valhalla]

So Vahalla inspired me to go back and look at Williams stats from his dolphins days and this guy was not utilized at all. Even with minimal usage he had 20 catches every year he was there, giving us a glimpse of his recieving chops. Everyone saying undrafted players will take a back seat to drafted players is correct. When that undrafted player is on his original team, that is. Williams has wiped that monkey off his back by earning a second contract from his second team. If the chiefs can get past that, why can’t we?

I like him as a receiving back. I put some stat facts in there that support a belief that Williams is superior to Hyde in the receiving game.
I just don’t think he’s the superior runner. The objective findings (their careers) don’t indicate so, either.
I think there’s a LOT of recency bias going on in this case. Williams put up two 100 yard games recently, his best ever game coming in a massively viewed event. He put up a handful of 30-50 yard games around that...including a 10 for 30 output against the Pats. Not the greatest rushing output in the most important game. He excelled in the receiving game against the Pats, though. I think people remember the touchdowns and the fantasy points in the playoffs and that equates to being the bell cow. Personally, I think Reid wants more out of the ground game, and would prefer to use Damien in the 3rd down or passing down situations, which he has always been decent at.

[FantasyFreak]

So Vahalla inspired me to go back and look at Williams stats from his dolphins days and this guy was not utilized at all. Even with minimal usage he had 20 catches every year he was there, giving us a glimpse of his recieving chops. Everyone saying undrafted players will take a back seat to drafted players is correct. When that undrafted player is on his original team, that is. Williams has wiped that monkey off his back by earning a second contract from his second team. If the chiefs can get past that, why can’t we?

I like him as a receiving back. I put some stat facts in there that support a belief that Williams is superior to Hyde in the receiving game.
I just don’t think he’s the superior runner. The objective findings (their careers) don’t indicate so, either.
I think there’s a LOT of recency bias going on in this case. Williams put up two 100 yard games recently, his best ever game coming in a massively viewed event. He put up a handful of 30-50 yard games around that...including a 10 for 30 output against the Pats. Not the greatest rushing output in the most important game. He excelled in the receiving game against the Pats, though. I think people remember the touchdowns and the fantasy points in the playoffs and that equates to being the bell cow. Personally, I think Reid wants more out of the ground game, and would prefer to use Damien in the 3rd down or passing down situations, which he has always been decent at.

I would agree with this. I think if Williams ends the year as a RB2 Williams owners should be happy.

[Ice]

So Vahalla inspired me to go back and look at Williams stats from his dolphins days and this guy was not utilized at all. Even with minimal usage he had 20 catches every year he was there, giving us a glimpse of his recieving chops. Everyone saying undrafted players will take a back seat to drafted players is correct. When that undrafted player is on his original team, that is. Williams has wiped that monkey off his back by earning a second contract from his second team. If the chiefs can get past that, why can’t we?

His new yearly contract average RB salary ranks 29th in the NFL. His average salary this season is less than Hyde's. He had a good few games this past season and deserves a shot but the body of work is extremely small.

The odds of a lot disappointed Williams owners this coming season is high.

[Huh]

So Vahalla inspired me to go back and look at Williams stats from his dolphins days and this guy was not utilized at all. Even with minimal usage he had 20 catches every year he was there, giving us a glimpse of his recieving chops. Everyone saying undrafted players will take a back seat to drafted players is correct. When that undrafted player is on his original team, that is. Williams has wiped that monkey off his back by earning a second contract from his second team. If the chiefs can get past that, why can’t we?

His new yearly contract average RB salary ranks 29th in the NFL. His average salary this season is less than Hyde's. He had a good few games this past season and deserves a shot but the body of work is extremely small.

The odds of a lot disappointed Williams owners this coming season is high.

I almost think his salary is irrelevant. Yes it’s pennies, but Dorsey put them in cap hell so they can really only afford to devote pennies to the rb position. And as far as I can tell Damien’s contract has more fully guaranteed money than Hyde’s so isn’t that what truly matters? Unless they take a rb in the first round their rb portion of the payroll is going to be minuscule and I think that’s by design. #rbsdontmatterinrealfootballonlyfantasy

[Ice]

The Chiefs currently have the 6th most money under the cap.

Just sayin.

[Huh]

The Chiefs currently have the 6th most money under the cap.

Just sayin.

Correct, I was going off of their precut cap numbers for some reason. Unfortunately it was achieved by cutting and trading vets. They do want to extend Mahomes as soon as possible which will be record breaking, so they have to plan for that. Some of the cap space was likely to be devoted to the huge reek extension that was supposed to be happening right now, but that is likely on hold and has handcuffed them. I bet they are pissed.

[Pullo Vision]

He was not utilized at all because he was not very good.

Not because of his undrafted status.

I do not think the undrafted thing is the issue.

But on that note; undrafted running backs only sustain value in exceedingly rare situations.

Here is an article supporting Damien Williams.
While I do not remotely agree with this article, I like throwing fuel on the fire.

This is true, but at the same time, do you really expect a team to give an undrafted RB preference over:

Kenyan Drake (3rd round pick)
Lamar Miller (4th round pick)
Jay Ajayi (5th round pick)
+ Knowshon Moreno, Arian Foster

at various points during his Dolphins run. It doesn't seem very likely.

I think it's pretty clear that his rushing last season was a product of KC's offensive line, but his receiving game was a lot better than anticipated. He ran the same routes that Kareem Hunt did and looked good doing it. That isn't something enhanced by a system.

To me, at the bare minimum Williams is going to dominate passing downs next season.

Curious what the impact of losing their starting center will be.

[Huh]

He was not utilized at all because he was not very good.

Not because of his undrafted status.

I do not think the undrafted thing is the issue.

But on that note; undrafted running backs only sustain value in exceedingly rare situations.

Here is an article supporting Damien Williams.
While I do not remotely agree with this article, I like throwing fuel on the fire.

This is true, but at the same time, do you really expect a team to give an undrafted RB preference over:

Kenyan Drake (3rd round pick)
Lamar Miller (4th round pick)
Jay Ajayi (5th round pick)
+ Knowshon Moreno, Arian Foster

at various points during his Dolphins run. It doesn't seem very likely.

I think it's pretty clear that his rushing last season was a product of KC's offensive line, but his receiving game was a lot better than anticipated. He ran the same routes that Kareem Hunt did and looked good doing it. That isn't something enhanced by a system.

To me, at the bare minimum Williams is going to dominate passing downs next season.

Curious what the impact of losing their starting center will be.

Probably won’t be good. There’s precedence here when Seattle traded max unger for jimmy graham. Saints line play jumped and Seattle’s stepped back. People say whatever it’s a center, but I hated that trade for the Seahawks and they are still trying to fix that line. Though unger just surprise retired so it wouldn’t help Seattle today if they would have kept him.

[Valhalla]

If there's a Damien that's going to dominate in KC, I think it's Harris.

[ninotoreS]

- Williams' speed to threaten edge contain, together with his ability in the pass-game, fits the spread concepts KC has embraced with Mahomes lightyears better than old, slow, and bad Carlos Hyde

- a seven-game sample is not small -- that's nearly half of a regular-season... they were also games that mattered, with Williams straight bellcowing the ultimate and most important ones in a steady progression toward touch-share dominance resulting from consistent performance

- Hyde has been worse than replacement level since 2017; there's a reason he was jettisoned by three teams in two years

- KC just got rid of their edge-rush this offseason with a draft ahead that's rich with pass-rushers. Take a wild friggin' guess what they're planning on doing Day 1 and 2.

- They sorely need to address linebacker and cornerback, too. And there's nothing of note at safety behind Mathieu. And they also probably need to look at WRs and TEs sooner than later with Hill imperiled and Kelce turning 30. All of these needs are greater than oh so replaceable RB need.

- Some of you just aren't appreciating what Brett Veach has told you. Veach thinks he found a squandered gem when he signed Williams for peanuts. Veach doesn't care Williams didn't do much in Miami, or that he went undrafted. He. Does. Not. Care. If you like, compare Veach to that dynasty football owner that plucks a guy off the waiver-wire before a sudden star turn, and despite all the conventional wisdom pundits predicting this zero-to-hero is fool's gold, that owner has already convinced himself he's right. That guy looks a lot like Brett Veach right now. The obvious essential difference being that we're talking about a General Manager of an NFL team that can actually make his favored son's success a fantasy reality.

- https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1100489687708385281