2021 QB thread

[ericanadian]

If Lawrence/Fields go 1/2, I wonder if they’ll break the fairly long run of guys going 1/2 where one is pretty good and the other sucks.

1993: Bledsoe/Mirer
1998: Manning/Leaf
1999: Couch/McNabb
2012: Luck/Griffin
2015: Winston/Mariota (Sometimes they both suck)
2016: Goff/Wentz

Goff and Wentz? Which one sucks?

Well, both of them weren’t great last year (though Goff seemed pretty clearly worse) and both of them still could be good, but Goff’s shown to be fairly limited outside an optimal situation. His arrow is definitely angling towards suck at this point. Wentz is probably closer to pretty good, but between injuries and inconsistency he could really go either way as well.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

If Lawrence/Fields go 1/2, I wonder if they’ll break the fairly long run of guys going 1/2 where one is pretty good and the other sucks.

1993: Bledsoe/Mirer
1998: Manning/Leaf
1999: Couch/McNabb
2012: Luck/Griffin
2015: Winston/Mariota (Sometimes they both suck)
2016: Goff/Wentz

Goff and Wentz? Which one sucks?

Well, both of them weren’t great last year (though Goff seemed pretty clearly worse) and both of them still could be good, but Goff’s shown to be fairly limited outside an optimal situation. His arrow is definitely angling towards suck at this point. Wentz is probably closer to pretty good, but between injuries and inconsistency he could really go either way as well.

i can't agree with that. goff preformed miracles back there last season not to get sacked every second down. mcvay's scheme wasn't working anymore, the running game wasn't working anymore, teams had caught up to the 11 personnel. the oline was beyond bad. what pocket passer can function when under constant pressure? just have a look at brady and brees when they're under constant attack.

once mcvay changed things up at the end of the season goff looked so much better. he moved him around to give him more time, used 12 personnel more, got the te involved. it was like day and night. the only bad game was against the cowboys when mcvay inexplicably went back exclusively to the 11 personnel and the cowboys d was all over it. the 11 personnel needs the oline to dominate for it to function and that wasn't happening last season.

mcvay needs to evolve and he hired an oc so he can. sometimes you need another voice to keep you in check.

[ericanadian]

Goff and Wentz? Which one sucks?

Well, both of them weren’t great last year (though Goff seemed pretty clearly worse) and both of them still could be good, but Goff’s shown to be fairly limited outside an optimal situation. His arrow is definitely angling towards suck at this point. Wentz is probably closer to pretty good, but between injuries and inconsistency he could really go either way as well.

i can't agree with that. goff preformed miracles back there last season not to get sacked every second down. mcvay's scheme wasn't working anymore, the running game wasn't working anymore, teams had caught up to the 11 personnel. the oline was beyond bad. what pocket passer can function when under constant pressure? just have a look at brady and brees when they're under constant attack.

once mcvay changed things up at the end of the season goff looked so much better. he moved him around to give him more time, used 12 personnel more, got the te involved. it was like day and night. the only bad game was against the cowboys when mcvay inexplicably went back exclusively to the 11 personnel and the cowboys d was all over it. the 11 personnel needs the oline to dominate for it to function and that wasn't happening last season.

mcvay needs to evolve and he hired an oc so he can. sometimes you need another voice to keep you in check.

Goff can go back to Fisher if he wants to complain about the offense tanking his career. McVay is the only reason Goff even became a thing.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

Well, both of them weren’t great last year (though Goff seemed pretty clearly worse) and both of them still could be good, but Goff’s shown to be fairly limited outside an optimal situation. His arrow is definitely angling towards suck at this point. Wentz is probably closer to pretty good, but between injuries and inconsistency he could really go either way as well.

i can't agree with that. goff preformed miracles back there last season not to get sacked every second down. mcvay's scheme wasn't working anymore, the running game wasn't working anymore, teams had caught up to the 11 personnel. the oline was beyond bad. what pocket passer can function when under constant pressure? just have a look at brady and brees when they're under constant attack.

once mcvay changed things up at the end of the season goff looked so much better. he moved him around to give him more time, used 12 personnel more, got the te involved. it was like day and night. the only bad game was against the cowboys when mcvay inexplicably went back exclusively to the 11 personnel and the cowboys d was all over it. the 11 personnel needs the oline to dominate for it to function and that wasn't happening last season.

mcvay needs to evolve and he hired an oc so he can. sometimes you need another voice to keep you in check.

Goff can go back to Fisher if he wants to complain about the offense tanking his career. McVay is the only reason Goff even became a thing.

he wasn't complaining, i was.

and now i see your angle. so because goff was a rookie with jeff fisher as hc, with some guy called boras as his oc, with a wr corps including kenny britt, brian quick and tavon austin, and he didn't light it up as a rookie it means that he is terrible for the rest of his career and any success he has is only due to mcvay. thank you espn, sports media talking heads analysis.

[ericanadian]

Also, with reference to your point on him improving with more 2 TE sets towards the end of the season, lets look at that. My understanding is that they flipped around week 11. For reference:

https://www.downtownrams.com/single-pos ... l-in-2020/

From weeks 11-17 last season, the Rams went from running 11 personnel almost 80% of the time to 58%. This is a 22% decrease basically overnight.

First game was against the Bears where he threw a total of 18 passes and got one pick and no TDs.
Second game was against the Ravens and he was actually involved in the passing game throwing 37 passes for a gutless 212 yards, zero TDs and two picks.
Third game was against the Cardinals who were the worst team in the league against the TE... so yes, more two TE sets and keying in on Higbee is going to work here.
Fourth game was against Seattle 31 passes for 293 yards two TDs (not bad) but also two picks.
Fifth game was against the Cowboys which you already admitted was not good.
Sixth game was against the 49ers and was decent, especially given it was against the 49ers.
Seventh game was against the Cardinals again...

Seems like three good games (two against a team known to be weak to the TE) and one okay game compared to three bad games. Is there something there that I’m missing?

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

yeah, i was only talking about the last 5 games when mcvay had goff on the move to give him some time to throw the ball.

[ericanadian]

yeah, i was only talking about the last 5 games when mcvay had goff on the move to give him some time to throw the ball.

Fair enough. I’m not really in on a sample size of five games when he put up big numbers against the cards twice, but I can understand your reasons for hope.

Anyways, apologize for being dismissive in my initial response on why Goff sucks. Was uncalled for.