Dynasty League Football Forum

Calling someone a good prospect doesn't really have anything to do with the preseason.

Blueboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:21 pm Calling someone a good prospect doesn't really have anything to do with the preseason.

Calling someone a good prospect is different than calling someone the “greatest prospect ever”.

There have been plenty of “great prospects” that fail, and plenty of “average prospects” that succeed. Too early to tell. I remember the Luck/RG3 debate. I remember the Leaf/Peyton debate. I hope it works out for Kyler/Kliff but right now it’s all just guess work.

From a college statistical efficiency standpoint, he can be argued to be one of the greatest QB prospects of all time.
From a classic tall big armed pocket passer QB that old timers were taught is the gold standard base model to develop from (a Josh Allen body), he is not even close to a great prospect.
The “model template” is arguably pretty flawed, though. I’m sure many others can make the argument as to why. I don’t feel like spending the time on the argument right now.

hockeyBjj wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:18 pm

TheNuts wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:04 am

esloan35 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:59 am I think its fairly simply what the problem is in AZ. They can't freaking block anybody! Until they get some Oline help they will be a dumpster fire.

Dumpster fire? That's overkill. Maybe it doesn't work as well as Kliff hopes, but I highly doubt the offense will be a dumpster fire with all the talent they have

What talent do they have? They have Murray, DJ, and a 36 year old Larry Fitzgerald. Draft picks rookie hopeful WRs that certainly aren't ready, and..... Do they even have a TE?

They have an amazing running back and that's about it

YUP, no Oline they will be doomed. I like Murray but hey, anyone who truly knows football knows the game is won in the trenches. They are lost up front.

Valhalla wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:29 pm From a college statistical efficiency standpoint, he can be argued to be one of the greatest QB prospects of all time.
From a classic tall big armed pocket passer QB that old timers were taught is the gold standard base model to develop from (a Josh Allen body), he is not even close to a great prospect.
The “model template” is arguably pretty flawed, though. I’m sure many others can make the argument as to why. I don’t feel like spending the time on the argument right now.

Are you seriously going to deride “the gold standard” model like that’s what anyone here is advocating for while completely ignoring the fact that his incredible efficiency numbers were built against the Big 12? Wasn’t Texas the team in that conference with the lowest average yards per play given up (they were 67 overall)?

Cult of Dionysus wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:59 am

knotts4372 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:17 am

Jason3123 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:09 am

You created this entire theory based on a couple of pre-season snaps? Put the keyboard away.

i just dont think murray is a good qb nor do i think kingsburys offense can work in the nfl. i thought these things way before he took an nfl snap. keyboard still out. how dare i disagree with what others think!!!

I don't understand how you can question his QB talent. The dude has lit it up at every level so far. His tape is extraordinary. He has some of the best QB numbers per PFF.

The knocks against him are his size, his lack of experience and potentially his study habits/football IQ.

But not his on-field abilities. That's just ridiculous.

I don't really remember this coming up as an issue but this would be the biggest concern to me over experience and size if true.

brward wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:14 pm

Cult of Dionysus wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:59 am

knotts4372 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:17 am

i just dont think murray is a good qb nor do i think kingsburys offense can work in the nfl. i thought these things way before he took an nfl snap. keyboard still out. how dare i disagree with what others think!!!

I don't understand how you can question his QB talent. The dude has lit it up at every level so far. His tape is extraordinary. He has some of the best QB numbers per PFF.

The knocks against him are his size, his lack of experience and potentially his study habits/football IQ.

But not his on-field abilities. That's just ridiculous.

I don't really remember this coming up as an issue but this would be the biggest concern to me over experience and size if true.

I heard praise for his football IQ throughout the draft. Not much negative.

esloan35 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:02 pm

hockeyBjj wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:18 pm

TheNuts wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:04 am

Dumpster fire? That's overkill. Maybe it doesn't work as well as Kliff hopes, but I highly doubt the offense will be a dumpster fire with all the talent they have

What talent do they have? They have Murray, DJ, and a 36 year old Larry Fitzgerald. Draft picks rookie hopeful WRs that certainly aren't ready, and..... Do they even have a TE?

They have an amazing running back and that's about it

YUP, no Oline they will be doomed. I like Murray but hey, anyone who truly knows football knows the game is won in the trenches. They are lost up front.

the air raid is specifically designed to mask o line issues, anyone who knows football knows this.

FuzzySignificance wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:22 am

esloan35 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:02 pm

hockeyBjj wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:18 pm

What talent do they have? They have Murray, DJ, and a 36 year old Larry Fitzgerald. Draft picks rookie hopeful WRs that certainly aren't ready, and..... Do they even have a TE?

They have an amazing running back and that's about it

YUP, no Oline they will be doomed. I like Murray but hey, anyone who truly knows football knows the game is won in the trenches. They are lost up front.

the air raid is specifically designed to mask o line issues, anyone who knows football knows this.

Ah a new revolutionary offense...

It's only revolutionary to Rex Ryan, Jeff Fisher & Co.

Teams have been (successfully) applying air raid concepts for a number of years. And we have all seen with the LA Rams how an eveloved offense can look, function and succeed.

If ARZ fails, it's not because of the scheme, but the personnel or lack of offensive lineman thereof.

esloan35 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:00 am

FuzzySignificance wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:22 am

esloan35 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:02 pm

YUP, no Oline they will be doomed. I like Murray but hey, anyone who truly knows football knows the game is won in the trenches. They are lost up front.

the air raid is specifically designed to mask o line issues, anyone who knows football knows this.

Ah a new revolutionary offense...

if it was new and revolutionary, everyone who knows football wouldn't know how it works.

Here is my take, i think they will actually do pretty well this year with this new offense, due to people not being able to plan well against it. But then, just like most "New" offenses, the defenses will catch up and game plan accordingly. We really wont know until year 2. I try very hard to not go by one year of any player or coach or scheme so i will reserve any judgement on this team until next year. IDC if murray throws for 6000 yards and 60 TDs, i want to wait until year 2 to make a judgement and see if he can play again. I have said the same thing about Mahomes and have gotten lambasted about it, but its how we should all try to think about these things. So to reiterate, i think they will do well this season but the fall off will come next season and thats when we will really see what Kyler and Kilff are made of.

The Browns offensive line is bleep too, are you all fading Baker, Chubb and Beckham as well? Or no because you've seen them be good so you don't have to use your awesome scouting skills? Burying the Cardinals after 2 meaningless pre-season games because you think you're an offensive line scout seems like terrible process to me but good luck.

Jason3123 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:18 am The Browns offensive line is bleep too, are you all fading Baker, Chubb and Beckham as well? Or no because you've seen them be good so you don't have to use your awesome scouting skills? Burying the Cardinals after 2 meaningless pre-season games because you think you're an offensive line scout seems like terrible process to me but good luck.

There is a difference, despite both being bad. Arizona is maybe No. 30, Cleveland is like 22nd best.

Blueboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:22 am

Jason3123 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:18 am The Browns offensive line is bleep too, are you all fading Baker, Chubb and Beckham as well? Or no because you've seen them be good so you don't have to use your awesome scouting skills? Burying the Cardinals after 2 meaningless pre-season games because you think you're an offensive line scout seems like terrible process to me but good luck.

There is a difference, despite both being bad. Arizona is maybe No. 30, Cleveland is like 22nd best.

How do you know that? They haven't played yet.