OTA's/Training Camp Discussion

[Needalife]

Daniel Bellinger getting some hype, working primarily with the 1st team offense.

Hope it continues. Such a low ceiling play in that offense, but as a WW pickup, hoping I can flip him for a profit.

Yep, I think that job will be RSJ's this season or maybe Aikens but it's a steep climb for Bellinger I think this season.

[Bronco Billy]

Bellinger is a poor man’s Kittle. Kittle had to wait half a season to start and didn’t have a huge rookie year, and his only competition then was Celek.

It may take a little for Bellinger to get some traction. I’m not sure how much value he’s going to gain in year 1, although he is dirt cheap right now (also paralleling Kittle). The concern for current Bellinger owners is if he does manage to bypass RSJ and Akins by the end of the year is that if you do try to capitalize, what kind of future upside are you willing to forego? Antsy Kittle owners who traded him away after his rookie year lived to regret it.

[thunderTung]

like ever year, all i hear from reports is how great everyone on my roster is doing.

Still waiting on these reports to turn into W's on my win column, but its gotta happen one of these year right?.... right?

[Bronco Billy]

like ever year, all i hear from reports is how great everyone on my roster is doing.

Still waiting on these reports to turn into W's on my win column, but its gotta happen one of these year right?.... right?

lol

Never have truer words been spoken. Same here.

[Sriracha]

Bellinger is a poor man’s Kittle. Kittle had to wait half a season to start and didn’t have a huge rookie year, and his only competition then was Celek.

It may take a little for Bellinger to get some traction. I’m not sure how much value he’s going to gain in year 1, although he is dirt cheap right now (also paralleling Kittle). The concern for current Bellinger owners is if he does manage to bypass RSJ and Akins by the end of the year is that if you do try to capitalize, what kind of future upside are you willing to forego? Antsy Kittle owners who traded him away after his rookie year lived to regret it.

Kittle had a fantastic rookie year.

At the time, he was one of 10 rookie TEs since 2000 with > 500 receiving yards.

[Bronco Billy]

Bellinger is a poor man’s Kittle. Kittle had to wait half a season to start and didn’t have a huge rookie year, and his only competition then was Celek.

It may take a little for Bellinger to get some traction. I’m not sure how much value he’s going to gain in year 1, although he is dirt cheap right now (also paralleling Kittle). The concern for current Bellinger owners is if he does manage to bypass RSJ and Akins by the end of the year is that if you do try to capitalize, what kind of future upside are you willing to forego? Antsy Kittle owners who traded him away after his rookie year lived to regret it.

Kittle had a fantastic rookie year.

At the time, he was one of 10 rookie TEs since 2000 with > 500 receiving yards.

And he finished ~TE30 in FF with one big week 5 and solid weeks 16 & 17. He just barely flashed that he was an up and coming stud.

[Sriracha]

Bellinger is a poor man’s Kittle. Kittle had to wait half a season to start and didn’t have a huge rookie year, and his only competition then was Celek.

It may take a little for Bellinger to get some traction. I’m not sure how much value he’s going to gain in year 1, although he is dirt cheap right now (also paralleling Kittle). The concern for current Bellinger owners is if he does manage to bypass RSJ and Akins by the end of the year is that if you do try to capitalize, what kind of future upside are you willing to forego? Antsy Kittle owners who traded him away after his rookie year lived to regret it.

Kittle had a fantastic rookie year.

At the time, he was one of 10 rookie TEs since 2000 with > 500 receiving yards.

And he finished ~TE30 in FF with one big week 5 and solid weeks 16 & 17. He just barely flashed that he was an up and coming stud.

Expectations for a rookie TE should be weighed against other rookie TEs. Just because he finished as the TE30 doesn't mean he didn't have a fantastic rookie season.

[thunderTung]

Kittle had a fantastic rookie year.

At the time, he was one of 10 rookie TEs since 2000 with > 500 receiving yards.

And he finished ~TE30 in FF with one big week 5 and solid weeks 16 & 17. He just barely flashed that he was an up and coming stud.

Expectations for a rookie TE should be weighed against other rookie TEs. Just because he finished as the TE30 doesn't mean he didn't have a fantastic rookie season.

Doesn't it though? Maybe we have different ideas of "fantastic" but if I hear someone say that a rookie TE had a fantastic year while having like 200 yards and 2TD's over the year i'd laugh at them. TE is a weird position, and I think most of us dont write off a TE's future because of his rookie year, but TE30 is by no means a fantastic year, even if your giving him the benefit of the doubt for being a rookie

[Bronco Billy]

Kittle had a fantastic rookie year.

At the time, he was one of 10 rookie TEs since 2000 with > 500 receiving yards.

And he finished ~TE30 in FF with one big week 5 and solid weeks 16 & 17. He just barely flashed that he was an up and coming stud.

Expectations for a rookie TE should be weighed against other rookie TEs. Just because he finished as the TE30 doesn't mean he didn't have a fantastic rookie season.

I don’t play in any rookie only leagues. I’d guess the majority of FF leagues only require 1 TE to start. If a rookie finishes as a TE30, it would be like being all-in on RB40 rookie in s start 2 RB league or on a WR52 rookie in a start 3 WR league. I’m not sure those kinds of players are going to see a significant increase in value or be considered cornerstones of a FF team by their owners. And I thought that was what we were discussing here.

[Sriracha]

And he finished ~TE30 in FF with one big week 5 and solid weeks 16 & 17. He just barely flashed that he was an up and coming stud.

Expectations for a rookie TE should be weighed against other rookie TEs. Just because he finished as the TE30 doesn't mean he didn't have a fantastic rookie season.

I don’t play in any rookie only leagues. I’d guess the majority of FF leagues only require 1 TE to start. If a rookie finishes as a TE30, it would be like being all-in on RB40 rookie in s start 2 RB league or on a WR52 rookie in a start 3 WR league. I’m not sure those kinds of players are going to see a significant increase in value or be considered cornerstones of a FF team by their owners. And I thought that was what we were discussing here.

And a players rookie season has no correlation whatsoever with their career trajectory?

I get where you're coming from but it's a silly distinction. If a rookie TE puts out 500 yards receiving that's a very positive indicator for their success if they were also efficient (by rookie TE standards) while doing so.

If you want to ignore that, that's fine. But Mark Andrews and Rob Gronkowski were also rookie TEs that fit those parameters.

[Bronco Billy]

Expectations for a rookie TE should be weighed against other rookie TEs. Just because he finished as the TE30 doesn't mean he didn't have a fantastic rookie season.

I don’t play in any rookie only leagues. I’d guess the majority of FF leagues only require 1 TE to start. If a rookie finishes as a TE30, it would be like being all-in on RB40 rookie in s start 2 RB league or on a WR52 rookie in a start 3 WR league. I’m not sure those kinds of players are going to see a significant increase in value or be considered cornerstones of a FF team by their owners. And I thought that was what we were discussing here.

And a players rookie season has no correlation whatsoever with their career trajectory?

I get where you're coming from but it's a silly distinction. If a rookie TE puts out 500 yards receiving that's a very positive indicator for their success if they were also efficient (by rookie TE standards) while doing so.

If you want to ignore that, that's fine. But Mark Andrews and Rob Gronkowski were also rookie TEs that fit those parameters.

So do Jeremy Shockey (by a lot), John Carlson, Dustin Keller, and Dwayne Allen (who I was admittedly high on). So where’s the silly distinction? They all fit your parameters and had better receiving and FF rookie seasons than Kittle.

TE is such a tricky position to figure. I also remeber being so high on Vernon Davis because he was so big, so athletic, was a good receiver and was built like a Greek God. Then SF turned him into a blocking TE.

[Sriracha]

I don’t play in any rookie only leagues. I’d guess the majority of FF leagues only require 1 TE to start. If a rookie finishes as a TE30, it would be like being all-in on RB40 rookie in s start 2 RB league or on a WR52 rookie in a start 3 WR league. I’m not sure those kinds of players are going to see a significant increase in value or be considered cornerstones of a FF team by their owners. And I thought that was what we were discussing here.

And a players rookie season has no correlation whatsoever with their career trajectory?

I get where you're coming from but it's a silly distinction. If a rookie TE puts out 500 yards receiving that's a very positive indicator for their success if they were also efficient (by rookie TE standards) while doing so.

If you want to ignore that, that's fine. But Mark Andrews and Rob Gronkowski were also rookie TEs that fit those parameters.

So do Jeremy Shockey (by a lot), John Carlson, Dustin Keller, and Dwayne Allen (who I was admittedly high on). So where’s the silly distinction? They all fit your parameters and had better receiving and FF rookie seasons than Kittle.

TE is such a tricky position to figure. I also remeber being so high on Vernon Davis because he was so big, so athletic, was a good receiver and was built like a Greek God. Then SF turned him into a blocking TE.

The point isn't that this is a full proof strategy to determine breakout TEs. Just that it's a positive indicator. And, FWIW Andrews, Kittle, and Gronk all showed their best football to close out the year in terms of YPRR.

TE is definitely a tricky position.. and of the elite TEs we've had (at least) 3 of the top TEs of all time follow this breakout pattern.. When it seems as if we have 10+ breakout candidate TEs every season that never do a damn thing... that seems like pretty good odds, no?

[ericanadian]

"I think, between Ward, Eno, Darrell, there's guys that are really going to be battling for that second spot and we're gonna need all of them at some point, I'm sure," Kingsbury said Thursday.

All four running backs bring something different to the offense, plus, Kingsbury didn't mention Keontay Ingram, whom Arizona drafted in the sixth round in April.

https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/news/c ... ompetitive

Doesn’t seem like good news for Ingram. I suspect Williams will get some action if Conner goes down, but Eno will be the primary complement in Arizona after passing Ward on the depth chart last year.

[FantasyFreak]

Bellinger is a poor man’s Kittle. Kittle had to wait half a season to start and didn’t have a huge rookie year, and his only competition then was Celek.

It may take a little for Bellinger to get some traction. I’m not sure how much value he’s going to gain in year 1, although he is dirt cheap right now (also paralleling Kittle). The concern for current Bellinger owners is if he does manage to bypass RSJ and Akins by the end of the year is that if you do try to capitalize, what kind of future upside are you willing to forego? Antsy Kittle owners who traded him away after his rookie year lived to regret it.

I'm doubt I will regret trading Bellinger away as much as Kittle owners did. In fact I'm almost positive. I tend to flip guys like this, unless I really believe in them. It's like the discussion people had with Ty'Son Williams (damn, one of the bad 2 letter before apostrophe players), and Michael Strachan. Flipping these guys will work out almost all the time. The odd time, you may miss out, but the overall process tends to work out. Bellinger does have better draft capital though, so I would want more than for either of those 2 examples.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

Bellinger is a poor man’s Kittle. Kittle had to wait half a season to start and didn’t have a huge rookie year, and his only competition then was Celek.

It may take a little for Bellinger to get some traction. I’m not sure how much value he’s going to gain in year 1, although he is dirt cheap right now (also paralleling Kittle). The concern for current Bellinger owners is if he does manage to bypass RSJ and Akins by the end of the year is that if you do try to capitalize, what kind of future upside are you willing to forego? Antsy Kittle owners who traded him away after his rookie year lived to regret it.

I'm doubt I will regret trading Bellinger away as much as Kittle owners did. In fact I'm almost positive. I tend to flip guys like this, unless I really believe in them. It's like the discussion people had with Ty'Son Williams (damn, one of the bad 2 letter before apostrophe players), and Michael Strachan. Flipping these guys will work out almost all the time. The odd time, you may miss out, but the overall process tends to work out. Bellinger does have better draft capital though, so I would want more than for either of those 2 examples.

preston williams is the poster child for this strategy. the amount of picks i shooed away because i thought he was wr1 material. unfortunately, getting injured in both of his first two years in the league marked the death knell to his career.