Are the Patriots "Tainted"?

[Unknown]

There is no proof whatsoever that the Patriots let air out of the balls. Only that at halftime the balls were below the threshold even though they were at the lowest level pre-game and all balls for both teams lost air during the first half. Add in the fact that no measurements were recorded pre game.

If you actually want a good bit of high comedy I highly encourage you to actually READ the report as opposed to the talking points. Here's a tidbit from page 116:
"Our scientific consultants ultimately informed us that the data alone did not provide a basis for them to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering." This is followed by a bunch of reasons why the Patriots MUST have tampered with them. So the Wells team paid a group of scientists to give their professional opinion and they couldn't find proof but Wells and his buddies got out their junior physicists set and conducted their own made up, non-scientific tests to prove that they must have been tampered with.

The Wells report even admits in writing that according to the Ideal Gas Law the balls should have lost 1-1.2 PSI by halftime (page 117).

I will literally link to the Wells report as it seems like many here are basing their opinions on media talking points and not on the report itself. Wells Report

I'll also link to an NBC article that details problem of the different air gauges used which clearly read consistently different numbers and Walt Anderson is not sure (nor did he record) which one was used pre-game http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ls-report/

The report is literally page after page of:
"Walt Anderson isn't sure if he used the gauge with the higher or lower readings on it pre-game and there are no records. We're going to assume he used the one with the lower readings."
"John Jastremski gave an explanation of a text that suggests it was not related to the inflation level of balls at all. We're going to assume he's lying."
"Tom Brady talked to us for an entire day but he had a lot of lawyers with him so it's not relevant what he said. He was probably lying anyway."
"Our scientists said there's no proof in the data of tampering. What do they know. We ran different experiments without them and determined they probably were tampered with."

Did you actually read the report? Literally, the very next sentence after the one you quoted about the scientific consultants is:

"Based on extensive testing and analysis, however, Exponent concluded that, within
the range of game conditions and circumstances most likely to have occurred on game day, they
could identify no set of credible physical or environmental factors that completely accounts for
the magnitude of the reduction in air pressure of the Patriots footballs or the additional drop in
air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls, as compared to the drop in air pressure
exhibited by the Colts game balls. Dr. Marlow agreed with this conclusion."

And where are you getting that they ignored their consultants and performed their own tests? They constantly refer to Exponent, the engineering consulting firm, and the analysis that they performed.

They also didn't use "the one with the lower readings" in their analysis. The report itself is pretty clear, and the appendix by Exponent thoroughly describes that they ran analyses accounting for the variability between the two gauges. There are multiple graphs showing the effect of the different gauges. They ran multiple statistical models, assuming that the gauges were/weren't switched and whether the Colts' third measurement was/wasn't switched. That

As for the Ideal Gas Law bit on page 117... later in that same paragraph they explain that Exponent converted the measurements into a "Master Gauge" pressure and showed that the Gas Law does NOT account for the pressure drops in the Pats' balls, but it does for the Colts'.

Exponent can't say with absolute certainty that the balls were intentionally deflated because that's not how statistics works. Technically, statistics can't prove with absolute certainty that smoking causes cancer. But they have pretty well shown that there's an unexplained loss of pressure affecting only the Patriot's game balls.

[TommyL31]

I will admit that I misread the passage following and that Exponent had done both the data analysis and experiments so I will happily retract that point.

But I think the point about the general demeanor of the report still stands. Most of their commentary seems to be focused on finding evidence of a particular conclusion and evidence counter to that point appears to be given less weight.

The "Master Gauge" comment which, as near as I can tell from their explanation, is based on a non-verifiable assumption that the Colts game balls started at 13.0 PSI and that the Ideal Gas Law is applying perfectly to their balls with no external factors affecting them or the Patriots balls is dubious at best. They go on to state that the Colts balls were used as a baseline later in the report. They also use these factors and the difference in Colts and Patriots measurements to say

"Exponent relied upon this information, as well as the fact that during the testing the Non-Logo Gauge never produced a reading higher than the Logo Gauge, to conclude that Walt Anderson most likely used the Non-Logo Gauge to inspect the game balls prior to the game, that Clete Blakeman most likely used the Non-Logo Gauge and Dyrol Prioleau most likely used the Logo Gauge to test the Patriots game balls at halftime, and that the game officials most likely switched gauges before measuring the Colts balls at halftime (with the one anomaly described above)."

So maybe I am misinterpreting this as well but it seems like they are saying that we are willing to assume that the 2 halftime officials switched gauges between measurements, will not mention the fact that Walt Anderson might have switched gauges pre-game between measuring the Pats balls and the Colts balls and by making all of these assumptions along with the assumption that neither gauge was faulty or used inconsistently between the three officials, and that the Colts game balls we at 13.0 PSI (recollection of Anderson with no recording) we can infer which gauge Walt Anderson must have used.

Not to mention that they later say that they took into account the atmospheric condition and timing between bringing the balls inside and measuring them but it is unclear and unstated whether they considered the time between the Pats balls and Colts balls being inside the heated locker room and measured.

Again, if you want to believe the Patriots intentionally cheated I'm fine with that but this evidence we're debating is just about whether the balls were inflated below allowable levels associated with natural factors. On top of that, they had to show prove that they were intentionally tampered with, and that Tom Brady had general awareness of the tampering.

And apparently they not only thought they had strong enough evidence to support that but that the evidence was strong enough (or crime heinous enough) to suspend Tom Brady for 4 games (equivalent of a second positive PED test) give the Patriots the biggest monetary fine in NFL history and dock them 2 draft picks including a 1st round pick which has only been done twice in the last 35 years (the other being SpyGate).

I think the confidence they display in the proof they've laid forward is overzealous and the punishment is inordinately large by any sane or reasonable measure unless you believe this was literally the worst thing done in football in the past 35 years.

EDIT: should clarify that the level of my frustration is a combination of the low and circumstantial level of proof they have, the nature of the alleged infraction, and the level of the punishment. They just seem entirely misaligned to me. If the punishment had been solely a 4 game suspension for Brady or two games for Brady and something along the lines of what the Browns or Falcons got for infractions which were much more at the team level than this was supposed to have been I would have shaken my fist and dropped it in 2 hours.

[kmbryant09]

Tommy - You conveniently left this part out of your argument
"Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range
predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. Indeed, once Exponent converted the game day measurements
recorded for each gauge into a corresponding “Master Gauge” pressure (in order to provide for a
direct comparison with the results predicted by the calculations), the measurements for all but
three of the Patriots game balls, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted
by the Ideal Gas Law.66 As a result, Exponent concluded that application of the Ideal Gas Law
within the context of the most likely game day conditions cannot account entirely for the
pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements."

[kmbryant09]

And you left this gem out from the scientists:

"Exponent concluded that, subject to the discovery of an as yet unidentified and unexamined factor, the most plausible
explanation for the variability of the Patriots halftime measurements is that the eleven footballs
measured by the officials at halftime did not all start the game at or near the same pressure, even
though they all measured at or near 12.5 psi when inspected by the referee prior to the game."

[Unknown]

Again, if you want to believe the Patriots intentionally cheated I'm fine with that but this evidence we're debating is just about whether the balls were inflated below allowable levels associated with natural factors. On top of that, they had to show prove that they were intentionally tampered with, and that Tom Brady had general awareness of the tampering.

And apparently they not only thought they had strong enough evidence to support that but that the evidence was strong enough (or crime heinous enough) to suspend Tom Brady for 4 games (equivalent of a second positive PED test) give the Patriots the biggest monetary fine in NFL history and dock them 2 draft picks including a 1st round pick which has only been done twice in the last 35 years (the other being SpyGate).

I think the confidence they display in the proof they've laid forward is overzealous and the punishment is inordinately large by any sane or reasonable measure unless you believe this was literally the worst thing done in football in the past 35 years.

EDIT: should clarify that the level of my frustration is a combination of the low and circumstantial level of proof they have, the nature of the alleged infraction, and the level of the punishment. They just seem entirely misaligned to me. If the punishment had been solely a 4 game suspension for Brady or two games for Brady and something along the lines of what the Browns or Falcons got for infractions which were much more at the team level than this was supposed to have been I would have shaken my fist and dropped it in 2 hours.

First, I'd like to apologize for any hostility I may have put forth in my post above. Rereading it now, I sound less than amicable at times. Not my intent.

The thing with the gauges is handled by their statistical approach. It falls under the general problem of rater agreement (i.e. you have two people measuring the same thing... they're not going to get the same measurement, even if they're using the exact same tool). I believe their master gauge approach handles it effectively.

The appendix goes over pretty much every question related to the methods they used to determine that natural conditions could not have completely accounted for the pressure drop. Full disclosure: I'm a statistician and am more apt to understand some of the things they're talking about. I believe the methods are sound and the conclusion of unexplained pressure drop to follow from the evidence Exponent has presented.

As for the rest of the argument, no, there isn't any direct evidence linking Brady to the deflation. But let's summarize everything here:

1. Gameday balls are unaccounted for during a brief period after initial measurements.

2. Video of Pats' equipment guy taking bag of footballs and disappearing into the bathroom.

3. Texts between equipment guys, clearly talking about letting air out of footballs. One guy calls himself the "deflator".

4. Those same texts refer to somebody named "Tom" who wants the balls at a certain pressure.

5. Unexplained drop in pressure in the Pats' balls (anybody questioning Giselle about this? )

I don't see how you can look at that and reasonably exonerate the Patriots entirely. Sure, its possible that the equipment guys were acting on their own. But that's hard to reconcile with point 4 - the "Tom" in question was at the very least asking for the balls to be at a certain air pressure. Yes, this is all circumstantial evidence. But when you put it together there's a very apparent conclusion. For all the lack of a "smoking gun" I have yet to see any explanation that takes those five facts and reaches a conclusion that exonerates the Patriots. I honestly don't see one.

And if none of that is true... what's the alternative explanation? That Goodell and the NFL executed a sting operation to sideline their Super Bowl winning golden-boy QB? How does that make them any money?

As for the magnitude of the punishment... perhaps its excessive compared to the Browns and the Falcons. But when they were caught, they admitted guilt, apologized, and moved on. The Pats and Brady stonewalled the investigation, and were exceedingly arrogant. Plus, this specific team has had previous offenses while this specific commissioner has been in charge. Did you hear Wells statement today? Apparently they asked for Brady/Yee (his agent or lawyer or something) to only give text messages relevant to the investigation. They didn't insist he turn over his phone.

Given all of that, I'm not surprised at the punishment. Heck, I'm surprised that Belichick gets off with nothing. If Sean Payton gets banned for a year because "ignorance is no excuse" then how is it fair that nothing happens to Belichick?

[kmbryant09]

Again, if you want to believe the Patriots intentionally cheated I'm fine with that but this evidence we're debating is just about whether the balls were inflated below allowable levels associated with natural factors. On top of that, they had to show prove that they were intentionally tampered with, and that Tom Brady had general awareness of the tampering.

And apparently they not only thought they had strong enough evidence to support that but that the evidence was strong enough (or crime heinous enough) to suspend Tom Brady for 4 games (equivalent of a second positive PED test) give the Patriots the biggest monetary fine in NFL history and dock them 2 draft picks including a 1st round pick which has only been done twice in the last 35 years (the other being SpyGate).

I think the confidence they display in the proof they've laid forward is overzealous and the punishment is inordinately large by any sane or reasonable measure unless you believe this was literally the worst thing done in football in the past 35 years.

EDIT: should clarify that the level of my frustration is a combination of the low and circumstantial level of proof they have, the nature of the alleged infraction, and the level of the punishment. They just seem entirely misaligned to me. If the punishment had been solely a 4 game suspension for Brady or two games for Brady and something along the lines of what the Browns or Falcons got for infractions which were much more at the team level than this was supposed to have been I would have shaken my fist and dropped it in 2 hours.

First, I'd like to apologize for any hostility I may have put forth in my post above. Rereading it now, I sound less than amicable at times. Not my intent.

The thing with the gauges is handled by their statistical approach. It falls under the general problem of rater agreement (i.e. you have two people measuring the same thing... they're not going to get the same measurement, even if they're using the exact same tool). I believe their master gauge approach handles it effectively.

The appendix goes over pretty much every question related to the methods they used to determine that natural conditions could not have completely accounted for the pressure drop. Full disclosure: I'm a statistician and am more apt to understand some of the things they're talking about. I believe the methods are sound and the conclusion of unexplained pressure drop to follow from the evidence Exponent has presented.

As for the rest of the argument, no, there isn't any direct evidence linking Brady to the deflation. But let's summarize everything here:

1. Gameday balls are unaccounted for during a brief period after initial measurements.

2. Video of Pats' equipment guy taking bag of footballs and disappearing into the bathroom.

3. Texts between equipment guys, clearly talking about letting air out of footballs. One guy calls himself the "deflator".

4. Those same texts refer to somebody named "Tom" who wants the balls at a certain pressure.

5. Unexplained drop in pressure in the Pats' balls (anybody questioning Giselle about this? )

I don't see how you can look at that and reasonably exonerate the Patriots entirely. Sure, its possible that the equipment guys were acting on their own. But that's hard to reconcile with point 4 - the "Tom" in question was at the very least asking for the balls to be at a certain air pressure. Yes, this is all circumstantial evidence. But when you put it together there's a very apparent conclusion. For all the lack of a "smoking gun" I have yet to see any explanation that takes those five facts and reaches a conclusion that exonerates the Patriots. I honestly don't see one.

And if none of that is true... what's the alternative explanation? That Goodell and the NFL executed a sting operation to sideline their Super Bowl winning golden-boy QB? How does that make them any money?

As for the magnitude of the punishment... perhaps its excessive compared to the Browns and the Falcons. But when they were caught, they admitted guilt, apologized, and moved on. The Pats and Brady stonewalled the investigation, and were exceedingly arrogant. Plus, this specific team has had previous offenses while this specific commissioner has been in charge. Did you hear Wells statement today? Apparently they asked for Brady/Yee (his agent or lawyer or something) to only give text messages relevant to the investigation. They didn't insist he turn over his phone.

Given all of that, I'm not surprised at the punishment. Heck, I'm surprised that Belichick gets off with nothing. If Sean Payton gets banned for a year because "ignorance is no excuse" then how is it fair that nothing happens to Belichick?

:: Mic drop ::

[TommyL31]

Again, if you want to believe the Patriots intentionally cheated I'm fine with that but this evidence we're debating is just about whether the balls were inflated below allowable levels associated with natural factors. On top of that, they had to show prove that they were intentionally tampered with, and that Tom Brady had general awareness of the tampering.

And apparently they not only thought they had strong enough evidence to support that but that the evidence was strong enough (or crime heinous enough) to suspend Tom Brady for 4 games (equivalent of a second positive PED test) give the Patriots the biggest monetary fine in NFL history and dock them 2 draft picks including a 1st round pick which has only been done twice in the last 35 years (the other being SpyGate).

I think the confidence they display in the proof they've laid forward is overzealous and the punishment is inordinately large by any sane or reasonable measure unless you believe this was literally the worst thing done in football in the past 35 years.

EDIT: should clarify that the level of my frustration is a combination of the low and circumstantial level of proof they have, the nature of the alleged infraction, and the level of the punishment. They just seem entirely misaligned to me. If the punishment had been solely a 4 game suspension for Brady or two games for Brady and something along the lines of what the Browns or Falcons got for infractions which were much more at the team level than this was supposed to have been I would have shaken my fist and dropped it in 2 hours.

First, I'd like to apologize for any hostility I may have put forth in my post above. Rereading it now, I sound less than amicable at times. Not my intent.

The thing with the gauges is handled by their statistical approach. It falls under the general problem of rater agreement (i.e. you have two people measuring the same thing... they're not going to get the same measurement, even if they're using the exact same tool). I believe their master gauge approach handles it effectively.

The appendix goes over pretty much every question related to the methods they used to determine that natural conditions could not have completely accounted for the pressure drop. Full disclosure: I'm a statistician and am more apt to understand some of the things they're talking about. I believe the methods are sound and the conclusion of unexplained pressure drop to follow from the evidence Exponent has presented.

As for the rest of the argument, no, there isn't any direct evidence linking Brady to the deflation. But let's summarize everything here:

1. Gameday balls are unaccounted for during a brief period after initial measurements.

2. Video of Pats' equipment guy taking bag of footballs and disappearing into the bathroom.

3. Texts between equipment guys, clearly talking about letting air out of footballs. One guy calls himself the "deflator".

4. Those same texts refer to somebody named "Tom" who wants the balls at a certain pressure.

5. Unexplained drop in pressure in the Pats' balls (anybody questioning Giselle about this? )

I don't see how you can look at that and reasonably exonerate the Patriots entirely. Sure, its possible that the equipment guys were acting on their own. But that's hard to reconcile with point 4 - the "Tom" in question was at the very least asking for the balls to be at a certain air pressure. Yes, this is all circumstantial evidence. But when you put it together there's a very apparent conclusion. For all the lack of a "smoking gun" I have yet to see any explanation that takes those five facts and reaches a conclusion that exonerates the Patriots. I honestly don't see one.

And if none of that is true... what's the alternative explanation? That Goodell and the NFL executed a sting operation to sideline their Super Bowl winning golden-boy QB? How does that make them any money?

As for the magnitude of the punishment... perhaps its excessive compared to the Browns and the Falcons. But when they were caught, they admitted guilt, apologized, and moved on. The Pats and Brady stonewalled the investigation, and were exceedingly arrogant. Plus, this specific team has had previous offenses while this specific commissioner has been in charge. Did you hear Wells statement today? Apparently they asked for Brady/Yee (his agent or lawyer or something) to only give text messages relevant to the investigation. They didn't insist he turn over his phone.

Given all of that, I'm not surprised at the punishment. Heck, I'm surprised that Belichick gets off with nothing. If Sean Payton gets banned for a year because "ignorance is no excuse" then how is it fair that nothing happens to Belichick?

No need to apologize for your tone. I took no personal offense and this is obviously something that many, including myself, get very heated about.

Regarding points 3 and 4 above. On the "Tom" thing, I have no doubts that when they were specifically talking about preparing the balls they were talking about Tom Brady. The relationships seem to be pretty clear that John preps the balls during the week, and Jim is responsible for gameday including making sure air pressure is set correctly (and that the refs don't tamper with them). Brady made it very clear that he likes his balls a certain way as does essentially all QBs but this accounts for feel and inflation level. The report seems to suggest that they had a pretty good handle on the general breaking in process during the week for quite some time but that they weren't paying as much attention to inflation level until the 2014 season. They were allegedly setting them the way they'd always set them (I guess back to Bledsoe's time?) until the 2014 game against the Jets. After which, Tom Brady yelled at John saying the balls felt like 'effing' bricks. John checked and the balls were at 16.0 PSI. After that John read the rulebook to get the official guidelines and from that point on it sounds like they intentionally set them to exactly 12.5 PSI and delivered them to the refs with a copy of the rule so that the refs wouldn't adjust them (as QBs like Aaron Rodgers have said they do). So it implies to me that the certain way that Brady likes them is less inflated and broken in and that he is going more on feel than on actual measurements. I don't see evidence that Tom was requesting that they be set below a legal limit or that he knew what the legal limit was.

In terms of calling himself "the deflator" that text message is without context so as to become meaningless. Do you know what the standard pressure of a new ball is? Is it 12.5? less? 13.5? More? If your QB likes balls on the soft side it would stand to reason that they would need to be deflated to get to that threshold. And that text came in May before it appears that they knew the exact regulations anyway so it seems to me to be a much more general comment. If this was a serial thing they've done for years then how would they not have caught and 'deflated' the Jets game balls prior to the end of the game? If someone was systematically deflating them after measurement how would they get that over inflated? John mentioned that, I believe, it takes an hour to break in 1 ball and Eli Manning if I recall correctly recently mentioned that it takes a month to break in a new ball (obviously not a straight month). But if the time preparing to balls across the NFL are so significant and Jim's job is largely around ensuring proper air pressure for a QB that likes a less inflated ball then regardless whether he's doing it to the legal limit before the measurement or after the measurement illegally deflating footballs is probably a significant part of his job.

Regarding the Sean Payton suspension vs. nothing for Belichick, the "BountyGate" system was allegedly set up by defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and Sean Payton allegedly tried to cover it up. Payton and GM Mickey Loomis also allegedly didn't shut it down when asked to do so by the team owner. Belichick, Kraft, and all other members of the Patriots organization weren't even suspected to be more than probably generally aware by the Wells Report.

Final note on this and then I'll probably stop checking this thread for a while because I don't think anyone's mind is being changed on either side and seems to largely depend on how convincing you find the Wells Report. If the report that the Patriots footballs during measurement of the Jets game in October of 2014 were found to be slightly low so the refs added air and then did not remeasure after adding the air to the point where the balls measured 16 PSI doesn't that make you wonder how much attention the refs actually pay to ball inflation level and how careful they are in the pregame process?

[Plank]

To me this is one of the biggest non-story of my generation.. who cares. I am under the impression that this was practiced by many QB's over the last few decades, think Brad Johnson even admitted preferring under-inflated footballs. One of those things that is common practiced and then all of sudden criticized and made a problem.

It does not taint the Patriots accomplishments in no way, shape or form for me .. its an issue that the NFL needs to address and correct going forward, the Patriots have just become the scapegoat for something the NFL has obviously allowed for a long time..

[RavingLunatic]

I just DGAF if they deflated the balls. I also doubt that they are the only ones to do that sort of thing or anything slightly shady that gets put under the umbrella of "cheating" that really doesn't make enough difference. The reason they are scrutinized more is because they win, so the Jets and the Ravens got mad and put them on blast. They wouldn't have said anything if they would have been able to beat the Pats at the time of the so-called scandal, but they couldn't or didn't and so they tattled.

I don't even like the Pats, but I like whiny losers who b*tch up a lot less.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong and it's a bigger deal than I think. Still hard-pressed to care which millionaire gets a trophy.

[kmbryant09]

To those saying that this is commonplace -

You really think most QB's (and teams) ask their ball boys to present balls to the officials for testing during pre-game within the rules - and then to doctor the footballs after that to make them what would otherwise be considered illegal?

Yeah, Aaron Rodgers likes them inflated as much as possible. Yeah, Eli Manning requires his balls be used for a month before their game ready. Most, if not all QB's treat their footballs in some way, shape, or form to get them ready for live action.

The reason why Brady & the Pats are being punished is because they presented them in a certain manner for official testing, and then treated them AFTERWARDS to get the balls to an illegal playing state.

[Dookmarriot]

Hearing scuttlebutt that "F---" Tom Brady (I think it's a great potential nickname) is putting together an OJ-esque legal team to fight the NFL on this one.

That would make for some spectacular theatre. But I wonder if Tom and his team have thought this through. If their goal is to protect the Tom Brady All American Boy brand, it might be best to take the suspension and keep quiet. If it goes to court, not co-operating is no longer an option, and he could be compelled to hand over evidence that he refused to during the NFL investigation. Even if he wins, you could see some other ugly stuff come out when they sift through phone records and the like. Unintended consequences and all that.

The Pats can handle being without Brady for four games. Hell, it might make him fresher for the playoffs - he's in his late thirties after all. And they can absorb the financial hit. If I were New England, I would be doing all I could to get the draft pick sanctions reduced. That's where it hurts.

[CrimsonKodiak]

Hearing scuttlebutt that "F---" Tom Brady (I think it's a great potential nickname) is putting together an OJ-esque legal team to fight the NFL on this one.

That would make for some spectacular theatre. But I wonder if Tom and his team have thought this through. If their goal is to protect the Tom Brady All American Boy brand, it might be best to take the suspension and keep quiet. If it goes to court, not co-operating is no longer an option, and he could be compelled to hand over evidence that he refused to during the NFL investigation. Even if he wins, you could see some other ugly stuff come out when they sift through phone records and the like. Unintended consequences and all that.

The Pats can handle being without Brady for four games. Hell, it might make him fresher for the playoffs - he's in his late thirties after all. And they can absorb the financial hit. If I were New England, I would be doing all I could to get the draft pick sanctions reduced. That's where it hurts.

Exactly ! sometimes the spectacle of the lawsuit and all that goes along with it supersedes the actual outcome of the case. OJ was found not guilty. but no one calls OJ the guy that didn't kill his girlfriend?

[CrimsonKodiak]

Yeah, Aaron Rodgers likes them inflated as much as possible. Yeah, Eli Manning requires his balls be used for a month before their game ready. Most, if not all QB's treat their footballs in some way, shape, or form to get them ready for live action.

My issue with all this is not that the balls were doctored. (every team manipulates the balls in a way that the QB likes) but that when it all came out Tom Brady said he wasn't aware they were doctored. A person who has maybe thrown a million footballs in his lifetime. A person who, like all the other QB's, likes a football with a certain amount of stud wear and a certain textural characteristics. Who then turns around and says he couldn't tell the difference between a regulation inflated football and an under inflated football.

I'm an accountant, and I like my keyboard and keypad just the way I like it. The rounding on the keys, the spacing of the keyboard, everything. so its akin to me saying "oh I didn't know the '6' key was missing". Come on Tom, it's insulting.

[TommyL31]

Hearing scuttlebutt that "F---" Tom Brady (I think it's a great potential nickname) is putting together an OJ-esque legal team to fight the NFL on this one.

That would make for some spectacular theatre. But I wonder if Tom and his team have thought this through. If their goal is to protect the Tom Brady All American Boy brand, it might be best to take the suspension and keep quiet. If it goes to court, not co-operating is no longer an option, and he could be compelled to hand over evidence that he refused to during the NFL investigation. Even if he wins, you could see some other ugly stuff come out when they sift through phone records and the like. Unintended consequences and all that.

The Pats can handle being without Brady for four games. Hell, it might make him fresher for the playoffs - he's in his late thirties after all. And they can absorb the financial hit. If I were New England, I would be doing all I could to get the draft pick sanctions reduced. That's where it hurts.

Exactly ! sometimes the spectacle of the lawsuit and all that goes along with it supersedes the actual outcome of the case. OJ was found not guilty. but no one calls OJ the guy that didn't kill his girlfriend?

Yeah, if this goes full lawsuit that isn't going to help Brady's image unless something crazy comes out like not only was there no cheating but they have video evidence that Roger Goodell was sabotaging the Patriots and framed them (which is obviously ridiculous). If Brady wants to just file an official appeal and see if he can get it knocked down to 2 that's one thing but this is the opposite of helpful to him.

[Dookmarriot]

Yeah, if this goes full lawsuit that isn't going to help Brady's image unless something crazy comes out like not only was there no cheating but they have video evidence that Roger Goodell was sabotaging the Patriots and framed them

Does it make me a bad person that I really, really hope that this what happens?