Training Camp Hype 2023

[FantasyFreak]

Woops, sorry, posted before I saw this.

No problem. See Juwan in your Sig.

https://twitter.com/RosvoglouReport/sta ... 5594925058

Bringing him up again, because he's had a great off season, had 2/29 on Carr's only drive, and followed it with this the first practice after the game.

https://twitter.com/Kat_Terrell/status/ ... 3891411329

I think he could be a top 12 TE this season.

I’m cautiously optimistic. TE29 on dlf seems waaaay too low. But after Mayer, Laporta and maybe Musgrave there isn’t anyone outside the top 12 that could challenge for a top 12 rank. So it comes down to Walker, Njoku, Dulcich to see if they can keep it together injury wise or taking a step forward.

Actually Engram is young enough I think he creeps into the top 12 this year. He is a buy for me if contending and a possible value but no matter what.

I was talking about scoring in the top 12 this season. I like Engram, but am a bit concerned that Ridley takes some of that production away this year. The counter to that is Lawrence just passes for more yards and TD's with the added weaponry.

[SteveMaddensShoes]

No problem. See Juwan in your Sig.

https://twitter.com/RosvoglouReport/sta ... 5594925058

Bringing him up again, because he's had a great off season, had 2/29 on Carr's only drive, and followed it with this the first practice after the game.

https://twitter.com/Kat_Terrell/status/ ... 3891411329

I think he could be a top 12 TE this season.

I’m cautiously optimistic. TE29 on dlf seems waaaay too low. But after Mayer, Laporta and maybe Musgrave there isn’t anyone outside the top 12 that could challenge for a top 12 rank. So it comes down to Walker, Njoku, Dulcich to see if they can keep it together injury wise or taking a step forward.

Actually Engram is young enough I think he creeps into the top 12 this year. He is a buy for me if contending and a possible value but no matter what.

I was talking about scoring in the top 12 this season. I like Engram, but am a bit concerned that Ridley takes some of that production away this year. The counter to that is Lawrence just passes for more yards and TD's with the added weaponry.

If Juwan is a top 12 scoring tight end I think he also moves into the top 12 in dynasty.

And I think Trevor just throws for more yards. But I might just be drinking the koolaid.

[FantasyFreak]

I’m cautiously optimistic. TE29 on dlf seems waaaay too low. But after Mayer, Laporta and maybe Musgrave there isn’t anyone outside the top 12 that could challenge for a top 12 rank. So it comes down to Walker, Njoku, Dulcich to see if they can keep it together injury wise or taking a step forward.

Actually Engram is young enough I think he creeps into the top 12 this year. He is a buy for me if contending and a possible value but no matter what.

I was talking about scoring in the top 12 this season. I like Engram, but am a bit concerned that Ridley takes some of that production away this year. The counter to that is Lawrence just passes for more yards and TD's with the added weaponry.

If Juwan is a top 12 scoring tight end I think he also moves into the top 12 in dynasty.

And I think Trevor just throws for more yards. But I might just be drinking the koolaid.

This is likely true. Agreed.

[mild]

And I think Trevor just throws for more yards. But I might just be drinking the koolaid.

Trevor without a doubt throws for more yards.

They replaced Marvin Jones Jr. with Calvin Ridley.

No Koolaid required there - that's like going from a Cessna to an F-16.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

Watson has been looking shaky in 11 on 11 drills, since early in camp, according to the Athletic.

I saw that. They called each drop-back pass "an adventure". I believe the reporter was saying they haven't seen him string consecutive solid pass reps together in 11v11 since very early in camp.

I know a lot of owners have been penciling him back in as an elite option "he'll come right" and all that. I did always wonder if such a public shaming would maybe break him a bit, mentally speaking.

There is also truth to the idea that Amari Cooper has barely been practicing, and that probably isn't helping given that he is the ostensible #1 option.

Lawd have mercy if it turns out the Cleveland Browns have made the NFL's first fully-garunteed 230 million dollar blunder.

Idk if I’ve posted about it here or not but I’ve found it odd that the fantasy community is 100% sure that he’s an elite option. He’s only thrown 30+ tds once in 6 years and has had many issues since that year and hasn’t looked the same.


As for Juwan Johnson, he is in the Waller mold - converted athletic WR. It doesn’t always work but I read about his work ethic last year and was all in. I think I have him on 4 of 7 teams. Betting he’s as good as Waller is probably not smart but TE29 is laughable. He’s also getting the QB that helped make Waller Waller.

[Pullo Vision]

Watson has been looking shaky in 11 on 11 drills, since early in camp, according to the Athletic.

I saw that. They called each drop-back pass "an adventure". I believe the reporter was saying they haven't seen him string consecutive solid pass reps together in 11v11 since very early in camp.

I know a lot of owners have been penciling him back in as an elite option "he'll come right" and all that. I did always wonder if such a public shaming would maybe break him a bit, mentally speaking.

There is also truth to the idea that Amari Cooper has barely been practicing, and that probably isn't helping given that he is the ostensible #1 option.

Lawd have mercy if it turns out the Cleveland Browns have made the NFL's first fully-garunteed 230 million dollar blunder.

It'd be interesting if there's a connection between shoe horning E Moore into heavy usage (even coming out of the backfield) and the offense's (reported) struggles. Stefanski builds strong run based offenses, so maybe he's not the best scheming a passing offense.

It'd be curious if this strengthens Kareem Hunt's negotiating position, especially with Ford injured.

[Pullo Vision]

Meanwhile on planet earth now that everyone has said their piece.

The top 3 players that jumped of the screen of the games I have seen that deserve some Hype

1) Aidan O’Connell
2) Deuce Vaughn
3) Nathaniel “Tank’ Dell

I would say Baker but everyone hates him. Let’s make fun of him for a while! There must be a cooking joke joke in there we can steal from Russ!

And people were giving me a hard time about AOC a few weeks ago. He's on my "add" list for my Superflex. I can't see Vaughn taking Pollard's job, but he's been getting some hype for sure. Same for Tank.

I've been stashing AOC and Stetson Bennett since my SF draft. Big fan of their opportunity. The best part?- one team has only 2 QBs, Jimmy G and Stafford... and I have their first round pick! Yep, waivers are bone dry.

[FantasyFreak]

Watson has been looking shaky in 11 on 11 drills, since early in camp, according to the Athletic.

I saw that. They called each drop-back pass "an adventure". I believe the reporter was saying they haven't seen him string consecutive solid pass reps together in 11v11 since very early in camp.

I know a lot of owners have been penciling him back in as an elite option "he'll come right" and all that. I did always wonder if such a public shaming would maybe break him a bit, mentally speaking.

There is also truth to the idea that Amari Cooper has barely been practicing, and that probably isn't helping given that he is the ostensible #1 option.

Lawd have mercy if it turns out the Cleveland Browns have made the NFL's first fully-garunteed 230 million dollar blunder.

Idk if I’ve posted about it here or not but I’ve found it odd that the fantasy community is 100% sure that he’s an elite option. He’s only thrown 30+ tds once in 6 years and has had many issues since that year and hasn’t looked the same.


As for Juwan Johnson, he is in the Waller mold - converted athletic WR. It doesn’t always work but I read about his work ethic last year and was all in. I think I have him on 4 of 7 teams. Betting he’s as good as Waller is probably not smart but TE29 is laughable. He’s also getting the QB that helped make Waller Waller.

Agreed. Good post on botht topics. Carr has been excellent at finding his TE over the years. Jared Cook played 2 years with the Raiders, and had 2 really good years when he was there, including his best overall season with 68/896/6, on 101 targets.

[Anteaters]

In 2021, the Ravens threw for 4,267 yards. The top 3 players received 1,361-Mark Andrews, 1,008-Marquis Brown, 515-Bateman. 6 WR/TEs had over 200 yards, RBs had about 400 yards.
For 2023, around 4,000+ yards seems reasonable with the Ravens planning to pass more. With Lamar not checking down to RBs often, seems a good 3,600 yards or more can be given to Andrews and the WRs. I can see Lamar supporting Mark Andrews and 2 WRs to be fantasy relevant this year, if they focus on their top 3 WRs and Andrews. All the fantasy analysis says it is Mark Andrews and the WRs will be battling for scraps. I think, not 1, but 2 Ravens WRs are being slept on. I think Flowers can be one of the WRs that benefits this year.

I agree 2 Ravens WRs will be fantasy relevant. I think the big problem for shareholders of Ravens WRs is guessing the correct two. Bateman? OBJ? Flowers? Not all three will have fantasy useful stats. Who's going to be the odd man out?

[Pullo Vision]

Can we talk about Elijah Dotson or something relevant and ignore the rest?

Yes, I've gotta look into him. He's been rising on the pickup lists. I'm seeing sharp differences in listed weight- 189 vs 202.

[trc]

In 2021, the Ravens threw for 4,267 yards. The top 3 players received 1,361-Mark Andrews, 1,008-Marquis Brown, 515-Bateman. 6 WR/TEs had over 200 yards, RBs had about 400 yards.
For 2023, around 4,000+ yards seems reasonable with the Ravens planning to pass more. With Lamar not checking down to RBs often, seems a good 3,600 yards or more can be given to Andrews and the WRs. I can see Lamar supporting Mark Andrews and 2 WRs to be fantasy relevant this year, if they focus on their top 3 WRs and Andrews. All the fantasy analysis says it is Mark Andrews and the WRs will be battling for scraps. I think, not 1, but 2 Ravens WRs are being slept on. I think Flowers can be one of the WRs that benefits this year.

I agree 2 Ravens WRs will be fantasy relevant. I think the big problem for shareholders of Ravens WRs is guessing the correct two. Bateman? OBJ? Flowers? Not all three will have fantasy useful stats. Who's going to be the odd man out?

I recall both you and Mild are high on BAL this season.
What kind of stat lines do you expect for them (Lamar, Bateman & Flowers)? I think Andrews is a lock to get fed.

My expectations are really tempered on BAL WRs, I just don't have that 'feeling' that Lamar will take a step up despite how the team is built. No doubt he will be an elite fantasy assets.
I would rather wait a year and see if it really happens, and then pay up, than hoping Lamar will take it to the next level.

[mild]

I agree 2 Ravens WRs will be fantasy relevant. I think the big problem for shareholders of Ravens WRs is guessing the correct two. Bateman? OBJ? Flowers? Not all three will have fantasy useful stats. Who's going to be the odd man out?

I recall both you and Mild are high on BAL this season.
What kind of stat lines do you expect for them (Lamar, Bateman & Flowers)? I think Andrews is a lock to get fed.

I'm definitely high on Baltimore being a better passing offense this year. Even just increasing the pace of play (they're usually one of the slowest) and installing more of the "layups" used in other modern passing offenses will help a tonne. Monken will know how to do that, that's definitely in his bag.

Where I'm going to slightly differ from Anteaters is with "guessing which pass catchers are going to be the relevant ones"?

Any TE that has the potential for 70+ yards and/or a TD any given week is a must-start in Fantasy. We needn't worry about Andrews, he's still a lock at the weakest position in Fantasy. He might never repeat 2021 - but he'll always be a Top 12 TE.

But the WR's could legitimately just alternate week-to-week. "Guessing the correct two" per Antman - I agree... but not as a season-long concept, I think it's going to be "who is going to pop off this week". They might just keep rotating; it's clear that all three top guys are very talented.

And just when you think there's a streak going - maybe this week will be the one that Dobbins goes nuts, or Lamar runs them all in himself.

There are a LOT of mouths to feed in this offense. I'm definitely higher on Baltimore as a passing offense in 2023 holistically - but I still think the only locks for fantasy are Andrews and Lamar, with all 3 WR's healthy.

[Anteaters]

I recall both you and Mild are high on BAL this season.
What kind of stat lines do you expect for them (Lamar, Bateman & Flowers)? I think Andrews is a lock to get fed.

My expectations are really tempered on BAL WRs, I just don't have that 'feeling' that Lamar will take a step up despite how the team is built. No doubt he will be an elite fantasy assets.
I would rather wait a year and see if it really happens, and then pay up, than hoping Lamar will take it to the next level.

I'm extremely high on Baltimore's offense this year. I think part of Watson's (fantasy) problems in Cleveland is the same thing that "held back" Jackson in Baltimore - the play calling. When a QB has a run-centric playcaller, the QB is going to have a difficult time consistent producing high-end fantasy stats. Unfortunately for Watson, I'm not sure Cleveland is ready to move to an offense that will support a T10 passing offense.

OTOH, Baltimore appears fully committed to having an offense that is pass first. Yeah, it will be (should be?) a very capable run offense, but the Ravens are now designed to eat up teams with the passing game. From the change in OC to the change in game plan and playcalling, to the change in the construction of the receiving depth chart.

No longer is Baltimore taking several flawed guys to be WR2-5 and HOPING one rises to be good enough to be a WR2/3 on any other quality NFL team. They've done that for years and for years that unwillingness to provide the offense with quality WR depth has held back the offense. This offseason, Baltimore filled the WR depth chart with quality proven veterans AND drafted a highly skilled rookie. This is a complete 180 from the past few seasons. And I think it's going to pay huge dividends for Lamars' passing stats.

Anyone who doesn't think Lamar is a good passer must be looking at film of another player. The dude can flat out throw. But my opinion doesn't really matter. What matters is the powers that be in Baltimore believe in Jackson's passing ability so much they've changed the entire offensive philosophy of the team, spent a ton of $ on improving the receivers, and are ready to dive in all the way.

My estimates are Jackson will have 4500yds/30TDs in the air and 700yds/8TDs on the ground. Andrews will be somewhere around his peak season. If Dobbins remains healthy, he'll have 1500+combined yards and 8-10TDs. But I'm not putting any numbers on each WR's stats. I really have no idea if this offense is going to have one or two leaders of the statistical pack, or be more like KC last year where every WR eats but no one feasts.

EDIT: Mild and I simul-posted. Any similarities are completely organic.

[Anteaters]

but I still think the only locks for fantasy are Andrews and Lamar, with all 3 WR's healthy.

My thoughts too.

It's too late to get Lamar in dynasty I fear, but I'm targeting him everywhere in redraft. Andrews is also too expensive for dynasty, but I have him on one team and I'm looking forward to a T3TE season - feel it's almost a lock really.

[trc]

I agree 2 Ravens WRs will be fantasy relevant. I think the big problem for shareholders of Ravens WRs is guessing the correct two. Bateman? OBJ? Flowers? Not all three will have fantasy useful stats. Who's going to be the odd man out?

I recall both you and Mild are high on BAL this season.
What kind of stat lines do you expect for them (Lamar, Bateman & Flowers)? I think Andrews is a lock to get fed.

There are a LOT of mouths to feed in this offense. I'm definitely higher on Baltimore as a passing offense in 2023 holistically - but I still think the only locks for fantasy are Andrews and Lamar, with all 3 WR's healthy.

Thx for the solid reply, makes a lot of sense.

EDIT also goes out to Anteaters