Championship Game Bad Beat Question

[Water Buffalo]

I was up 6.5 going into the night with Tee Higgins and him having Allen

Up 5.5 when the game was shut down and projected to lose by 3/at about 45% to win

I offered him split pot and co champs for the record books (flip a coin for draft order he doesn’t have his picks anyways)

He refused

He said he wants to use projections or average points scored or play week 18 with just Allen and Higgins.

I refused. I said I was being generous offering co champs and that I have a better case for winning than he does considering I was actually up.

He’s saying he will leave the league. Offered that I win the title but we still split the pot. He refused even more angrily.

I re offered co champs

He left the chat.

Thoughts? Anyone? In fairness to him he has no first till 2025 and has been going all in for years now and coming up short

I have a young team with tons of draft picks

But I still put up more points

Honestly, without being privy to the actual actions of the other person and only their decisions, I don't blame him. Allen is averaging almost 26ppg in 4 point TD leagues. Obviously more in 6 point passing TD leagues. He's the 2nd highest scoring player in all of fantasy football this year and could have been THE highest (surpassing Mahomes) with a good showing Monday night. Higgins is averaging 14.6, and that's full ppr. He did have a couple 0's from being injured or underperforming this year, but even if you remove those he's at 16.9.

Point being, even with a 5.5 or 6.5 point lead, he was easily favored to win. He was a 70/30 favorite or better. Why should he agree to simply split the pot with you when he was more likely to win than not? His offer of keeping everything as it is and using week 18 points from only Allen and Higgins is easily the most fair solution, but you refused it because "you were actually up"? Huh? To me it sounds like you're the one being unreasonable and looking for a way to nudge the 70/30 odds from his favor to 50/50. You're not being generous at all.

[StripesOfKC]

I was up 6.5 going into the night with Tee Higgins and him having Allen

Up 5.5 when the game was shut down and projected to lose by 3/at about 45% to win

I offered him split pot and co champs for the record books (flip a coin for draft order he doesn’t have his picks anyways)

He refused

He said he wants to use projections or average points scored or play week 18 with just Allen and Higgins.

I refused. I said I was being generous offering co champs and that I have a better case for winning than he does considering I was actually up.

He’s saying he will leave the league. Offered that I win the title but we still split the pot. He refused even more angrily.

I re offered co champs

He left the chat.

Thoughts? Anyone? In fairness to him he has no first till 2025 and has been going all in for years now and coming up short

I have a young team with tons of draft picks

But I still put up more points

Honestly, without being privy to the actual actions of the other person and only their decisions, I don't blame him. Allen is averaging almost 26ppg in 4 point TD leagues. Obviously more in 6 point passing TD leagues. He's the 2nd highest scoring player in all of fantasy football this year and could have been THE highest (surpassing Mahomes) with a good showing Monday night. Higgins is averaging 14.6, and that's full ppr. He did have a couple 0's from being injured or underperforming this year, but even if you remove those he's at 16.9.

Point being, even with a 5.5 or 6.5 point lead, he was easily favored to win. He was a 70/30 favorite or better. Why should he agree to simply split the pot with you when he was more likely to win than not? His offer of keeping everything as it is and using week 18 points from only Allen and Higgins is easily the most fair solution, but you refused it because "you were actually up"? Huh? To me it sounds like you're the one being unreasonable and looking for a way to nudge the 70/30 odds from his favor to 50/50. You're not being generous at all.

Well our platform had him as a 55-45 favorite and 3 points (like I said)

In our format he was averaging 23 ppg (still great and QB2). The Bengals defense has not allowed more than 20.3 points to a QB all season (and that was week 8) in our league. Mahomes scored 19.8 against them. Higgins is averaging 12.2 though up to 14.9 if you remove the injury 0s. Why would 15 from Higgins and 20 Allen be so unrealistic of an outcome (that's 3 points below Allen's average and right at Higgins' non injury average--Bengals are tougher than most on QBs and Bills are actually easier on WRs than most)? Literally last week they both scored 22

Even if they score their averages--14.9 and 23.2 that's a 1.8 point loss--hardly "70/30"

Since you can't get the facts of the situation right what further point is there even in discussing? And I'm being "generous" because our platform (like every platform) is going to leave the scores as is. I am under no obligation to do anything to change that.

In my redraft league where I lost in the semis the finalist (who is also in this league though eliminated) leads by 6 with the opponent having Dawson Knox left and is claiming a full title and pot and is reluctant to even settle for a split

[trc]

I am in 12 finals, 2 were determined before MNF, 2 hinged on MNF but the pots were chopped, and 8 hinged on MNF with no agreed to chops. I am the commish in 3 of the 8 remaining and while there is no doubt I would have won all three (barring crazy Brady-Evans games or injuries) but I offered the chop and co-champ solution to all of the leagues I commish and no one had an issue. Probably cost me straight up titles and the larger cut of the money but being commish as well in those 3 leagues I really don't have much of an option.

You could have declared youself inable to make a descision, because involved in the games, and put it up for vote in the league.
I honestly don't think a commish always should take the 'loss', just because of being the commish.

[trc]

I think MFL and other league management sites got it right. Game over.

In all my MFL leagues, the stats accumulated last night were cleared and all players got a zero.

I'd have preferred keeping the stats from that half quarter over deleting it all.

This happened in my league as well. I’m the commish and unsure here.

Two championship game teams(not me) were at 143 vs 135 going into the night. Team 143 had no one left to play. Team 135 had Diggs and James Cook. Team 135 I believe passed 143 during the game and had 145. But now MFL has wiped the scores.

I feel like the fairest thing to do is award 1st to the team who had 145 but I’m not positive. Any thoughts here?

The flip side is that the game doesn’t count. It’s not going down in the nfl books so no score actually ever counted.

You should involve the 2 owners separately, simply ask for their opinion.
If they don't suggest the same solution, you will have to make a descision.

There is a lot af suggestions here on how to solve it, my personal opinion is that the result on MFL is what counts. Also referering to what is done in big money leagues.

[henry1jg]

I am in 12 finals, 2 were determined before MNF, 2 hinged on MNF but the pots were chopped, and 8 hinged on MNF with no agreed to chops. I am the commish in 3 of the 8 remaining and while there is no doubt I would have won all three (barring crazy Brady-Evans games or injuries) but I offered the chop and co-champ solution to all of the leagues I commish and no one had an issue. Probably cost me straight up titles and the larger cut of the money but being commish as well in those 3 leagues I really don't have much of an option.

In the other 5 leagues my friend is the commish and took the idea I used for my leagues and carried it over to his. There was a good chance I would have gone 3-2 or 4-1 in those leagues but I was fine with chopping and co-champs (or whatever we wanted to call it). The owner in the one league was in a mood from the jump becase the commish didn't ask us our opinions and said "a decision should have been unanimous between us" (or something to that affect). I told him I would be fine coming up with some sort of fair split (maybe something like 60-40 since he was the favorite going into the night)...he suggested we split the pot in half minus like 100 bucks and we play for that and the outright title of champ in week 18. Now while I would just prefer to end this fantasy season considering what happened, I agreed. He then comes back and says "unless they play the Bills Bengals game later" to which I said I would prefer the way we just agreed to and be done with it. I find it funny he wants a unanimous decision as long as I agree to it lol. I'm just gonna concede so we can end this season...I'm burnt out. Sorry for the rant.

This resonates greatly with me, I just wanted this season to be over, I'm very burnt out as well.

I've got a tough one in my league. Neither owner agrees on what should be done, one is very angry, which means I'm going to have to make the final determination. Yay. Good luck to commissioners out there.

[Cameron Giles]

All of the hosting sites are right to rule the scores final and essentially leave it up to the leagues themselves.

After that, there doesn't seem to be a wrong answer. Everyone knows this is an unprecedented situation. I think as long as the people involved in the final have been able to discuss it amongst themselves or with the commissioner, then everything is good.

[dustyroads]

I was up 6.5 going into the night with Tee Higgins and him having Allen

Up 5.5 when the game was shut down and projected to lose by 3/at about 45% to win

I offered him split pot and co champs for the record books (flip a coin for draft order he doesn’t have his picks anyways)

He refused

He said he wants to use projections or average points scored or play week 18 with just Allen and Higgins.

I refused. I said I was being generous offering co champs and that I have a better case for winning than he does considering I was actually up.

He’s saying he will leave the league. Offered that I win the title but we still split the pot. He refused even more angrily.

I re offered co champs

He left the chat.

Thoughts? Anyone? In fairness to him he has no first till 2025 and has been going all in for years now and coming up short

I have a young team with tons of draft picks

But I still put up more points

Honestly, without being privy to the actual actions of the other person and only their decisions, I don't blame him. Allen is averaging almost 26ppg in 4 point TD leagues. Obviously more in 6 point passing TD leagues. He's the 2nd highest scoring player in all of fantasy football this year and could have been THE highest (surpassing Mahomes) with a good showing Monday night. Higgins is averaging 14.6, and that's full ppr. He did have a couple 0's from being injured or underperforming this year, but even if you remove those he's at 16.9.

Point being, even with a 5.5 or 6.5 point lead, he was easily favored to win. He was a 70/30 favorite or better. Why should he agree to simply split the pot with you when he was more likely to win than not? His offer of keeping everything as it is and using week 18 points from only Allen and Higgins is easily the most fair solution, but you refused it because "you were actually up"? Huh? To me it sounds like you're the one being unreasonable and looking for a way to nudge the 70/30 odds from his favor to 50/50. You're not being generous at all.

Well our platform had him as a 55-45 favorite and 3 points (like I said)

In our format he was averaging 23 ppg (still great and QB2). The Bengals defense has not allowed more than 20.3 points to a QB all season (and that was week 8) in our league. Mahomes scored 19.8 against them. Higgins is averaging 12.2 though up to 14.9 if you remove the injury 0s. Why would 15 from Higgins and 20 Allen be so unrealistic of an outcome (that's 3 points below Allen's average and right at Higgins' non injury average--Bengals are tougher than most on QBs and Bills are actually easier on WRs than most)? Literally last week they both scored 22

Even if they score their averages--14.9 and 23.2 that's a 1.8 point loss--hardly "70/30"

Since you can't get the facts of the situation right what further point is there even in discussing? And I'm being "generous" because our platform (like every platform) is going to leave the scores as is. I am under no obligation to do anything to change that.

In my redraft league where I lost in the semis the finalist (who is also in this league though eliminated) leads by 6 with the opponent having Dawson Knox left and is claiming a full title and pot and is reluctant to even settle for a split

Agreed with Water Buffalo's take from the jump, and then your snarky defensive reply made it even more so.

IMO, your league mate gave three alternative ways to decide the game (projections/avg points/week 18 scores). You gave one, split the pot; and IMO made it an offensive "gesture" by presenting it as a fair solution using middle ground fallacy. And put me in the crowd that thinks just ending the season and not counting the game is a bad way to determine the final result. Furthermore, anyone using "well that's what FPC does" to defend that solution is terrible logic and actually exactly the definition of the logical fallacy of "appealing to authority". It's not an argument for the actual case at all, it's a way to avoid discussing it by appealing to authority. Host sites have tons of default rules and settings we constantly change, and it feels like these boards and most serious fantasy players tend to like host sites the most when they allow us to configure leagues the way we want, not confining us to their default settings/rules. Otherwise, we'd still be using rolling waiver systems and playing team defenses every week. It's fine if consensus decides to do things that way, but I think it's completely reasonable for others to question it as a legitimate solution, and wish to desire exploring other solutions; especially when projected results were not going to be even close (i.e. down by 10 but having Allen and Chase left to play).

I don't really care what you decide to do, but don't post on msg boards seeking feedback if all you want is feedback that supports you/your stance. It's obnoxious. Just my take.

Edit: one more note, take everything else out of the picture completely, I wouldn't want to play in a league run by someone who says things like this either
"And I'm being "generous" because our platform (like every platform) is going to leave the scores as is. I am under no obligation to do anything to change that."
Bad commish red flags waiving there.

[YouMightDieTryin]

ESPN is extending the matchup. They're the only one I'm hearing that hasn't just called the week.

[jomaed]

ESPN is extending the matchup. They're the only one I'm hearing that hasn't just called the week.

Extending it how? Waiting to see if the game is played?

[YouMightDieTryin]

ESPN is extending the matchup. They're the only one I'm hearing that hasn't just called the week.

Extending it how? Waiting to see if the game is played?

"The Bengals vs Bills game on Monday, January 2nd has been postponed by the NFL. The current matchup period will be extended. We will provide more information as it becomes available." - The banner at the top of my ESPN page.

I think it's just a bridge to say they're extending the week to see if the game is played, but I could be wrong.

[remedy29]

I think MFL and other league management sites got it right. Game over.

In all my MFL leagues, the stats accumulated last night were cleared and all players got a zero.

I'd have preferred keeping the stats from that half quarter over deleting it all.

This happened in my league as well. I’m the commish and unsure here.

Two championship game teams(not me) were at 143 vs 135 going into the night. Team 143 had no one left to play. Team 135 had Diggs and James Cook. Team 135 I believe passed 143 during the game and had 145. But now MFL has wiped the scores.

I feel like the fairest thing to do is award 1st to the team who had 145 but I’m not positive. Any thoughts here?

The flip side is that the game doesn’t count. It’s not going down in the nfl books so no score actually ever counted.

I do not think you should arbitrary award the points for the Bills/Cincy game. The Live Scoring points are never final. You need to wait for the final scoring provided by the NFL. Typically this is completed by Thursday, perhaps that should be extended during this unique circumstance. If the NFL concludes the stats are not official, then I do not see how you can award stats from an incomplete game and declare a winner.

In general, I think the first step every league should be doing is wait for the NFL to make a decision on the Bills/Cincy game. All we know is that it was postponed. It has not been canceled yet. I am of the opinion if that game gets played, then those stats should count. If the game does not get played, then I am not sure of the best solution, seems like it will be a league by league decision.

FYI, I am in 2 championship games. In one, I am a big underdog but still have players but also going against Josh Allen. In another, I am also going against Josh Allen with a 20 pt lead and Gabe Davis. The second one is a near 50/50.

[StripesOfKC]

Honestly, without being privy to the actual actions of the other person and only their decisions, I don't blame him. Allen is averaging almost 26ppg in 4 point TD leagues. Obviously more in 6 point passing TD leagues. He's the 2nd highest scoring player in all of fantasy football this year and could have been THE highest (surpassing Mahomes) with a good showing Monday night. Higgins is averaging 14.6, and that's full ppr. He did have a couple 0's from being injured or underperforming this year, but even if you remove those he's at 16.9.

Point being, even with a 5.5 or 6.5 point lead, he was easily favored to win. He was a 70/30 favorite or better. Why should he agree to simply split the pot with you when he was more likely to win than not? His offer of keeping everything as it is and using week 18 points from only Allen and Higgins is easily the most fair solution, but you refused it because "you were actually up"? Huh? To me it sounds like you're the one being unreasonable and looking for a way to nudge the 70/30 odds from his favor to 50/50. You're not being generous at all.

Well our platform had him as a 55-45 favorite and 3 points (like I said)

In our format he was averaging 23 ppg (still great and QB2). The Bengals defense has not allowed more than 20.3 points to a QB all season (and that was week 8) in our league. Mahomes scored 19.8 against them. Higgins is averaging 12.2 though up to 14.9 if you remove the injury 0s. Why would 15 from Higgins and 20 Allen be so unrealistic of an outcome (that's 3 points below Allen's average and right at Higgins' non injury average--Bengals are tougher than most on QBs and Bills are actually easier on WRs than most)? Literally last week they both scored 22

Even if they score their averages--14.9 and 23.2 that's a 1.8 point loss--hardly "70/30"

Since you can't get the facts of the situation right what further point is there even in discussing? And I'm being "generous" because our platform (like every platform) is going to leave the scores as is. I am under no obligation to do anything to change that.

In my redraft league where I lost in the semis the finalist (who is also in this league though eliminated) leads by 6 with the opponent having Dawson Knox left and is claiming a full title and pot and is reluctant to even settle for a split

Agreed with Water Buffalo's take from the jump, and then your snarky defensive reply made it even more so.

IMO, your league mate gave three alternative ways to decide the game (projections/avg points/week 18 scores). You gave one, split the pot; and IMO made it an offensive "gesture" by presenting it as a fair solution using middle ground fallacy. And put me in the crowd that thinks just ending the season and not counting the game is a bad way to determine the final result. Furthermore, anyone using "well that's what FPC does" to defend that solution is terrible logic and actually exactly the definition of the logical fallacy of "appealing to authority". It's not an argument for the actual case at all, it's a way to avoid discussing it by appealing to authority. Host sites have tons of default rules and settings we constantly change, and it feels like these boards and most serious fantasy players tend to like host sites the most when they allow us to configure leagues the way we want, not confining us to their default settings/rules. Otherwise, we'd still be using rolling waiver systems and playing team defenses every week. It's fine if consensus decides to do things that way, but I think it's completely reasonable for others to question it as a legitimate solution, and wish to desire exploring other solutions; especially when projected results were not going to be even close (i.e. down by 10 but having Allen and Chase left to play).

I don't really care what you decide to do, but don't post on msg boards seeking feedback if all you want is feedback that supports you/your stance. It's obnoxious. Just my take.

Edit: one more note, take everything else out of the picture completely, I wouldn't want to play in a league run by someone who says things like this either
"And I'm being "generous" because our platform (like every platform) is going to leave the scores as is. I am under no obligation to do anything to change that."
Bad commish red flags waiving there.

I'm absolutely open to criticism but when you get the facts of the situation wrong in the first place (like Allen at 26 PPG or "70-30 chance") what's even the point?

And he gave three ways that favor him. He rejected using a bench player to freely substitute in (because I would win). He rejected making it 2 week aggregate because Allen didn't play and CMC might not play next week

And I cited the platforms because he was so confident early yesterday that they'd support him and rule on "projections" and said to wait for what they say. Only when MFL came out with what they would go with did he start to change his mind seeing the writing on the wall

[moishetreats]

FWIW, here is what I just sent out to the leagues that I commish:

Good morning, Folks,

Simply put: our GMFFL fantasy season is over. There is no other scenario that is clean. Every single option is simply messy with a lot of what-ifs and would-haves. Fantasy football is undeniably a game of skill and is also one full of incessant randomness. The fantasy implications suck. No doubt about it. And there is no clean alternative.

So our fantasy season is over, and XXX is our champion. I offer sincere congratulations here, and I confess that they are muted. I will make sure to return to all of you in the next few days with a more celebratory and formal end-of-the-year wrap-up. In the meantime, as our fantasy season is done, we continue to hope and send well-wishes to Damar.

Thank you all for another wonderful fantasy football season. We'll wrap up later.

Gratefully,
Moishe

[drobes]

ESPN is extending the matchup. They're the only one I'm hearing that hasn't just called the week.

Extending it how? Waiting to see if the game is played?

"The Bengals vs Bills game on Monday, January 2nd has been postponed by the NFL. The current matchup period will be extended. We will provide more information as it becomes available." - The banner at the top of my ESPN page.

I think it's just a bridge to say they're extending the week to see if the game is played, but I could be wrong.

They updated it this morning to read:
"Due to the circumstances of Monday's Bills vs Bengals game, ESPN Fantasy Football will officially score fantasy matchups for week 17 and week 18 (if applicable) only after the Bills vs Bengals game is ruled final (either after being played or cancelled). For scoring we will use the official NFL player statistics for the game. Points for Bills and Bengals players will remain as they appear until the game is played or cancelled and will be updated following that time. This may impact matchup results, league champions and final standings for your league. The current matchup period will be extended until Thursday to support this approach. Our thoughts continue to be with Damar Hamlin and his family."

[BlackOmega]

Extending it how? Waiting to see if the game is played?

"The Bengals vs Bills game on Monday, January 2nd has been postponed by the NFL. The current matchup period will be extended. We will provide more information as it becomes available." - The banner at the top of my ESPN page.

I think it's just a bridge to say they're extending the week to see if the game is played, but I could be wrong.

They updated it this morning to read:
"Due to the circumstances of Monday's Bills vs Bengals game, ESPN Fantasy Football will officially score fantasy matchups for week 17 and week 18 (if applicable) only after the Bills vs Bengals game is ruled final (either after being played or cancelled). For scoring we will use the official NFL player statistics for the game. Points for Bills and Bengals players will remain as they appear until the game is played or cancelled and will be updated following that time. This may impact matchup results, league champions and final standings for your league. The current matchup period will be extended until Thursday to support this approach. Our thoughts continue to be with Damar Hamlin and his family."

That's at least a bit better than the NFL's own fantasy website, they are still in a holding pattern - "Due to the tragic and unprecedented circumstances stemming from Monday night's Bengals vs. Bills game, we are working through the impact to fantasy scores and are awaiting further updates from the NFL on plans to resume or cancel the game. In the interim, scores will be held in place as of the moment the game was suspended. We will provide further updates as soon as possible and appreciate your patience." Which is fine and dandy except for the leagues who have their championship in week 18! {As our ancient keeper league does} We need them to close out week 17 so whomever we determine won in the semifinals can be matched up for the championship