Release the Guice! - The Derrius Guice Discussion Thread

[FantasyFreak]

so they arrested him without even interviewing him? i guess we'll have to wait until the court case to find out what really happened because the police sure didn't try to find out what actually happened.

Good to know you're on top of it. It's not like they conducted an investigation or anything....oh wait.

They don't need to interview the accused. When there is enough evidence, eye witnesses etc., they aren't required for an arrest. I'm assuming the accused would usually say something along the lines of "I didn't do nothing".

[FantasyFreak]

I hope people didn’t just drop him. Those who were advocating that from no facts are short sighted at best. Like I said, there is more to play out. It may not work out in his favor or maybe it will. Too early to tell there are always multiple sides to the story.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wtop.com/w ... lease/amp/

The parts about WFT aren’t surprising at all. It’s the worst run organization in pro sports.

This was kind of my initial point. It's very unlikely he plays again, but Washington releasing him really doesn't mean anything in regard to his guilt. There's probably nothing on your waivers worth more than the hope that he's exonerated. Sometimes we're too reactionary to news dropping, and in this case there's probably zero reward for not waiting another month for more news.

He was "all in on Guice". The idea there are no facts isn't true. The fact is he was arrested, and there are 3 separate incidents reported with enough evidence after an investigation to charge him. Those are facts As I said, I'm for due process, but the idea a lawyer is making a statement in defence of his client should not be surprising.

[Bronco Billy]

so they arrested him without even interviewing him? i guess we'll have to wait until the court case to find out what really happened because the police sure didn't try to find out what actually happened.

How did you manage to come to that conclusion?

[FantasyFreak]

Agree and disagree. He hasn't played much, but when be has, he's had good games. In his brief action last season, he recorded a 76.0 PFF grade (18th among RBs with 40-plus snaps) while racking up 5.1 yards after contact per attempt (first, with a small sample size caveat). He's not walking into a guaranteed role if he ends up in an NFL roster, so I'm roughly putting him around Josh Kelley's value.

He's at flier level for me, both NFL and fantasy. I could see teams with long term RB questions taking a flier, like Seattle, the Jets and Atlanta. Since he was cut Friday, I'm guessing we'll know if anyone claims him by tomorrow pm.

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-footba ... al-in-2020
https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-footba ... rrius-guic (paywall)

Agree there's no point in outright dropping him yet unless you need the space.

With him clearing waivers, I'd have him well below the Joshua Kelley value tier.

The only similarly to Hunt's situation is the offense they committed. Hunt showcased his ceiling, so the risk vs reward upside was easier to conceptualize. With Guice it's all theoretical.

If Guice ends up playing again (pretty likely, imo) I hope more people share this hesitancy on Guice’s talent.

I don't think he's putting him in Kelley's tier because of "talent". It's due to the fact he just hurt his knee for the 4th time as a pro, and is facing felony charges, and 5 charges in total. I don't think it's likely he plays again, not unless he's exonerated of all charges, and I assume the poster agrees. Kelley has more chance of gaining value in the next year to year and a half than Guice does. There is almost no chance Guice plays this season (we also don't know the extent of his latest knee injury) and he would be facing an investigation/suspension if he was picked up again next year, so having him in the Kelley range would be factoring all that in.

[Sriracha]

Agree there's no point in outright dropping him yet unless you need the space.

With him clearing waivers, I'd have him well below the Joshua Kelley value tier.

The only similarly to Hunt's situation is the offense they committed. Hunt showcased his ceiling, so the risk vs reward upside was easier to conceptualize. With Guice it's all theoretical.

If Guice ends up playing again (pretty likely, imo) I hope more people share this hesitancy on Guice’s talent.

I don't think he's putting him in Kelley's tier because of "talent". It's due to the fact he just hurt his knee for the 4th time as a pro, and is facing felony charges, and 5 charges in total. I don't think it's likely he plays again, not unless he's exonerated of all charges, and I assume the poster agrees. Kelley has more chance of gaining value in the next year to year and a half than Guice does. There is almost no chance Guice plays this season (we also don't know the extent of his latest knee injury) and he would be facing an investigation/suspension if he was picked up again next year, so having him in the Kelley range would be factoring all that in.

The NFL has shown time and time again that they will not bar a talented player so long as they can conceivably roster him. If you disagree that Guice is talented, that's your opinion and it’s well within your rights to hold it. But I very strongly disagree that his ability to play RB is, in anyway, doubted.

Injuries are a concern, but I havent found much of any news about this purported knee injury or the severity of it.. so using it to further his injury narrative seems suspiciously negative, imo.

The Joshua Kelly comparison did not factor into this, at all

[FantasyFreak]

If Guice ends up playing again (pretty likely, imo) I hope more people share this hesitancy on Guice’s talent.

I don't think he's putting him in Kelley's tier because of "talent". It's due to the fact he just hurt his knee for the 4th time as a pro, and is facing felony charges, and 5 charges in total. I don't think it's likely he plays again, not unless he's exonerated of all charges, and I assume the poster agrees. Kelley has more chance of gaining value in the next year to year and a half than Guice does. There is almost no chance Guice plays this season (we also don't know the extent of his latest knee injury) and he would be facing an investigation/suspension if he was picked up again next year, so having him in the Kelley range would be factoring all that in.

The NFL has shown time and time again that they will not bar a talented player so long as they conceivably roster him. If you disagree that Guice is talented, thats your opinion and it’s well within your rights to hold it. But I very strongly disagree that his ability to play RB is in anyway doubted. Injuries are a concern, but I havent found much of any news about this purported knee injury or the severity of it.. so using it to further his injury narrative seems suspiciously negative, imo.

The Joshua Kelly comparison did not factor into this at all.

Ian Rappaport is a credible enough source for me. I'm sure there would have been more news on it had he not been released for DV. Not sure why using it to further his injury narrative would be disingenuous at all. I am not sure there was anything in the post you were quoting beyond him having Guice in Kelley's tier to suggest Guice wasn't talented. Unless you feel him saying it's not comparable to Hunt was a slight against Guice's talent?

[Sriracha]

Ian Rappaport is a credible enough source for me. I'm sure there would have been more news on it had he not been released for DV. Not sure why using it to further his injury narrative would be disingenuous at all. I am not sure there was anything in the post you were quoting beyond him having Guice in Kelley's tier to suggest Guice wasn't talented. Unless you feel him saying it's not comparable to Hunt was a slight against Guice's talent?

"Hunt showcased his ceiling, so the risk vs reward upside was easier to conceptualize. With Guice it's all theoretical."

I disagree that Guice's upside is all theoretical. Less proven? Definitely but there were more than a few skeptics who thought Hunt's production was more the result of his situation than his talent (a criticism that he has more than answered the Bell on, in his time with CLE) Guice has not been thrown into a good situation to start his career and whenever he's played he's crushed it.

[FantasyFreak]

Ian Rappaport is a credible enough source for me. I'm sure there would have been more news on it had he not been released for DV. Not sure why using it to further his injury narrative would be disingenuous at all. I am not sure there was anything in the post you were quoting beyond him having Guice in Kelley's tier to suggest Guice wasn't talented. Unless you feel him saying it's not comparable to Hunt was a slight against Guice's talent?

"Hunt showcased his ceiling, so the risk vs reward upside was easier to conceptualize. With Guice it's all theoretical."

I disagree that Guice's upside is all theoretical. Less proven? Definitely but there were more than a few skeptics who thought Hunt's production was more the result of his situation than his talent (a criticism that he has more than answered the Bell on, in his time with CLE) Guice has not been thrown into a good situation to start his career and whenever he's played he's crushed it.

10 for 18
7 for 24
10 for 32

Those were the lines on 3 of his 5 games. He did have 1 TD catch in the 7 for 24 game, but he definitely did not "crush it" in all of his games. He's had 1 really good game out of 5. I guess some people just disagree to the level of talent he has. I think Guice is talented, but with the amount of injuries and a complete lack of ability to show he can stay on the field, I think that is a huge negative for him getting another shot, because it just lessens the interest a team would have in picking him up, when they weigh the pros vs cons, as it is another con. I suppose there is a joke there, too.

[Sriracha]

Ian Rappaport is a credible enough source for me. I'm sure there would have been more news on it had he not been released for DV. Not sure why using it to further his injury narrative would be disingenuous at all. I am not sure there was anything in the post you were quoting beyond him having Guice in Kelley's tier to suggest Guice wasn't talented. Unless you feel him saying it's not comparable to Hunt was a slight against Guice's talent?

"Hunt showcased his ceiling, so the risk vs reward upside was easier to conceptualize. With Guice it's all theoretical."

I disagree that Guice's upside is all theoretical. Less proven? Definitely but there were more than a few skeptics who thought Hunt's production was more the result of his situation than his talent (a criticism that he has more than answered the Bell on, in his time with CLE) Guice has not been thrown into a good situation to start his career and whenever he's played he's crushed it.

10 for 18
7 for 24
10 for 32

Those were the lines on 3 of his 5 games. He did have 1 TD catch in the 7 for 24 game, but he definitely did not "crush it" in all of his games. He's had 1 really good game out of 5. I guess some people just disagree to the level of talent he has. I think Guice is talented, but with the amount of injuries and a complete lack of ability to show he can stay on the field, I think that is a huge negative for him getting another shot, because it just lessens the interest a team would have in picking him up, when they weigh the pros vs cons, as it is another con. I suppose there is a joke there, too.

In terms of what he was expected to get, and what he got he crushed it. #2 in the NFL in yards created per touch, and averaged an absurd 12 yards per carry vs stacked fronts in limited action. I agree that health is still a concern, but I don't expect a team to be too concerned about his health issues if they're able to sign him to a team friendly deal.

[Mephistopheles]

Whomever wrote the title to this thread in 2018 is hereby banned from all sports prediction contests.

[FantasyFreak]

"Hunt showcased his ceiling, so the risk vs reward upside was easier to conceptualize. With Guice it's all theoretical."

I disagree that Guice's upside is all theoretical. Less proven? Definitely but there were more than a few skeptics who thought Hunt's production was more the result of his situation than his talent (a criticism that he has more than answered the Bell on, in his time with CLE) Guice has not been thrown into a good situation to start his career and whenever he's played he's crushed it.

10 for 18
7 for 24
10 for 32

Those were the lines on 3 of his 5 games. He did have 1 TD catch in the 7 for 24 game, but he definitely did not "crush it" in all of his games. He's had 1 really good game out of 5. I guess some people just disagree to the level of talent he has. I think Guice is talented, but with the amount of injuries and a complete lack of ability to show he can stay on the field, I think that is a huge negative for him getting another shot, because it just lessens the interest a team would have in picking him up, when they weigh the pros vs cons, as it is another con. I suppose there is a joke there, too.

In terms of what he was expected to get, and what he got he crushed it. #2 in the NFL in yards created per touch, and averaged an absurd 12 yards per carry vs stacked fronts in limited action. I agree that health is still a concern, but I don't expect a team to be too concerned about his health issues if they're able to sign him to a team friendly deal.

Yeah, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It's such a replaceable position, I just don't think it's likely. In that very limited action, I doubt teams are looking at those types of statistics or care about them. I think the lack of availability he's shown will definitely work against him. By the time he's even eligible to play it will most likely be a year and a half out at best IMO, and by that time, he'll be an afterthought. I very much doubt a team picks him up, unless charges are dropped. Any deal he'd sign would obviously be team friendly, he would have zero leverage. Depending on how the felony charge goes, he could do time.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

so they arrested him without even interviewing him? i guess we'll have to wait until the court case to find out what really happened because the police sure didn't try to find out what actually happened.

Good to know you're on top of it. It's not like they conducted an investigation or anything....oh wait.

They don't need to interview the accused. When there is enough evidence, eye witnesses etc., they aren't required for an arrest. I'm assuming the accused would usually say something along the lines of "I didn't do nothing".

how do you know they interviewed anybody else?

we won't know anything until the court case.

[FantasyFreak]

Loser.

This is also my analysis.

X3. I'll let others continue to squabble over whether or not he'll ever be worth a 3rd round rookie pick again. I'm done talking about this piece of turd for now.

[bobandrews]

I've had enough with him. I'm all for rehab and 2nd chances but I'm not gonna hang around and see where this goes. I'll drop him when we cut rosters down. Heck, makes my choices easier.

Having said that I'm disappointed but I won't second-guess myself on this one. He was the right pick for me at the time. Just had no luck. That's how it goes. I have plenty of other moves to lament.

[Orenthal Shames]

Agree there's no point in outright dropping him yet unless you need the space.

With him clearing waivers, I'd have him well below the Joshua Kelley value tier.

The only similarly to Hunt's situation is the offense they committed. Hunt showcased his ceiling, so the risk vs reward upside was easier to conceptualize. With Guice it's all theoretical.

If Guice ends up playing again (pretty likely, imo) I hope more people share this hesitancy on Guice’s talent.

I don't think he's putting him in Kelley's tier because of "talent". It's due to the fact he just hurt his knee for the 4th time as a pro, and is facing felony charges, and 5 charges in total. I don't think it's likely he plays again, not unless he's exonerated of all charges, and I assume the poster agrees. Kelley has more chance of gaining value in the next year to year and a half than Guice does. There is almost no chance Guice plays this season (we also don't know the extent of his latest knee injury) and he would be facing an investigation/suspension if he was picked up again next year, so having him in the Kelley range would be factoring all that in.

. Couldn't have crafted a better response.

I have Joshua Kelley pegged for 150+ carries this season. I can't say the same for Guice.

If the word theoretical was the big hang up, swap it for unproven and oft-injured.