Empty trade offers

[sloth8u]

Send and receive these.... Try to respond with what id need to move my guy/s when i get them.

I think most who send them do so in place of emailing the owner to ask whom may be available. I truly dont think they have a problem making the 1st offer, but dont see the point in making blind offers all day. If its known if a player is available, direction of team, who other owner is interested in, etc.... Its a lot easier to put together an offer that may interest them.

[lawilt]

I don't mind it with people I've done lots of deals with in the past when we're trying to establish our player values. But if an owner repeatedly does it without ever actually making an offer then I just don't respond.

[ebsteelers]

its fine for me as long as there is dialogue involved.

[maxhyde]

As long as I have been playing I have always seen these types of exploratory "offers".
People value guys differently so I get it. I reply and see where things go...usually by sending an offer to move one or more of them

[Papa Stephano]

He told you who he liked, why are you afraid to tell him who you like?
Most owners are very polarized on players. I'm willing to make the first offer but it's good to know which of my players they have zero interest in and which they would pay market rates for. This is why ESPN trade block >>> MFL trade block

This. I have no problem responding with, "So, the guys I like on your team are X, Y, and Z and I'm always open to receiving picks as a part of a deal. Since you reached out I'll let you make the first offer."

I love trading and have no problem if I have to guide the other owner to a deal that makes my team better.

This ^^^^

Beautiful, totally a passive aggressive move to turn the tables back around. And get to be polite while doing so

Well, I'm that guy. I like to say who I'm interested in and offer them to take a look at my roster and let me know if there's something that interests them. I like to see what they come back with, I want them to make the first offer. I also like to start dialogue and get an adiea where they're going with their team. Building? Making a run? etc.

[Mephistopheles]

This year I’m seeing a new trend of where I’m getting trade offers with a couple of my players listed with nothing from the other team with a message “I’m interested in these guys what are you looking for”. Not sure what the community thinks but I view these as an abuse of the trade system. I’m all for discussing a trade via league chat or trade bait but I view this as just another way for a team not to have to play their cards first. If you want these players from my team put down what you are going to give up. Am I just being a bitter old dynasty player?

I've always hated this. When somebody sends these I ignore it.
Send a damn legit strong offer or don't bother. Show me what you're going to do in the trade for me.
I evaluate the first offer as to how credible the trade partner is and whether I want to go forward. These empty offers have zero credibility.

[themburns]

In part, dynasty is a war of information. This blank trade offer is a tactic that teams use mostly to keep prices down on assets they are looking to buy. The first offer sets the market, and is the "high point". The problem is, dynasty is less of a "rational marketplace" and much more of a swap meet/bazaar. If anyone tries to price check my players, I act as though I'm irrationally exuberant about them, since most dynasty players are that way. I used this tactic last off-season to turn I. Crowell into the 1.2+. And to further my position, if asked about other NFL players/fantasy teams in such dialogue, I'm honest between 80-90% of the time. I want them to trust me, even if they definitely shouldn't.

And, to that same end, sending out those blank offers gives away information in hopes of reciprocation. It's a tactic that might work well on undervalued post hype assets though.

[steelman]

This is anything but abuse. Lazy perhaps. Scared to make the first offer perhaps. Abuse, far from it.

[DLF3000]

Everyone's trade style is different. You WILL absolutely hate some players' trade styles, no question.

Too aggressive, too conservative, too flaky, too unresponsive, too lazy... and on and on.

Bottom line, willing trade partners get deals done. If you're not willing for whatever reason - style or substance - they don't get done. Communicate, meet them half way... or don't.

It's all in how you prefer to handle initiating or responding to initial "offers" - legit or otherwise. There is no universally right or best approach.

You could be the ideal communicator and/or trade partner... but it won't matter if the other person is an absolute turd on those levels.

[trc]

I really don't get the lazy part from everyone responding.

Just send an empty trade offer back, showing which player you find interesting.

If I want to send a solid offer to someone, I would rather know which of my players have interest for that potential trade-partner, instead of spending time guessing.

[Mephistopheles]

I really don't get the lazy part from everyone responding.

Just send an empty trade offer back, showing which player you find interesting.

If I want to send a solid offer to someone, I would rather know which of my players have interest for that potential trade-partner, instead of spending time guessing.

Sending an empty trade offer tells me nothing I don't already know. I have the commodity/player that he wants, but he hasn't shown me what's in it for me to give it up. He hasn't even interested me, let alone gotten me invested in helping him toward his objective (getting my player on his team). He hasn't even tried to distinguish himself from all the other options that I have to either trade or hang on to the player.

For example, if someone sends me an empty trade offer with me giving Gurley (as an example), I already know he is interested in trading for Gurley. So is the whole rest of the league. So what distinguishes that someone from everyone else in the league, or even from the viable alternative of keeping Gurley on my team? What he's offering to give me in return is the ONLY way to distinguish himself, and he hasn't even done that. That's why I always say, make a strong offer, distinguish yourself.

Comes down to the basic definition of a transaction. He gets something, I get something else. If he can't show me my benefit from the exchange, there's no reason for me to consider it. Takes very little thought or effort to put an asset or two on his side, that's why it's lazy.

[nyterp]

I used to get annoyed and make them make the first offer, but now I just counter back with an offer I know is in my favor to "set the market high" as was mentioned earlier. Empty offers are a tactic. If you don't like them, tell the other owner they will need to make the first offer and eventually you should stop getting them.

[Krypto_King]

Sending an empty trade offer tells me nothing I don't already know. I have the commodity/player that he wants, but he hasn't shown me what's in it for me to give it up. He hasn't even interested me, let alone gotten me invested in helping him toward his objective (getting my player on his team). He hasn't even tried to distinguish himself from all the other options that I have to either trade or hang on to the player.

For example, if someone sends me an empty trade offer with me giving Gurley (as an example), I already know he is interested in trading for Gurley. So is the whole rest of the league. So what distinguishes that someone from everyone else in the league, or even from the viable alternative of keeping Gurley on my team? What he's offering to give me in return is the ONLY way to distinguish himself, and he hasn't even done that. That's why I always say, make a strong offer, distinguish yourself.

Comes down to the basic definition of a transaction. He gets something, I get something else. If he can't show me my benefit from the exchange, there's no reason for me to consider it. Takes very little thought or effort to put an asset or two on his side, that's why it's lazy.

yeah I just disagree with this. How could you know he wants your player until he sends you the offer? That would count as something you don't know. Also, just because a player is a stud doesn't mean every team in the league would pay fair price for them. I could have a team where I value depth over studs. I could have a team where Gurley isn't enough to make me a contender so why consolidate for a RB. I could have a team with 3 other great RBs and be needy elsewhere. And he is showing you something. He's showing you his roster, prodding you to take a deeper look. This is the scene where the drug dealer lines up all his merch on the table and asks what interests you. Rarely do I get counters to cold offers, starting a dialogue means I am very willing to negotiate. I think a blank offer is just one tactic for this.

This isn't the cold war, people. It's just a game. Leagues are much more enjoyable when people aren't trying to trick and deceive other strangers.

[Mephistopheles]

Sending an empty trade offer tells me nothing I don't already know. I have the commodity/player that he wants, but he hasn't shown me what's in it for me to give it up. He hasn't even interested me, let alone gotten me invested in helping him toward his objective (getting my player on his team). He hasn't even tried to distinguish himself from all the other options that I have to either trade or hang on to the player.

For example, if someone sends me an empty trade offer with me giving Gurley (as an example), I already know he is interested in trading for Gurley. So is the whole rest of the league. So what distinguishes that someone from everyone else in the league, or even from the viable alternative of keeping Gurley on my team? What he's offering to give me in return is the ONLY way to distinguish himself, and he hasn't even done that. That's why I always say, make a strong offer, distinguish yourself.

Comes down to the basic definition of a transaction. He gets something, I get something else. If he can't show me my benefit from the exchange, there's no reason for me to consider it. Takes very little thought or effort to put an asset or two on his side, that's why it's lazy.

yeah I just disagree with this. How could you know he wants your player until he sends you the offer? That would count as something you don't know. Also, just because a player is a stud doesn't mean every team in the league would pay fair price for them. I could have a team where I value depth over studs. I could have a team where Gurley isn't enough to make me a contender so why consolidate for a RB. I could have a team with 3 other great RBs and be needy elsewhere. And he is showing you something. He's showing you his roster, prodding you to take a deeper look. This is the scene where the drug dealer lines up all his merch on the table and asks what interests you. Rarely do I get counters to cold offers, starting a dialogue means I am very willing to negotiate. I think a blank offer is just one tactic for this.

This isn't the cold war, people. It's just a game. Leagues are much more enjoyable when people aren't trying to trick and deceive other strangers.

This is an interesting statement, because when I get these empty offers, this is exactly what I think of the offer.

Give you an example - and this was when I stopped responding to these. Last year, during the season, someone sent me an "empty offer" for Gurley. I responded that it would be very expensive as I was a contender, that Gurley was a potential league-winner, the fantasy MVP, and only 23 years old to boot, and it would take a lower RB1 plus a WR1 to get it done. His response was "put together something you have in mind". Offered him Gurley and Robby Anderson (throw-in) for Kamara and either Tyreek or Juju S-S. Got blasted for it, four emails about what a rip-off that is, what an asshole I was for offering it. Said from that day forth, never again.

My oldest league is in its 20th year this year, we've had 4-5 new owners over that time. One of the things every owner tells the new guys is "If you want to talk trade, send a strong offer", and they specifically discourage this empty offer practice. They all absolutely abhor it.

[cazzie33]

^^^^^ My sentiments & experience exactly

My analogy is you knock on my door to ask if I'd be interested in selling my house. You ask what I'd want for it. What do you think the response is going to be 99.9% of the time ?

You have no idea if I've been looking to dump the place or it's the home of my dreams but I'm supposed to tip my hand to give you an edge. You've tipped your hand so the only thing that makes sense is to ask for the moon. At the very least I'm asking 150% of what I'd actually think is market value.

So I end up being the outrageous one but you set me up to be the bad guy. I won't take the bait. Either come with an offer that's legit or don't expect anything less from us.

Flip it around, do you tip your hand if I ask you about acquiring your guy ? Highly doubt I get anything but a similar situation of higher asking price or you try to put the ball back in my court to throw out an offer.

Poor negotiations tactic in my opinion