Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

[Mjvb5]

Going to a team that can actually win and has some semblance of an actual football team will only help him.

You're basing this off of a team with Tyrod at QB...and now that QB room could be catastrophic.

The easiest conclusions to jump to are:

#1 - Coleman didn't show nearly enough for Cleveland to want to keep him. A plethora of injuries and bad plays like his easy drop to seal Cleveland's winless season probably made everyone sour on him...rightfully or not. 2 years removed from being a 1st round pick to being sold for peanuts.

#2 - Is Zay Jones done? Nothing overly positive has come out on the kid all of 2017 and now 2018.

#3 - Does Cleveland move Duke into the slot or do they go with Callaway or a Dez type signing?

#4 - Fantasy owners may be rejoicing but just because a team needs bodies to throw to, might not equate to fantasy relevance.

If Coleman is on waivers or can be had for a 4th+ rookie pick, maybe I'm adding him but you'd be prompt keeping expectations pretty low. Almost reminds me of the DGB situation.

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw this, a WR that we loved showed the "upside" at times but has major issues traded for pennies to an "improved" situation. Just reeked of DGB from two years back

EDIT NOTE: Not saying he's worthless just that I probably wouldnt pay a second rounder for him

[notweswelker]

He was basically drafted to be the top option in Cleveland and failed to capitalize on his opportunity. He wasn't "buried" in Cleveland...his lack of production forced the team to bury him.

Failed to capitalize on what exactly. A team that has gone 1-31 and whose best quarterback the last decade just threw four interceptions in the CFL. He also dealt with some unlucky injuries. Going to a team that can actually win and has some semblance of an actual football team will only help him. I could see him becoming a useful WR 2/3 if things break well in Buffalo.

He was outplayed by T. Pryor, a guy who wasn't even a WR in college and a guy who is not very good. So his injuries are unlucky? So they don't count? Part of my knock on him was his size and not being good enough in traffic against NFL corners. If he was so good at being a game-breaker with his ability, why didn't he ever make any game-breaking plays when he was healthy?

They are unlucky injuries because they were flukey. It's not a guy who has balky knees that will never go away.
If Deandre Hopkins(consensus dynasty top-3) can finish as the WR36 overall, with 151 targets in 2016, and you still can't understand that a WR cannot produce by himself, I think you need to re-evaluate your judgments. Yes Pryor had a good year, because he had a bleep ton of targets and Coleman got hurt. Coleman now goes to a better team and opportunity is clearly there for him.
I said:
*I could see him becoming a useful WR 2/3 if things break well in Buffalo.*
And I stand by that. Clearly he has disappointed so far, but part of evaluating players is evaluating their circumstances. Pretty obviously the circumstances surrounding Cleveland are quite literally the worst in the league since CC was drafted. Coleman is only 24 with a path to touches and a good pedigree. Is he suddenly going to become Odell Beckham? Nah.

[btv802]

Just some thoughts and observations in defense of Coleman because why not...

• Coleman has more career yards and TDs than Agholor did at this point in his career despite playing in 9 fewer games. Agholor was similarly made fun of and generally considered worthless last offseason.

• When healthy and playing with an actually competent QB like Josh McCown, Coleman's stats were respectable and comparable to Agholor's 2017 season with MVP level Wentz. When healthy and playing with RGIII/Kessler/Kizer they were...not so good.

[jeffster]

The answer to all defenses of Coleman is "sold for a 7th round draft pick while still on his rookie contract." And not even a 7th from the next draft!

Whatever we may think of the Browns franchise, they're still not bumbling around like the three stooges. I'm certain *at least one person* in the entire Browns office was like "Hey, before we trade our former 1st round draft pick for a 2020 7th, do you think we should see if we can get more from another team?" And *probably* another person considered whether they were better off keeping him themselves. Even then, I bet there was *more than one person* who realized that, even if it's a good move, selling for a 2020 7th looks bad, too. Just to keep the snark rolling, I bet *someone* realized that if they do this deal and Coleman blows up in Buffalo, they'll all get fired.

But that was still the deal.

The bad news is, he's a roster clogger. The good news is, he'll move from that to real NFL waivers soon, and then anyone still holding him can finally cut him.

[flyersfan1981]

Failed to capitalize on what exactly. A team that has gone 1-31 and whose best quarterback the last decade just threw four interceptions in the CFL. He also dealt with some unlucky injuries. Going to a team that can actually win and has some semblance of an actual football team will only help him. I could see him becoming a useful WR 2/3 if things break well in Buffalo.

He was outplayed by T. Pryor, a guy who wasn't even a WR in college and a guy who is not very good. So his injuries are unlucky? So they don't count? Part of my knock on him was his size and not being good enough in traffic against NFL corners. If he was so good at being a game-breaker with his ability, why didn't he ever make any game-breaking plays when he was healthy?

They are unlucky injuries because they were flukey. It's not a guy who has balky knees that will never go away.
If Deandre Hopkins(consensus dynasty top-3) can finish as the WR36 overall, with 151 targets in 2016, and you still can't understand that a WR cannot produce by himself, I think you need to re-evaluate your judgments. Yes Pryor had a good year, because he had a bleep ton of targets and Coleman got hurt. Coleman now goes to a better team and opportunity is clearly there for him.
I said:
*I could see him becoming a useful WR 2/3 if things break well in Buffalo.*
And I stand by that. Clearly he has disappointed so far, but part of evaluating players is evaluating their circumstances. Pretty obviously the circumstances surrounding Cleveland are quite literally the worst in the league since CC was drafted. Coleman is only 24 with a path to touches and a good pedigree. Is he suddenly going to become Odell Beckham? Nah.

Is this a joke? Hopkins has 1200+ yards in 2014 with Ryan Fitzpatrick, Keenum, and Mallet. He had 1500+ yards in 2015 with Brian Hoyer, TJ Yates, and Brandon Weeden. He proved that he was elite before he ever got good QB play, but he was also good enough to bail out poor QB play.

As for Pryor, yeah he got about double the targets being healthy, but he was still more productive even if you doubled Coleman's targets and his production. That's all I need to know.

And don't worry about how I evaluate players. Corey Coleman being a bust was seen by some of us long, long ago and if you don't believe me, I can easily prove it through past posts.

[Valhalla]

Just some thoughts and observations in defense of Coleman because why not...

• Coleman has more career yards and TDs than Agholor did at this point in his career despite playing in 9 fewer games. Agholor was similarly made fun of and generally considered worthless last offseason.

• When healthy and playing with an actually competent QB like Josh McCown, Coleman's stats were respectable and comparable to Agholor's 2017 season with MVP level Wentz. When healthy and playing with RGIII/Kessler/Kizer they were...not so good.

I was going to bring up this split as well.

Coleman isn't the body type to fight for inaccurate but still in the proximity type of passes. He needs some semblance of accuracy to be able to hit him on his route. He's not a bad football player. He actually burned and visibly frustrated Jalen Ramsey...if you watched, and that should at least be SOME level of testament to his potential. But...he had the wildly inaccurate Kizer targeting him, so it wasn't a stand-out game.

Coleman has been in Hue's doghouse. In Hue's judgment, Coleman is not a WR worth having. What does that mean to you? What SHOULD that mean to you?

Consider...this is a coach that everyone takes shots at now because of 1-31...but it's not just the record. Hue was adamantly insisting that he had his man in Cody Kessler, and anyone on the outside just had to trust his judgment because he knew better than you. He tried hard to get AJ McCarron on the squad as the future at QB for the Browns. The same QB that couldn't even create a sniff of a QB debate between him and the ever-made-fun-of Dalton. Actually, I think it may have been dispute over paying up to get McCarron in a trade that got Sashi Brown fired, as the Browns ownership was duped into siding with Hue Jackson. Anyways...if it wasn't going to be Kessler (the guaranteed future star), it was going to be RG3's turn. Oops. Oh well. It was time to guarantee his next great QB in Kizer with his somehow unflappable football intelligence. I could go on, but the QB stances and overall record illustrate the picture clearly enough. This guy CLEARLY is an NFL mind to be trusted...right?

So...why would you keep a CHEAP, HIGHLY ATHLETIC WR that has shown flashes when he has an actual QB throwing to him? Why worry about that CHEAP deep threat when you've got the dependability of Josh Gordon, the defense stretching impact of Jarvis Landry, and the clean off-field record of Callaway? It must be a concrete faith in Jeff Janis, because I have to pick something absurd to match up with the thinking here.

A 7th round pick?!?! He was just running with the 1s. I don't care if you think Coleman is behind even Janis on the depth chart. When you're relying on the character and clean habits of Josh Gordon and Antonio Callaway, surely a cheap (as compared to most field stretchers at his position), highly athletic field stretcher is worth more than a 7th rounder.

You can read that the 7th round pick means NO ONE in the NFL wanted this guy, which means something behind the scenes must be REALLY off with him. Or...you can read it as, the Browns selected the Bills as the destination they would send Coleman, and then pursued to get what they could from that decision on. Why narrow down on just one team? Because there's very little chance that Coleman can make them look stupid for trading him away if he AGAIN has no QB of note to connect with.

I genuinely believe that Hue (and to an extent Dorsey) are not great at football decisions. They are great at DUPING PEOPLE INTO BELIEVING they are great at football decisions, and thus retain their high paying awesome jobs. Jeff Fisher did this for over a decade before the masses FINALLY realized it wasn't just a string of tough breaks he had and it was indeed his decisions driving his teams to misery. So...how do you give a little insurance that your decision to ship a WR out so cheaply (at a position on pretty shaky ground) won't come back to bite you in the public eye of judgment? Pick a location where that asset will have a very hard time throwing mud on your face.

Really, I'm being more dramatic than I believe this to be...but it's certainly a stupid decision IMO. The only thing that would make this a non-stupid decision is if Coleman were truly an off-the-field mess...like Josh Gordon level of mess...wait...

I think Coleman pissed Hue Jackson off, and was sent packing...but they weren't about to reward him by sending him to a good situation, so trade partners were limited. Hence only getting a 7th. If that's the truth, once again it's a dumb decision to side with Hue Jackson.

[btv802]

I was going to bring up this split as well.

Yooooooooooooo!

I like how your brain works.

[hockeyBjj]

From one dumpster fire to another. Ouch

He's who the Browns took when they traded out of the 2nd overall pick and the Eagles took Carson Wentz lol

[Ice]

I was lower on Coleman coming out of college than almost anyone I know. Took him off my fantasy draft board in round 1. His straight line speed was really all he had going for him. One thing, I think many in the scouting community at the NFL discount how a player catches a ball. I also think many in scouting then look at catching ability with a college ball vs an NFL ball which is bigger.

Coleman flat couldn't catch. He dropped 10 passes his last year in college and had at least another 10 near drops. I remember thinking constantly during my evaluation how many lucky catches he had. Nothing about catching a pass looked easy for him. Should have been a DB.

In addition to small hands (9") he simply couldn't change pace or gear down once at speed to cut off routes or change direction. All of his suddenness off the line is great but if you can't change gears up or down you become completely one dimensional. He simply cannot play like the Odell's of the NFL and never will.

Cleveland's GM Brown's legacy may be of his 24 selections 5 may hit with the only real lock unquestioned pick in Garrett as a no brainer type pick. Joe Schobert seems to be a find in the fourth and it's a little early to know about a few others like David Njoku but by enlarge it sure seems they did little research on college players translating to professionals.

Sashi Brown may have been the worst GM ever.

Maybe Coleman has off field attitude concerns but I am with a few others around here that think he was a poser at the WR position and simply could run by defenders in college. His game doesn't translate to the pro level. He had a lot Tavon Austin in his game at the college level. We are just now seeing improvement in Tavon. That type of game is easy to fool people especially if the scouts and decision makers do not weigh in breaking ability along with raw speed.

Think he is a bust with talent and unless Buffalo's coaches can teach him the art of being a WR's he will bust in Buffalo. Thinking he doesn't want to learn or doesn't take to coaching at all. From what I have seen out of the new Buffalo regime, they won't tolerate any BS so Coleman could be cut given they risked nothing much to get him.

[Cameron Giles]

Just some thoughts and observations in defense of Coleman because why not...

• Coleman has more career yards and TDs than Agholor did at this point in his career despite playing in 9 fewer games. Agholor was similarly made fun of and generally considered worthless last offseason.

• When healthy and playing with an actually competent QB like Josh McCown, Coleman's stats were respectable and comparable to Agholor's 2017 season with MVP level Wentz. When healthy and playing with RGIII/Kessler/Kizer they were...not so good.

This is a good observation. Cleveland's QB situation definitely didn't help him out. He played with Kizer, RG3, McCown, Kessler and Hogan. As you noted, McCown is the best of that group and he played well with him. But, now he's going to Buffalo where there's McCarron, Peterman and Allen. Allen's arm talent would seem to fit well with Coleman, but who knows when he'll make starts.

The other thing is that Coleman simply has to get better. He can't run a full route tree (even though he has the talent to) and there was a report that the Browns were alarmed by how little detail he knew about the position. I guess you could fault Baylor for limiting him to fly routes, quick slants and dead routes.

[ninotoreS]

Folks, remember that for the Browns, Coleman will forever have this as something to be remembered by.

That the Browns would jettison Coleman so cheaply clearly implies they're convinced he's nearly worthless, and we can reasonably assume what's convinced them of that is their eye-witness experience to his performance in practice and/or insider knowledge of medical concerns.

Speaking of the latter, Coleman has broken the same hand twice in the same way back to back years. Maybe his ability to actually catch a football is compromised?

And there's been hints since 2016 that Al Saunders (Browns offensive assistant and wide-receivers coach) has a low opinion of Coleman's fundamental grasp of the WR position.

Maybe the Browns are wrong to give up on Coleman, maybe they're not, but what's certain is that they had plenty of reason to hold to hope that Coleman would pan out, so we can assume they aren't pleased it's ended this way and wouldn't have made the decision hastily.

On the other hand, this is good news for Antonio Callaway.

He gets to play on a 1-31 team with Target Hog Landry?

- as if win-loss record matters to us?
- Browns didn't draft Baker Mayfield 1.1 to game-manage
- a good passing offense can feed more than one WR, obviously
- the fundamental point is that the Browns must already be pleased with what Callaway has shown them

hth

[btv802]

On the other hand, this is good news for Antonio Callaway.

He gets to play on a 1-31 team with Target Hog Landry?

- as if win-loss record matters to us?
- Browns didn't draft Baker Mayfield 1.1 to game-manage
- a good passing offense can feed more than one WR, obviously
- the fundamental point is that the Browns must already be pleased with what Callaway has shown them

hth

It's good news for Calloway. It's ok to call this good news for Calloway.

[Valhalla]

Folks, remember that for the Browns, Coleman will forever have this as something to be remembered by.

That the Browns would jettison Coleman so cheaply clearly implies they're convinced he's nearly worthless, and we can reasonably assume what's convinced them of that is their eye-witness experience to his performance in practice and/or insider knowledge of medical concerns.

Speaking of the latter, Coleman has broken the same hand twice in the same way back to back years. Maybe his ability to actually catch a football is compromised?

And there's been hints since 2016 that Al Saunders (Browns offensive assistant and wide-receivers coach) has a low opinion of Coleman's fundamental grasp of the WR position.

Maybe the Browns are wrong to give up on Coleman, maybe they're not, but what's certain is that they had plenty of reason to hold to hope that Coleman would pan out, so we can assume they aren't pleased it's ended this way and wouldn't have made the decision hastily.

On the other hand, this is good news for Antonio Callaway.

He gets to play on a 1-31 team with Target Hog Landry?

- as if win-loss record matters to us?
- Browns didn't draft Baker Mayfield 1.1 to game-manage
- a good passing offense can feed more than one WR, obviously
- the fundamental point is that the Browns must already be pleased with what Callaway has shown them

hth

Callaway owners should be happy with this news. All other Browns WRs get a bump from me.

[flyersfan1981]

I was lower on Coleman coming out of college than almost anyone I know. Took him off my fantasy draft board in round 1. His straight line speed was really all he had going for him. One thing, I think many in the scouting community at the NFL discount how a player catches a ball. I also think many in scouting then look at catching ability with a college ball vs an NFL ball which is bigger.

Coleman flat couldn't catch. He dropped 10 passes his last year in college and had at least another 10 near drops. I remember thinking constantly during my evaluation how many lucky catches he had. Nothing about catching a pass looked easy for him. Should have been a DB.

In addition to small hands (9") he simply couldn't change pace or gear down once at speed to cut off routes or change direction. All of his suddenness off the line is great but if you can't change gears up or down you become completely one dimensional. He simply cannot play like the Odell's of the NFL and never will.

Cleveland's GM Brown's legacy may be of his 24 selections 5 may hit with the only real lock unquestioned pick in Garrett as a no brainer type pick. Joe Schobert seems to be a find in the fourth and it's a little early to know about a few others like David Njoku but by enlarge it sure seems they did little research on college players translating to professionals.

Sashi Brown may have been the worst GM ever.

Maybe Coleman has off field attitude concerns but I am with a few others around here that think he was a poser at the WR position and simply could run by defenders in college. His game doesn't translate to the pro level. He had a lot Tavon Austin in his game at the college level. We are just now seeing improvement in Tavon. That type of game is easy to fool people especially if the scouts and decision makers do not weigh in breaking ability along with raw speed.

Think he is a bust with talent and unless Buffalo's coaches can teach him the art of being a WR's he will bust in Buffalo. Thinking he doesn't want to learn or doesn't take to coaching at all. From what I have seen out of the new Buffalo regime, they won't tolerate any BS so Coleman could be cut given they risked nothing much to get him.

(Mic Drop)

[Valhalla]

It’s baffling to me...truly baffling, that Corey Coleman’s drop is “the reason” the Browns went 0-16. Even making that catch, there’s a good chance the Browns go on to lose that game anyways. It’s not like he dropped a touchdown, or even a pass that put them in game winning field goal range. He didn’t “cause” 0-16.

There is one man that is the main reason they went 0-16, and he’s still leading the team.