Josh Allen - Time to Believe!

[playa_hata]

Lol, it's all good. I just hate to see another community member die on the Josh Allen hill. It's not worth it. If he ends up good, awesome, better for the NFL and for fantasy players, but it's asinine and just ignorant to claim he's the #1 QB. Then again, none of us really know bleep and can just say whatever we want because it'll be years before we actually know the answer.

Unless the Browns do decide to draft him, in which case he'll be destroyed in a year.

Very true. Date of death: 04/26/2018 for Allen if that happens. Cleveland should be charged with murder.

cleveland should lose its privelage to draft ever again if they take allen at 1 or 4

[Forza_Azzurri]

Other than John Elway and Jim Kelley, and to a lesser extent Cam Newton, are there any other big, strong, fast, cannon-armed QBs who became ELITE NFL QBs? I can't think of any, off hand. Cam has all the qualities, but I'm not sure I'd throw him into the ELITE category. In fact, I know I can't.

Matthew Stanford, Brett Favre ... heck, I’d throw Flacco & Cutler into the list as non-Elite but “Franchise” QBs.

[ericanadian]

I'm not super high on the kid. Reminds me of the Jake Locker hype, who also had garbage accuracy in college.

The best QB in the last twenty years with accuracy even remotely as poor as Allen in college is probably Jay Cutler, which isn't a terrible comparable.

His receivers sucked, sure, but the Wyoming QB before him had pretty much the same receivers and managed to put up a 63.1% completion percentage.

He was a two star recruit just two years ago. His only interest was from Wyoming coming out of juco. I get that college teams sometimes collectively miss. You can bring up Russell Wilson, who was also a two star recruit with only one interested team... but Wilson was heavily undersized. We all understand that teams will underrate guys that are short and play QB. There is nothing about Josh Allen that strikes me as something often missed by college evaluators.

Personally, I hope he falls to the Broncos. Maybe the press will stop talking about Elway like he knows how to evaluate talent finally.

Aaron Rodgers wasn’t ranked at all coming out of high school. Went to JUCO and after one year, his only offer was from California..Tedford wasn’t even there to see Rodgers but happened to notice him.

When I watch Josh Allen play, I see something special but that’s just me. I do think everyone is over exaggerating him being inaccurate. You give him the same talent as Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen and his stats would look better. Heck if some of the dropped passes were catches, he would probably be close to 60% completion %, if not in the low 60’s and have a few more td’s then how would you all view him?

Rodgers shows up in rivals as a three star recruit coming out of juco. Still had Allen beat.

My issue with the completion percentage is there are literally no successful QBs in the NFL that were even close to that low in college and I'm sure a lot of them had garbage teams and suffered from drops as well. Jay Cutler is as close as I can find and even he had three points on Allen and are we really going to be happy if his upside turns out to be Cutler?

Neither of those things necessarily make Allen a sure bust, but when the word unprecedented starts coming up in terms of bad stats, I tend to let someone else try and beat the odds.

[RCogburn]

Jamarcus Russell had a cannon...

*sigh*

QBs who are known for their arm strength and not things like accuracy do not appeal to me personally.

I think from his physical talent, Allen may have the biggest ceiling but also probably has the lowest floor.

Kyle Boller was another one. Threw a football through the goalposts while kneeling on the 50. I think Allen just did the same thing recently.

[XxBallMeBlazerxX]

I have Allen, Lauletta and Rudolph all pretty much equal to each other

Interesting. I haven’t watched tape on Lauretta yet so I’ll have to try to get to that soon.

[flashgordon12]

hes garbage honesetly so innacurate and cant win big games let alone win in general. ill honestly never watch a browns game again if we take allen

Can't win big games?! Obviously you didn't watch the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl! Plus he has really big hands and looks good in shorts.

[XxBallMeBlazerxX]

I'm not super high on the kid. Reminds me of the Jake Locker hype, who also had garbage accuracy in college.

The best QB in the last twenty years with accuracy even remotely as poor as Allen in college is probably Jay Cutler, which isn't a terrible comparable.

His receivers sucked, sure, but the Wyoming QB before him had pretty much the same receivers and managed to put up a 63.1% completion percentage.

He was a two star recruit just two years ago. His only interest was from Wyoming coming out of juco. I get that college teams sometimes collectively miss. You can bring up Russell Wilson, who was also a two star recruit with only one interested team... but Wilson was heavily undersized. We all understand that teams will underrate guys that are short and play QB. There is nothing about Josh Allen that strikes me as something often missed by college evaluators.

Personally, I hope he falls to the Broncos. Maybe the press will stop talking about Elway like he knows how to evaluate talent finally.

Aaron Rodgers wasn’t ranked at all coming out of high school. Went to JUCO and after one year, his only offer was from California..Tedford wasn’t even there to see Rodgers but happened to notice him.

When I watch Josh Allen play, I see something special but that’s just me. I do think everyone is over exaggerating him being inaccurate. You give him the same talent as Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen and his stats would look better. Heck if some of the dropped passes were catches, he would probably be close to 60% completion %, if not in the low 60’s and have a few more td’s then how would you all view him?

Rodgers shows up in rivals as a three star recruit coming out of juco. Still had Allen beat.

My issue with the completion percentage is there are literally no successful QBs in the NFL that were even close to that low in college and I'm sure a lot of them had garbage teams and suffered from drops as well. Jay Cutler is as close as I can find and even he had three points on Allen and are we really going to be happy if his upside turns out to be Cutler?

Neither of those things necessarily make Allen a sure bust, but when the word unprecedented starts coming up in terms of bad stats, I tend to let someone else try and beat the odds.

You’re really digging deep man.

Hmm from the top of my head, Matt Ryan was 3 points higher I believe for college career. Dan Marino was around there and I think Brett Favre was 52%?

[XxBallMeBlazerxX]

Jamarcus Russell had a cannon...

*sigh*

QBs who are known for their arm strength and not things like accuracy do not appeal to me personally.

I think from his physical talent, Allen may have the biggest ceiling but also probably has the lowest floor.

Kyle Boller was another one. Threw a football through the goalposts while kneeling on the 50. I think Allen just did the same thing recently.

If we’re thinking of the same thing, it was from 30 yards out and they were asked to hit the crossbar in the middle I believe. Allen was the only one who could do it. Not too sure who all participated.

[ArrylT]

I can see why Bollers name is mentioned - I have always wondered what direction his career would have gone had he not been replaced by Steve McNair in 2006-7 (McNair was named the starter even before training camp). Then I believe he had actually won the starting job in 2008 (over Flacco & Heisman winner Troy Smith) before an injury in pre-season (torn labrum). Bascially injuries, and being benched for an All-Star had a lot to do with Bollers career trajectory.

[Cult of Dionysus]

Other than John Elway and Jim Kelley, and to a lesser extent Cam Newton, are there any other big, strong, fast, cannon-armed QBs who became ELITE NFL QBs? I can't think of any, off hand. Cam has all the qualities, but I'm not sure I'd throw him into the ELITE category. In fact, I know I can't.

Matthew Stanford, Brett Favre ... heck, I’d throw Flacco & Cutler into the list as non-Elite but “Franchise” QBs.

WEll, I guess I was looking not just for arm strength but also size, speed and athleticism. None of those four guys had it all. Only a select few check all those boxes, Elway, Luck (though he doesn't use his size speed much at all), Jim Kelley (in the 1st half of his career).

[Forza_Azzurri]

FWIW, if I were an NFL GM, I would probably take Rosen first (although, I’d be really worried his concussions). Of the other top 5 QBs: Darnold’s turnovers and regression in 2017 are concerning, Allen obviously has the accuracy issues, Jackson has comparable accuracy issues to Allen, and Mayfield is probably the least risky, but I don’t see the high ceiling that the others offer.

[Jason3123]

Stafford and Ryan did have completion %’s below 60% but Stafford crushed Allen in AYA. Ryan’s senior year was on par with Allen in terms of AYA and % but he wasn’t nearly the raw prospect Allen is. Ryan also threw the ball over 600+ times for over 4,500 yards his senior year. Allen wasn’t nearly the focal point of his offense that Ryan was. Allen was basically hidden by his coaches.

[XxBallMeBlazerxX]

Stafford and Ryan did have completion %’s below 60% but Stafford crushed Allen in AYA. Ryan’s senior year was on par with Allen in terms of AYA and % but he wasn’t nearly the raw prospect Allen is. Ryan also threw the ball over 600+ times for over 4,500 yards his senior year. Allen wasn’t nearly the focal point of his offense that Ryan was. Allen was basically hidden by his coaches.

What’s your excuse for Dan Marino and Brett Favre? Both had worse college stats than Allen. And dude if they were trying to hide Allen then he wouldn’t have been the starter. Gtfo of here with that. If they were trying to hide him then they wouldn’t of had him throw down field. They would of had him throw short wide open passes like Mayfield.

[Jason3123]

Stafford and Ryan did have completion %’s below 60% but Stafford crushed Allen in AYA. Ryan’s senior year was on par with Allen in terms of AYA and % but he wasn’t nearly the raw prospect Allen is. Ryan also threw the ball over 600+ times for over 4,500 yards his senior year. Allen wasn’t nearly the focal point of his offense that Ryan was. Allen was basically hidden by his coaches.

What’s your excuse for Dan Marino and Brett Favre? Both had worse college stats than Allen. And dude if they were trying to hide Allen then he wouldn’t have been the starter. Gtfo of here with that. If they were trying to hide him then they wouldn’t of had him throw down field. They would of had him throw short wide open passes like Mayfield.

Once again your response about Baker sucks and lacks any merit whatsoever. Allen did throw horribly short passes, that's why his Y/A sucks. Favre was a 2nd round pick, not the #1 pick, which is what everyone is arguing in this thread, that Allen shouldn't be the #1 pick..or a 1st round pick in general. Also, congrats on choosing 1 out of a 1,000 QB prospects for your argument. Favre is an outlier. Don't chase outliers.

[XxBallMeBlazerxX]

Stafford and Ryan did have completion %’s below 60% but Stafford crushed Allen in AYA. Ryan’s senior year was on par with Allen in terms of AYA and % but he wasn’t nearly the raw prospect Allen is. Ryan also threw the ball over 600+ times for over 4,500 yards his senior year. Allen wasn’t nearly the focal point of his offense that Ryan was. Allen was basically hidden by his coaches.

What’s your excuse for Dan Marino and Brett Favre? Both had worse college stats than Allen. And dude if they were trying to hide Allen then he wouldn’t have been the starter. Gtfo of here with that. If they were trying to hide him then they wouldn’t of had him throw down field. They would of had him throw short wide open passes like Mayfield.

Once again your response about Baker sucks and lacks any merit whatsoever. Allen did throw horribly short passes, that's why his Y/A sucks. Favre was a 2nd round pick, not the #1 pick, which is what everyone is arguing in this thread, that Allen shouldn't be the #1 pick..or a 1st round pick in general. Also, congrats on choosing 1 out of a 1,000 QB prospects for your argument. Favre is an outlier. Don't chase outliers.

Lol ok dude, well let’s hear your reasons why he shouldn’t be the 1st pick or taken in the 1st round, without using stats. Break it down for us kid. Let’s hear it. Why is he so ‘inaccurate’?