Tarik Cohen Fan Club

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Bot101
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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Bot101 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:12 pm

Reljac wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:08 am
Bot101 wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:01 pm He took a couple monster hits. Plus he broke several arm tackles and plowed over Trufant (not that Trufant is huge but there is quite a size difference) for his TD.
I don't call this a monster hit. He was able to see it coming and squared his shoulder. it was a hard hit, but very clean hit where the pads take the brunt of the impact. Hardly the type of hit that results in an injury and more likely a standard hit in the NFL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaf5Ez9mHnU

Thats a pretty big hit. Maybe monster isnt the right word. He also got hit hard by the LB #59 earlier. Im not arguing that he can take that level of punishment on a 20 touch basis regularly. But it looked to me that the falcons were trying to hit him hard.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Reljac » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:37 pm

Howard listed as questionable. If howard goes doubtful or out before game time, Cohen would be a very interesting play this week in dailies. Tampa Bay gave up the 7th most receiving yards to RBs among all teams last year and 11th most rushing yards and an average of 1RB TD per game.
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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby cazzie33 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:40 pm

Eliminating a player purely based on some metrics bias is "short"sides (see what I did there)

I guess back in the day you would've downgraded Walter , Barry and anyone else 200lbs or less/5'9" or under as potential workhorse backs. At some point you must trust your eyes and see they are special talents combined with extreme desire and heart.

Tarik is probably going to be playing @ more than the 179 lbs everyone loves to quote. I'd be very surprised if he didn't exceed that now after his first professional training camp. Numerous NFL backs came into the league @ 15-20lbs under their eventual playing weight. I'm going out on a limb to guess the Bears training table and weight program is a bit more intensive than NC A&T .

Ray Rice, Joe Morris, Stump Mitchell, Westbrook, Dunn and Dave Meggett all had relatively long careers as far as nfl RB's go. Today's game isn't as brutal as in their day although today's speed provides violent collisions.

Cohen plays in space which plays nicely off of Howard's power style. Leaving defenses in a quandary when Bears put both on the field. B. Sanders was never a good between the tackles straight ahead power runner but still had many of his best runs on delayed draws up the middle. Tarik can do that 3-5 times a game. Like all smaller backs he will do his damage on the edge/stretch runs or cutback lanes as runner. Up to ten times a game is doable.

Today's game is a passing game more & more so 5 catches is easily within reason. Ten plus points is successful in PPR which is almost a lock . Standard is dicier but around 7-8 makes him usable as a flex or bye week replacement with upside for more if he hits a big play. Same as Tyreek.

I'm happy to have metrics naysayers in my leagues to get those players cheap. Keep them off your radar if you like based on physical profiling. I'll keep watching their unique skills & rare off the charts agility put up useful stats for at least a couple of years to come. That's successful in my book.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:53 pm

20 lbs is a major difference, you can't really be comparing Peyton and sanders, rice, Westbrook, etc who were all around 200 lbs.

I see the "he will play at a higher weight" argument all the time about many players, but you can't just apply that in a vacuum. That's a standard trope for just about every player in the league, that they added 5-10 lbs of muscle in the offseason. If Cohen adds weight (and that's a big if considering his small frame), you have to assume most other rbs did as well, in which case Cohen is still significantly smaller than most other rbs.

If we look at his production, he did look good but I think we can all agree his rushing in terms of a 13 YPC was a complete fluke. His YPR, derived from a higher volume of touches and what he's supposed to excel at, was poor when compared to other good pass catching rbs. My point being you can't really point to his insane rushing efficiency yet ignore his receiving inefficiency.

Im not taking a stand one way or the other really, he looks like a player, but just be fair with your arguments. Any kind of Sanders comparison or even mentioning the two in the same sentence or even same paragraph is blasphemy.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby cazzie33 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:06 pm

I had Barry his whole career and been watching the Lions long before he started. His running style philosophy wasn't any different than Cohen. Yes he was stronger and lasted longer than most but he was an inefficient straight downhill runner. Bobby "The Boss" Ross called for Sanders to run up into the designed play which produced his 2,000 yds season but also left him the most bruised and battered in his career. Played one more year and retired. Ross ran more of a power back offense that wasn't Barry's cup of tea.

Point being you don't ask a player to do things that aren't his strengths. Chicago won't run Cohen in the conventional way like Howard. Or should I say they shouldn't. Use him the way Andy Reid did Westbrook. Tarik has exhibited toughness to pop up from big hits but you don't ask 200 lb or less guys to be battering rams. Only Walter got away playing that style consistently. Rice was the next closest but he had a shorter window of success.

Now the one guy that most closely resembles Tarik and played I believe 13 yrs is Eric Metcalf. I've said it other forums. I truly believe Cohen plays the same kinda game. Metcalf had more pure speed but the stop on a dime change of direction, great hands combined with pure natural football instincts will make him a pro bowl player someday. I took him in every draft starting back in May right up until my last one Sept. 3rd where I took him @ 28th overall in rookie/free agent draft that had Pryor/Tyreek/Crowder/Marshawn available so essentially late 2nd rd. Before Zay/Golladay / Godwin/ Samuel/ Riddick

Everyone thought I was crazy with Howard there but I see Cohen neck & neck with McCaffrey who went 20+ picks earlier. Bears I figured would be in catchup mode most games so Tarik would get his chances as Howard I saw @ Indiana several games. He's no receiver RB. Was more concerned with Cunningham.

Projected over 1000 combined yds (62.5 per GM) w/ 50 catches. Six TD's. 180+ PPR/ 130-140 STD .That may be low with depleted WR corps and his early first game success possibly buying him an even larger role than I initially figured. (8-10 touches per GM)

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:55 am

Don't disagree about CMC. If you took away draft pedigree and all that, there isn't much difference between them at all.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Phaded » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:56 am

Are you guys ready for round 2?

I am - I have him plugged into both of my starting lineups.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Plank » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:10 am

As a Buc fan, no .. I want to squish him like a Bug .. Unfortunately TB's DEF is similar in scope to ATL's ..
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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby jeffster » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:51 am

Every comp that people make for Cohen is a bad one, because there aren't any comparable (successful) players. At least not physically.

Everyone people keep picking is maybe similar in one category, but bigger in another. No RB has been 5'6, 179 pounds, with 1st percentile strength, and been successful. Nobody.

I hear Barry Sanders name come up regularly, which is honestly amusing. I mean, other than being taller, heavier, the third overall draft pick, a Heisman Trophy winner, and the possessor of the most absurd college season ever recorded (3,248 total yards, 39 tds), yeah, they're basically identical.

And sure, it's possible that Cohen puts on weight with an NFL workout regime... but isn't that true for literally every player in the NFL? And the figures we have for all of them, as far as I know, come from their combine and pro days. I had to look up Erik Metcalf, because I couldn't remember anything about him, but he's listed at 5'9, 190, and as you said, was apparently even faster than Cohen? That's not a good physical comp.

I mean, I still hope Cohen can be successful, because he's genuinely fun to watch with the ball. But as his value keeps creeping upward, you should really keep in mind that the odds are stacked against him. I'll enjoy hoping he beats the odds from someone elses roster.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Reljac » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:07 am

jeffster wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:51 am I hear Barry Sanders name come up regularly, which is honestly amusing. I mean, other than being taller, heavier, the third overall draft pick, a Heisman Trophy winner, and the possessor of the most absurd college season ever recorded (3,248 total yards, 39 tds), yeah, they're basically identical.
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RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker


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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Space Cowboy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:09 pm

I think he is 100% identical Sproles clone. Explosive in the pass game, inconsistent in the run game with lots of negative rushes with a gorgeous 37 yard burst throw in somewhere every other game. TDs will be hard to come by on any sort of consistent basis.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby cazzie33 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:25 pm

I'm glad all of you metrics genius types fail to believe your lying eyes. Barry played 10 yrs, Sproles about the same , Metcalf 13 with 10 or so productive ones. B. Westbrook had I believe 6-7 .

Small guys who are good at it not taking extra hits can survive by making most of their plays in space. Where were Terelle Davis, Arian Foster, Dave Megget and many more drafted ? Once you get in the league it doesn't matter if you can play . Sure a high pick gets more run but if you show talent you will get your turn.

Cohen got his shot and isn't going away . He has run inside and out so far and ripped off the best run of the game in overtime that should've been a 70ish yds TD that incorrectly got ruled he stepped out of bounds. ( watch the replay)

Just like Barry he is unique in his style. Freak athleticism combined with endurance & desire to be great. The vision for cutback lanes and explosive cuts to get them there are traits they share. Clap, mock and be dismissive of the comparison but if he got the blocking that Howard got against the Steelers Tarik would've been over 200 yds.

Not saying Cohen should replace Howard (yet) but a fairly equal set of snaps is in the cards. Especially if they get on the field together. The Bears are already using Cohen as reverse decoy to freeze the pursuit on Howard carries to great effect opening lanes for Jordan. Again, watch the film. As coaches say ; "the tape don't lie" . Once they establish a semblance of a passing game this Chicago offense can be lethal. Not expecting it to happen with this year's WR corps but the tandem of Howard & Cohen stresses the defense to the max which should open up great opportunities for the passing game on the outside and deep downfield. Just need the players to execute it.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby maxhyde » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:41 pm

3 games...looks good...but 3 games.
Lets not say he is sproles or better just yet...all the guys you listed were pretty exceptional players...for years, not 3 games.

I will say he looks pretty good right now. My instinct is to take advantage and sell but who knows...maybe he will turn out to be exceptional too. If guys were offering early 2nds or 1sts I would be out of shares quickly
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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby ninotoreS » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:48 am

My view of him hasn't changed these last few weeks. Mostly it's just been reinforced. Legit talent, but he needs to get up to at least 190lbs before he can be safely projected long-term as a 15-touches-a-week space-back. I think he can do it, but a possibility isn't a guarantee.

I think if he could get up to 195lbs, he could be a genuine feature-back, with 15 carries a week plus receptions. Being able to put on that much more lean weight is very unlikely, though.
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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby clarion contrarion » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:40 am

15 carries a week plus receptions is a pipe dream sproles never avg more than 11 touches a game in his career he is a terrific weapon that will never be more than a gimmick guy like it or not . Absolutely love the kids talent . In an offense with some serious wr weapons he will be more dangerous and is a fine COP to howard but don't kid yourself into thinking he will ever be a feature back.
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