Cooks vs watkins poll

This is the spot for player-to-player comparisons.

which one

watkins
20
33%
cooks
41
67%
 
Total votes: 61

krackback
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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby krackback » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:51 pm

Cooks can go deep....Kupp is a much better route runner imo. Kupp will be the #1 wr for the Rams. Goff is a check down QB that relies on the run game due to them having a great def/Gurley. Think about what Brees did to avg wrs and their production in their career... they made wrs better if the had real talent. Cooks will play the Watkins role like last year but will fail to get the TDs that Watkins got. If Cooks is so good why did the Saints and Patriots let him go?
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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby Bot101 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:14 pm

krackback wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:51 pm Cooks can go deep....Kupp is a much better route runner imo. Kupp will be the #1 wr for the Rams. Goff is a check down QB that relies on the run game due to them having a great def/Gurley. Think about what Brees did to avg wrs and their production in their career... they made wrs better if the had real talent. Cooks will play the Watkins role like last year but will fail to get the TDs that Watkins got. If Cooks is so good why did the Saints and Patriots let him go?
I actually dont care all that much for either. However, if Watkins is so good why did the Rams let him walk and pay Cooks? If Watkins is so good why did the Bills show him the door? The road goes both ways.

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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby abajaba » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:18 am

I'm surprised at all the Watkins love/Cooks hate here. Watkins hasn't produced anything consistent and has been on multiple teams the last few years all while supposedly being the #1 on each of those teams. Meanwhile Cooks, while never being the true #1, has put up 3 straight 1000 yard seasons while averaging 7tds a season. If Watkins was close to Cooks in talent I think the Rams would of just signed him instead of trading a 1st for Cooks and then giving him money. Cooks is faster, runs better routes, has better hands, and is far more durable.

Cooks is the most talented pass catcher on the Rams.
Watkins is the 3rd most talented pass catcher on the Chiefs behind both Hill & Kelce.

Everyone wants to hype up this Chiefs offense with an unknown QB that has promise. This Rams offense was flying last year in their 1st year with McVay and tons of youth.

I am very excited as a Cooks owner, I would not be as excited as a Watkins owner.
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RB-Gurley,Fournette,Connor,Bell,McKinnon,Dion Lewis,Ballage,Yeldon,Doug Martin
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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby krackback » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:29 pm

Cooks owners will not be happy when he becomes ww trash with a small role in the rams off. " Los Angeles Rams WR Cooper Kupp caught 18-of-23 targets for 320 yards against press coverage in 2017. His receiver rating of 147.7 and catch rate of 78.3 percent were both ranked third among receivers with at least 10 targets, according to Pro Football Focus." Cooks will be exposed big time this year, better hope he becomes a better route runner. Brees and Brady didn't want Cooks, which says a lot imo.
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WR D. Adams, D. Moncrief, A. Robinson, Fitz, Godwin, Gordon, Shepard
TE Eifert, Njoku, Everett, Kroft
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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby Orenthal Shames » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:06 am

Goddard wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:07 am
BigBawseRoss wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:37 am previously i would have said cooks but now i like sammy more. i think he has more potential in KC than cooks does in LA. going forward i have sammy over cooks. i personally think cooks value will fall while sammys can only rise.
I'd actually argue that Sammy has more/better competition for targets with Hill and Kelce, than Cooks does with Kupp and Woods. And at this point, Goff is the proven QB who I'd rather have throwing to my WR than Mahomes (that can obviously change quickly if Mahomes ends up proving he can be a good QB). So in terms of situation, I think Cooks' is better for now. I'd also argue the part about Sammy's value only rising. If he struggles in KC, even his supporters will start losing faith.
This was pretty much word for word what I was going to say.
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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby Titans95 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:04 pm

Goddard wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:16 pm People here argued that McKinnon and Watkins must be good because they got paid. If that's the case, then Cooks > Watkins. For what it's worth, I don't typically value my players based on their contracts and would have taken Cooks over Watkins even before he got his extension.
I think I'll be take the 10million more guaranteed over 200,000 per year extra on average. Also Cooks will be 30 getting a new contract whereas Sammy will be 28 and will earn a higher second contract if they perform equally. Sammy has the better deal not Cooks

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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby FantasyFreak » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:37 pm

krackback wrote: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:29 pm Cooks owners will not be happy when he becomes ww trash with a small role in the rams off. " Los Angeles Rams WR Cooper Kupp caught 18-of-23 targets for 320 yards against press coverage in 2017. His receiver rating of 147.7 and catch rate of 78.3 percent were both ranked third among receivers with at least 10 targets, according to Pro Football Focus." Cooks will be exposed big time this year, better hope he becomes a better route runner. Brees and Brady didn't want Cooks, which says a lot imo.
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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby Goddard » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:58 pm

Titans95 wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:04 pm
Goddard wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:16 pm People here argued that McKinnon and Watkins must be good because they got paid. If that's the case, then Cooks > Watkins. For what it's worth, I don't typically value my players based on their contracts and would have taken Cooks over Watkins even before he got his extension.
I think I'll be take the 10million more guaranteed over 200,000 per year extra on average. Also Cooks will be 30 getting a new contract whereas Sammy will be 28 and will earn a higher second contract if they perform equally. Sammy has the better deal not Cooks
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Cooks got 49.5 mill guaranteed and Sammy got 30. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's the case, Cooks' contract has more guaranteed, more overall money, more years, and more annual average. Also, their next contract has nothing to do with the argument I was making and assumes that they both perform equally. I also stated I don't agree with the premise and just pointing out what others were saying, and then contradicting themselves. I don't even know if you were one of the people I was referring to.

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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby Titans95 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:09 pm

Goddard wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:58 pm
Titans95 wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:04 pm
Goddard wrote: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:16 pm People here argued that McKinnon and Watkins must be good because they got paid. If that's the case, then Cooks > Watkins. For what it's worth, I don't typically value my players based on their contracts and would have taken Cooks over Watkins even before he got his extension.
I think I'll be take the 10million more guaranteed over 200,000 per year extra on average. Also Cooks will be 30 getting a new contract whereas Sammy will be 28 and will earn a higher second contract if they perform equally. Sammy has the better deal not Cooks
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Cooks got 49.5 mill guaranteed and Sammy got 30. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's the case, Cooks' contract has more guaranteed, more overall money, more years, and more annual average. Also, their next contract has nothing to do with the argument I was making and assumes that they both perform equally. I also stated I don't agree with the premise and just pointing out what others were saying, and then contradicting themselves. I don't even know if you were one of the people I was referring to.
Lol no no I was just making a statement that while yes Cooks' deal looks more lucrative at first, Sammy is the one that actually has the better deal. Not disagreeing or agreeing with any other argument.

Upon further inspection I was misreading the information on spotrac. Cooks has 49mil guaranteed but only 20 mill guaranteed at signing whereas sammy has 30 mill guaranteed at signing and overall? I'm not sure the difference and was looking at the guaranteed at signing by mistake when evaluating them.

I believe any of the money thats more than the guaranteed at signing becomes fully guaranteed at the start of the new league year in 2020 so in theory they could get out from under cooks with only 2.8 mill in dead cap (still a ton) if they absolutely needed to but honestly all that is really confusing to me lol

As for the who makes more money argument I think its only really relevant if one player is getting 15 million a year and the other player is on a 3rd round rookie contract on the same team. (Watkins vs Hill). Still think Hill will have a big role in the offense but you don't pay someone the 4th highest WR salary per year to play second fiddle to a Tyreek who is only making 670,000. That would just be extremely poor cash management on the GM.

I guess the same argument could be made for Cooks vs Kupp/Woods but for me it boils down to what I've always been saying about Cooks, I do not think he has the build/traits to be a true WR1 for a team and really don't think the Rams need him to be anything more than a better deep threat than Sammy whereas I think Sammy has the capabilities to be THE guy and do more than just go deep.

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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby ColdZealDonkeyStrike » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:52 am

Football contacts are so stupidly complicated. Now we've got to factor in when the money is guaranteed?
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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby Titans95 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:59 am

jtd1387 wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:52 am Football contacts are so stupidly complicated. Now we've got to factor in when the money is guaranteed?
Its not a huge factor but its something to absolutely look at. for instance every OJ Howard owner went into full panic mode when Brate signed a huge longterm contract but when you look at the fine print you realize the Bucs can pretty much get out from under Brate whenever they want for practically no dead money at all anytime after this season.

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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby IBall2 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:36 pm

Titans95 wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:09 pm
I guess the same argument could be made for Cooks vs Kupp/Woods but for me it boils down to what I've always been saying about Cooks, I do not think he has the build/traits to be a true WR1 for a team and really don't think the Rams need him to be anything more than a better deep threat than Sammy whereas I think Sammy has the capabilities to be THE guy and do more than just go deep.
Why would the Rams pay Cooks so much money to be just a deep threat decoy? They could have got Ted Ginn for his low salary contract of 3yr $11mil (this is what NO paid him) and saved the extra cash to sign Aaron Donald.

There's plenty of other deep threat decoy's that were in FA this offseason to pick from, Torrey Smith and CPatt also on this list, would have done just as good of a job stretching the field for less than $5mil a year.

I just don't understand the argument that people are trying to make, saying Cooks will be a decoy and is a poor route runner.

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2017/ ... -patriots/
This article from last year goes into good detail how well Cooks runs his routes, specifically the double move.

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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby Titans95 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:23 pm

IBall2 wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:36 pm
Titans95 wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:09 pm
I guess the same argument could be made for Cooks vs Kupp/Woods but for me it boils down to what I've always been saying about Cooks, I do not think he has the build/traits to be a true WR1 for a team and really don't think the Rams need him to be anything more than a better deep threat than Sammy whereas I think Sammy has the capabilities to be THE guy and do more than just go deep.
Why would the Rams pay Cooks so much money to be just a deep threat decoy? They could have got Ted Ginn for his low salary contract of 3yr $11mil (this is what NO paid him) and saved the extra cash to sign Aaron Donald.

There's plenty of other deep threat decoy's that were in FA this offseason to pick from, Torrey Smith and CPatt also on this list, would have done just as good of a job stretching the field for less than $5mil a year.

I just don't understand the argument that people are trying to make, saying Cooks will be a decoy and is a poor route runner.

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2017/ ... -patriots/
This article from last year goes into good detail how well Cooks runs his routes, specifically the double move.
Because none of those guys are as good as Cooks? being a deep threat doesn't mean you're a bad receiver it just means you arent going to get 90+ receptions a year. Probably more along the line of 70/1000/8 which is a solid WR2 but the upside is capped. Goff isn't a gunslinger and that team will be a run first and strong defensive team so him producing a statline of 84/1138/9 isn't likely. That is also one of the years Brees went off for 5,000 yards.

Just glancing at that article and it looks like it was pretty bias and a hype article for cooks coming into the patriots to start the season....there was quite a bit of hype last year for him going to the patriots and how he's the best receiver since Moss yada yada yada....65/1,085/7 is not a moss stat, especially since Edelman was gone and Hogan was outscoring him to start the year before injury.

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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby FiremanEd » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:37 pm

Still waiting to hear a compelling reason on why Watkins is > Cooks in the big picture. People want to point to Watkins as the reason and that’s about it (‘he’s just going to be Sammy in that offense!’)...which can easily be attributed to Sammy being Sammy and simply finding a way to disappoint. I made my prior post on the reasons I think Cooks is the better choice, which doesn’t mean Sammy can’t outproduce Cooks, but you’re taking more risk both that you see something not yet seen AND knowing that the floor will fall further if he fails.

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Re: Cooks vs watkins poll

Postby Titans95 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:38 pm

FiremanEd wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:37 pm Still waiting to hear a compelling reason on why Watkins is > Cooks in the big picture. People want to point to Watkins as the reason and that’s about it (‘he’s just going to be Sammy in that offense!’)...which can easily be attributed to Sammy being Sammy and simply finding a way to disappoint. I made my prior post on the reasons I think Cooks is the better choice, which doesn’t mean Sammy can’t outproduce Cooks, but you’re taking more risk both that you see something not yet seen AND knowing that the floor will fall further if he fails.
My original post was that Cooks is by far more valuable but then I divulged into taking a stance I like Sammy's long term outlook better. Would never trade Cooks for Sammy straight up but if I could get a 1st thrown in I would be pretty happy about that.


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