Andrew Luck

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Andrew Luck

Postby johninvandergrift » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:40 pm

I've seen Luck ranked as high as QB5. What's everyone thinking? He was/is rehabbing in the Netherlands? For me - something doesn't feel right.

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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby lukkynumber13 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:51 pm

I'll just say this: For Luck to not return to form, we would have to witness a total anomaly of modern sports science. That a QB in the absolute prime of his athletic life could be done in by shoulder surgeries, in 2017/18, it's just not likely.

How many studs in the PRIMES of their careers have had career-enders in the last decade? The best examples I can think of would be Brandon Roy, an absolute baller for the Portland Trailblazers who was hobbled by injuries and forced to retire very young. Another would be Derrick Rose, who has been able to "return" to basketball, but he's so far from what he once was as a basketball player. Those 2 guys were among the best in the world at what they did in sports, and their careers were effectively ended by injuries while they were still young.

Who else? Victor Cruz? David Wilson I suppose, but neck injuries are a different animal entirely, not unlike concussions.

I'm not saying I'm not concerned - I am. This certainly isn't a good thing. But I don't think it's a total game-changer for his career or the Colts organization either.

More than everything I just said above, the biggest reassurance to Luck dynasty owners should be the (presumed) hire of McDaniels. There is no WAY he would pick the Colts for his rebound job unless he had vetted the heck out of Luck's future.
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
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HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
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TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
BIJAN/BREECE/POLLARD
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KITTLE, Goedert
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MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
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MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
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TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby jonesmaster » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:27 pm

lukkynumber13 wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:51 pm I'll just say this: For Luck to not return to form, we would have to witness a total anomaly of modern sports science. That a QB in the absolute prime of his athletic life could be done in by shoulder surgeries, in 2017/18, it's just not likely.

How many studs in the PRIMES of their careers have had career-enders in the last decade? The best examples I can think of would be Brandon Roy, an absolute baller for the Portland Trailblazers who was hobbled by injuries and forced to retire very young. Another would be Derrick Rose, who has been able to "return" to basketball, but he's so far from what he once was as a basketball player. Those 2 guys were among the best in the world at what they did in sports, and their careers were effectively ended by injuries while they were still young.

Who else? Victor Cruz? David Wilson I suppose, but neck injuries are a different animal entirely, not unlike concussions.

I'm not saying I'm not concerned - I am. This certainly isn't a good thing. But I don't think it's a total game-changer for his career or the Colts organization either.

More than everything I just said above, the biggest reassurance to Luck dynasty owners should be the (presumed) hire of McDaniels. There is no WAY he would pick the Colts for his rebound job unless he had vetted the heck out of Luck's future.
@Lukkynumber13 For my own sake, I hope that you are correct with this assessment. However, I dont think the McDaniels hire necessarily means Luck is destined to return. McDaniels may have opted for Hue Jackson style stability where (esp if Luck is done) he gets to build his own team, and has literally no expectations for a significant amount of time. Who knows his real motivation
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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby johninvandergrift » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:37 pm

"Normal" recovery for today's elite athlete doesn't go through Europe. I'd love to know what drove him there. Was it something that Dr. James Andrews said?

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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby Goddard » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:02 am

lukkynumber13 wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:51 pm I'll just say this: For Luck to not return to form, we would have to witness a total anomaly of modern sports science. That a QB in the absolute prime of his athletic life could be done in by shoulder surgeries, in 2017/18, it's just not likely.

How many studs in the PRIMES of their careers have had career-enders in the last decade? The best examples I can think of would be Brandon Roy, an absolute baller for the Portland Trailblazers who was hobbled by injuries and forced to retire very young. Another would be Derrick Rose, who has been able to "return" to basketball, but he's so far from what he once was as a basketball player. Those 2 guys were among the best in the world at what they did in sports, and their careers were effectively ended by injuries while they were still young.

Who else? Victor Cruz? David Wilson I suppose, but neck injuries are a different animal entirely, not unlike concussions.

I'm not saying I'm not concerned - I am. This certainly isn't a good thing. But I don't think it's a total game-changer for his career or the Colts organization either.

More than everything I just said above, the biggest reassurance to Luck dynasty owners should be the (presumed) hire of McDaniels. There is no WAY he would pick the Colts for his rebound job unless he had vetted the heck out of Luck's future.
Man, Roy was such a baller...why'd you have to bring him up lol.

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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby lukkynumber13 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:08 pm

Ugh Goddard I feel you. He was one of my favorite players - him and KG.

Roy looked like Dwyane Wade except he could shoot 3's
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
/
TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
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TEAM C - 14T, SF (Joined in 22)
GENO
HENRY/A JONES, Gus E
HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
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TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
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KITTLE, Goedert
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TEAM E - 14T, SF, 2TE (Started in 22)
MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
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TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby Ghosted » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:20 pm

lukkynumber13 wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:51 pm I'll just say this: For Luck to not return to form, we would have to witness a total anomaly of modern sports science. That a QB in the absolute prime of his athletic life could be done in by shoulder surgeries, in 2017/18, it's just not likely.

How many studs in the PRIMES of their careers have had career-enders in the last decade? The best examples I can think of would be Brandon Roy, an absolute baller for the Portland Trailblazers who was hobbled by injuries and forced to retire very young. Another would be Derrick Rose, who has been able to "return" to basketball, but he's so far from what he once was as a basketball player. Those 2 guys were among the best in the world at what they did in sports, and their careers were effectively ended by injuries while they were still young.

Who else? Victor Cruz? David Wilson I suppose, but neck injuries are a different animal entirely, not unlike concussions.

I'm not saying I'm not concerned - I am. This certainly isn't a good thing. But I don't think it's a total game-changer for his career or the Colts organization either.

More than everything I just said above, the biggest reassurance to Luck dynasty owners should be the (presumed) hire of McDaniels. There is no WAY he would pick the Colts for his rebound job unless he had vetted the heck out of Luck's future.
Chad Pennington?

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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby joebigs » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:54 pm

Pennington played after the surgery. The estimated time for recovery from this surgery is 12 months. Luck hit 12 months in December.

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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby lukkynumber13 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:52 pm

Ghosted wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:20 pm
lukkynumber13 wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:51 pm I'll just say this: For Luck to not return to form, we would have to witness a total anomaly of modern sports science. That a QB in the absolute prime of his athletic life could be done in by shoulder surgeries, in 2017/18, it's just not likely.

How many studs in the PRIMES of their careers have had career-enders in the last decade? The best examples I can think of would be Brandon Roy, an absolute baller for the Portland Trailblazers who was hobbled by injuries and forced to retire very young. Another would be Derrick Rose, who has been able to "return" to basketball, but he's so far from what he once was as a basketball player. Those 2 guys were among the best in the world at what they did in sports, and their careers were effectively ended by injuries while they were still young.

Who else? Victor Cruz? David Wilson I suppose, but neck injuries are a different animal entirely, not unlike concussions.

I'm not saying I'm not concerned - I am. This certainly isn't a good thing. But I don't think it's a total game-changer for his career or the Colts organization either.

More than everything I just said above, the biggest reassurance to Luck dynasty owners should be the (presumed) hire of McDaniels. There is no WAY he would pick the Colts for his rebound job unless he had vetted the heck out of Luck's future.
Chad Pennington?
That's definitely a good comparison in terms of another NFL quarterback who had a career-altering injury. His big one was in 2002 tho, right?
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
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TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby ArrylT » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:59 pm

From Wikipedia:

After their 2002 performance, Pennington and the Jets were given lofty expectations entering the 2003 pre-season; however, in the fourth pre-season game against the New York Giants, Pennington endured a fracture-dislocation on his left (non-throwing) hand after suffering a hit from linebacker Brandon Short. The injury forced him to miss the first six games of the season. Due to the severity of the injury, and a rushed rehab process, Pennington's wrist would never be the same, and his once outstanding play-fake became thoroughly ordinary. Without their starting QB, the Jets began the season 1-4. Despite his return, the Jets only won five more games to finish 6-10.

Shoulder injury was 2005 it seems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Pennington
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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby lukkynumber13 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:01 pm

ArrylT wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:59 pm From Wikipedia:

After their 2002 performance, Pennington and the Jets were given lofty expectations entering the 2003 pre-season; however, in the fourth pre-season game against the New York Giants, Pennington endured a fracture-dislocation on his left (non-throwing) hand after suffering a hit from linebacker Brandon Short. The injury forced him to miss the first six games of the season. Due to the severity of the injury, and a rushed rehab process, Pennington's wrist would never be the same, and his once outstanding play-fake became thoroughly ordinary. Without their starting QB, the Jets began the season 1-4. Despite his return, the Jets only won five more games to finish 6-10.

Shoulder injury was 2005 it seems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Pennington
The wrist in 02 was the more damning one though, correct?
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
/
TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
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GENO
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HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
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/
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MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
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TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby ArrylT » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:11 pm

lukkynumber13 wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:01 pm
ArrylT wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:59 pm From Wikipedia:

After their 2002 performance, Pennington and the Jets were given lofty expectations entering the 2003 pre-season; however, in the fourth pre-season game against the New York Giants, Pennington endured a fracture-dislocation on his left (non-throwing) hand after suffering a hit from linebacker Brandon Short. The injury forced him to miss the first six games of the season. Due to the severity of the injury, and a rushed rehab process, Pennington's wrist would never be the same, and his once outstanding play-fake became thoroughly ordinary. Without their starting QB, the Jets began the season 1-4. Despite his return, the Jets only won five more games to finish 6-10.

Shoulder injury was 2005 it seems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Pennington
The wrist in 02 was the more damning one though, correct?
Dont think so.

Looking deeper I think the Luck comparison is kind of interesting - because it seems like Pennington originally injured his rotator cuff in 2004 and then it was revealed in 2005 that he had torn it for real. It seems he just kept getting injury after injury after that - so maybe 10 years from now we'll be looking at Luck the same way (since he's had several non critical injuries but they build up as well). Hard to say though - just interesting to note.
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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:03 am

Didn't Pennington always have a noodle arm and he put up some of his best seasons after 2005. Idk how much that relates to Luck. I'm kind of with Lukky on this in that if Luck doesn't come back it's quite the anomaly. I think this whole mess started because they tried to rush him back too soon and not because his injury/surgery was career ending. We've seen Peyton Manning come back in his mid-late 30s from a seemingly worse situation.

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Re: Andrew Luck

Postby Ghosted » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:01 am

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:03 am Didn't Pennington always have a noodle arm and he put up some of his best seasons after 2005. Idk how much that relates to Luck. I'm kind of with Lukky on this in that if Luck doesn't come back it's quite the anomaly. I think this whole mess started because they tried to rush him back too soon and not because his injury/surgery was career ending. We've seen Peyton Manning come back in his mid-late 30s from a seemingly worse situation.
I don't think so, man. He only had one season of AY/A+ over 100 post 2004. It's pretty obvious that the injury played a role in his decline; there are correlations all over the place. Even his coaches said they lost a lot of the playbook because he couldn't drive the ball toward the boundaries after that. I will agree that he was never known for having a strong arm. I guess how it more appropriately relates to Luck for fantasy purposes is if it pulls him from the uber-elite class, not if it is a career-ender.

I'm not nearly educated enough to guess how medical science has evolved since then, but it is something to consider I suppose. Shoulders derail pitcher's careers all of the time, even in this day of modern sports medicine, so it's certainly possible that Luck could be in more trouble than we think (I realize that the positions pose significantly different demands on the arm/shoulder, so not apples-to-apples).

I only threw Pennington's name as something to consider; I believe Luck will return to form (at least enough to be highly effective).


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