Treadwell v. Doctson

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Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby bigbuck22 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:41 am

I have seen a lot of talk about these two guys in the last two months. Much of the talk is very down on Tread while it is optimistic on Doctson. In reality, they are both in very similar situations. Neither played much in his rookie season, they both battled injuries, they both arguably have 2 or 3 guys ahead of them for a share of targets. The notable differences that come to mind are Treadwell being younger by a couple of years and Doctson playing with a better QB.

Why does the dynasty community still view Doctson optimistically with a value in the early- mid 1st, but Treadwell is labeled a bust with a value closer to round 2?
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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby kasermap » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:15 am

bigbuck22 wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:41 am I have seen a lot of talk about these two guys in the last two months. Much of the talk is very down on Tread while it is optimistic on Doctson. In reality, they are both in very similar situations. Neither played much in his rookie season, they both battled injuries, they both arguably have 2 or 3 guys ahead of them for a share of targets. The notable differences that come to mind are Treadwell being younger by a couple of years and Doctson playing with a better QB.

Why does the dynasty community still view Doctson optimistically with a value in the early- mid 1st, but Treadwell is labeled a bust with a value closer to round 2?
I'm curious to this as well, Doctson is getting the same love that Kevin White is getting and I just don't see it.

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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby bigbuck22 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:25 am

kasermap wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:15 am
bigbuck22 wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:41 am I have seen a lot of talk about these two guys in the last two months. Much of the talk is very down on Tread while it is optimistic on Doctson. In reality, they are both in very similar situations. Neither played much in his rookie season, they both battled injuries, they both arguably have 2 or 3 guys ahead of them for a share of targets. The notable differences that come to mind are Treadwell being younger by a couple of years and Doctson playing with a better QB.

Why does the dynasty community still view Doctson optimistically with a value in the early- mid 1st, but Treadwell is labeled a bust with a value closer to round 2?
I'm curious to this as well, Doctson is getting the same love that Kevin White is getting and I just don't see it.
YES! Kevin White was also a name that came to mind. I just went with Doctson/Tread because they are both 2nd year players now. I'm not sure I understand why. I'm sure some view Washington as a better situation. However, Doctson will compete with Reed, Crowder, Pryor for targets while Treadwell will have Diggs, Thielen, Rudolph to compete with. Seems like less competition in Minnesota and I doubt they intend to be as much of a run-first team with Peterson out the door. I just feel like Doctson/Tread should be on the same level.
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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby Kramer » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:41 am

I think Doctson is perceived to be worth more than Doctson for a couple of reasons:

1. Better QB situation (although Cousins may bolt after this year)
2. Doctson missed most of the rookie season due to injury while Treadwell missed it due to his inability to beat out people on the depth chart (although we've now found out that Treadwell was battling an injury that may have affected him)
3. People are impatient in general
4. Doctson has a clearer path to be the team's #1 whereas Diggs isn't going anywhere.

I hold both these players and value Doctson slightly ahead of Treadwell, but it's not a huge difference. I'm concerned with how both their rookie years went, but am hoping that once they are able to get on the field, they can show why teams drafted them in the 1st round last year.
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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby kasermap » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:10 pm

Treadwell also had a nagging ankle injury his first season. The difference between a 21 year old and 23 year old is also quite big. Kevin White was also an older rookie, he's about to be 25. While Diggs may be the number 1 in Minny, I'm not sure I view him as a true dominant number 1 which is what all 3 of these guys were drafted to be. He was drafted to be a role player which I feel like he is a great number 2 that can fill in as a 1 when needed.

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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby bigbuck22 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:16 pm

I would assume most if not all owners would draft CDavis and MWilliams ahead of Doctson or Treadwell, but as far as WRs go, would they draft Ross ahead of Doctson/Treadwell? I think you could easily make a case for JD/LT ahead of Ross. In that case, why shouldn't both guys be valued in the mid-1st (where Ross will likely land)?
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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby Kramer » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:32 pm

bigbuck22 wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:16 pm I would assume most if not all owners would draft CDavis and MWilliams ahead of Doctson or Treadwell, but as far as WRs go, would they draft Ross ahead of Doctson/Treadwell? I think you could easily make a case for JD/LT ahead of Ross. In that case, why shouldn't both guys be valued in the mid-1st (where Ross will likely land)?
This is exactly where I value both of them at (1.05 this year). I wouldn't sell for Ross.
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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby ELSOUZA » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:50 am

If I see to buy one player of the two... It'd be Doctson ... but this is more a reflection of treadwell than Doctson. The fact that he couldn't get on the field to compete was worrying .. but who knows maybe he turns it around

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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:47 am

Doctson was a really really good prospect. Better than Treadwell and better than White imo. So that's the difference for me.

Kevin White had bust written all over him when he was coming out for several reasons. Limited route runner, got roughly half his production from screen passes and the like, late breakout age, only 1 year of high level college production, etc. Whether he will actually continue to be a bust or not who knows, the bears did seem hellbent on getting him the ball last season when he was on the field no matter how inefficient he is.

Treadwell seemed like a fine (albeit severely overrated) prospect coming out, I liked his game for the most part. But his lack of athleticism did show up on tape. And for the foreseeable future he is pinned behind Diggs and Thielen. Sure he's young, but age does not equate to talent.

Back to Doctson, sure his age and the injury hurts... no doubt about that. But bottom line is he's still young and still really talented. So that's why people are still optimistic that he will do big things on the NFL level before long.

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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby Ryantacular » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:24 am

I drafted Doctson over Treadwell, and believe hes the better reciever/talent. Also on more pass friendly team, and also a better NFL draft pedigree than Treadwell.

Doctson > Treadwell

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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby 23B_Mills » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:32 am

I believed Josh Doctson would be better during last year's pre-draft season, and nothing has happened to change that thought yet.
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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby DBass218 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:52 am

As the owner of both, I tend to think one of them will step forward this year but think it's likelier that it is Doctson.
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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby Monkey » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:40 pm

The perception, and snap counts, show Doctson getting involved and targeted 7 times in the first 2 weeks before being shut down with injury, and they show Treadwell with varying snap counts over 9 games, getting targeted 3 times in that time.

The original narrative was that Minnesota likes to bring their rookies along slowly, then it was the ankle injury. Maybe both are true? It is speculation at this point how much Minnesota was hiding the injury.

Bottom line, I'm not selling either of these prospects anywhere, but I'd buy Doctson at a discount and I am holding on Treadwell until I can see a little more. If you think Treadwell is worth more than the consensus price, seems like a buy opportunity.

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Re: Treadwell v. Doctson

Postby crisdecamposmd » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:06 am

kasermap wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:15 am
bigbuck22 wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:41 am I have seen a lot of talk about these two guys in the last two months. Much of the talk is very down on Tread while it is optimistic on Doctson. In reality, they are both in very similar situations. Neither played much in his rookie season, they both battled injuries, they both arguably have 2 or 3 guys ahead of them for a share of targets. The notable differences that come to mind are Treadwell being younger by a couple of years and Doctson playing with a better QB.

Why does the dynasty community still view Doctson optimistically with a value in the early- mid 1st, but Treadwell is labeled a bust with a value closer to round 2?
I'm curious to this as well, Doctson is getting the same love that Kevin White is getting and I just don't see it.

Kevin White has been in the league two years. -- Doctson has been in one year.
KW is ranked very low in on-field performance. -- Doctson has done very well while on the field. (Both limited sample size)
KW has been bypassed by Cam Meredith and there's no reason to expect that to change -- Doctson really hasn't been passed by anybody... TP and BQ were brought in but they're both on 1 year deals and with limited production over course of career

My biggest problems with KW are mainly that he's had two years and has done poorly while on the field, and at the end of the day Cam Meredith ran the 40 0.1s slower than KW... but he's a better route runner and much more reliable, relatively same age, and going into the year as the #1, and will be in Chi as long as KW. I own C. Mer in my league (and Doctson, and Quick). I did try to get TP but it's not happening at this point. Doctson is not going into the year with anybody ahead of him except himself. If he's healthy he will start opposite TP. It will be a shock if their offense does not move, so Doctson will do well.


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