Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby DallasN1213 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:21 pm

Gio, CP, Hopkins

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby BuckeyeNation » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:24 pm

I like the Keenan Allen comparison. He was a early favorite to be the 1.01 this past season, and ended up going as low as the mid 2nd round come draft season. I felt very strongly that Allen was a bargain, but unfortunately all my dynasty leagues were startups last year and I traded away all my rookie picks to come out of the startup draft stronger. So I couldn't get a hold of him.

I don't think there's any circumstance that will have Watkins dropping like Allen did. Besides the "bad" combine for Allen, there were the injury concerns with him too. Plus last year was perceived as being weak at the top, and it was thought that nobody really stood out from one another. This year's rookie class has been hyped since last year. Because of that there was plenty of value in rookie picks last year that probably won't be there this year. Watkins is being hyped as the being locked at 1.01 in a class that's perceived to be stronger than last year. I'd say best case scenario for a hopeful Watkins owner is that he drops to 1.03/1.04.
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby JFever » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:24 pm

DallasN1213 wrote:Gio, CP, Hopkins
I respect your opinion and am ok agreeing to disagree here. I just can't help but think there is a whole bunch of knowing what you know now compared to knowing what you knew then while looking at this list of guys you say you'd have taken over S.Watkins - had he hypothetically come out last year.

Gio - even last year was not the consensus top rb of his class. Many were quite high on Lacy,Bell, and Ball as well as J.Franklin, C.Michael and M.Lattamore. There were plenty of questions around Gio, His role, his size, his blocking, fumbling issues, and even a knee injury history. CP - although extremely talented with good / great protypical wr size and frame - was and still is considered to be very raw not to mention his far less than stellar landing spot / qb situation at the time, and Hopkins - viewed by many to be the best all around wr of his class and a player that had less risk and a higher floor than most of his peers was on the same Clemson team as Watkins. And - on that Clemson team, Watkins - not Hopkins was the bigger playmaker. So - with all due respect - I highly doubt you really would have taken those 3 prospects a head of Watkins - had he hypothetically come out in last years draft. To each their own though - If those 3 (Gio,CP,and Hopkins) were your guys from the get go for whatever reason - that is your right. For me though - Watkins would have been at or near the top of my rookie rankings from the 2013 class.

Looking back at the 2012 draft with RGIII, Luck, Martin, Blackmon, Wilson, TRich - I do think that if Watkins were in that draft - he'd likely have been a top 3 - maybe 2. I kind of forgot how TRich was hyped at the time so I regress on this one a bit. TRich would have still been the #1 pick but I think arguments could be made for Watkins to have gone #2 in that draft class as long as your league isn't a 2 qb league. And even if you don't think that is possible He'd still have been in the top 4-5 in a very top heavy draft class.

I guess I see no evidence that any other player should be taken ahead of Watkins at this point. I've been looking very hard at several players as I own the 1.01 in one league via trade. Currently - I have no doubt whatsoever that I'll be taking Watkins at 1.01, and I'm thrilled to have that opportunity. I see him as a very special talent and in a tier of his own right now. I think it quite likely that he'll be a fantasy stud and a very likely wr1. I will not make the mistakes I've made in the past and will not let situation cloud my judgement. Talent over situation from here on out for me.
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby KMA » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:06 am

Is Hopkins a better talent than Watkins?
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby QuintorrisLopezJones » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:58 am

georg013 wrote:Is Hopkins a better talent than Watkins?
No. And I really dont think it's close. I've felt that way for a few years now so this isnt just recency bias towards Sammy.
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WR: Julio Jones, AJ Green, Alshon Jeffery, Sammy Watkins, Michael Crabtree, DeVante Parker
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby JFever » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:13 am

georg013 wrote:Is Hopkins a better talent than Watkins?
No. They are very close to the same size. Both coming in at 6-1, 215 lbs

Sammy Watkins is the consensus top wide receiver in this class. Highly touted coming out high school, he did not disappoint when he starred for the Clemson Tigers. He is 6-foot-1, 215 pounds but plays like he's much bigger. This year, he racked up 101 catches for 1464 yards and 12 TDs.

In terms of comparing how I'd grade Watkins to prior high round wide receivers, I'd grade him below A.J. Green and Calvin Johnson, coming in at the Julio Jones and Dez Bryant level. Clearly ahead of guys like Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd, and Tavon Austin.

Pros
- Gigantic catch radius.
- Acceleration off the charts.
- Physical at the point of the catch.
- Great screen receiver capable of getting YAC.
- Hands catcher who minimizes drops.
- Can break tackles and fight through press coverage consistently.
Cons
- Inexperienced route runner/was not asked to run many routes.
- Despite fantastic acceleration, top end speed is not the best.

I got this from a simple google search and a couple clicks. Just trying to be informative to whomever reads this and has questions about Hopkins vs Watkins.

In my opinion Watkins is a better prospect than Hopkins in nearly every aspect of this game. Watkins set / broke the Clemson all time receptions and yards total and aside from that he seems to have a great all around game (blocking, etc). They are close in age so that isn't an issue. They are also without off the field concerns as both seem like upstanding young men with good football IQ. I think Hopkins is a better route runner than Watkins, but other than that - I give a slight to moderate edge to Watkins on his Hands, leaping, acceleration, strength, and overall playmaking ability.

No doubt that Watkins is the 1.01 in my mind.
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby kmbryant09 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:04 pm

Read this:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=61347

Hope it helps.
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WR: J. Jones, M. Thomas, D. Thomas, A. Jeffrey, S. Watkins, P. Garcon, M. Lee, L.Treadwell, T. Ginn Jr., S. Coates, K. Wright
TE: T. Kelce, J. Doyle, L. Green, V. McDonald

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby joeasaurus » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:12 pm

I saw the comparison to Tavon Austin, but not convinced that's a good thing. Who would you compare him to most? Like are we talk Gordon, Megatron level or Julio Green level or below?
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby Jimmy Jones » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:18 pm

JFever wrote:
georg013 wrote:Is Hopkins a better talent than Watkins?
No. They are very close to the same size. Both coming in at 6-1, 215 lbs

Sammy Watkins is the consensus top wide receiver in this class. Highly touted coming out high school, he did not disappoint when he starred for the Clemson Tigers. He is 6-foot-1, 215 pounds but plays like he's much bigger. This year, he racked up 101 catches for 1464 yards and 12 TDs.

In terms of comparing how I'd grade Watkins to prior high round wide receivers, I'd grade him below A.J. Green and Calvin Johnson, coming in at the Julio Jones and Dez Bryant level. Clearly ahead of guys like Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd, and Tavon Austin.

Pros
- Gigantic catch radius.
- Acceleration off the charts.
- Physical at the point of the catch.
- Great screen receiver capable of getting YAC.
- Hands catcher who minimizes drops.
- Can break tackles and fight through press coverage consistently.
Cons
- Inexperienced route runner/was not asked to run many routes.
- Despite fantastic acceleration, top end speed is not the best.

I got this from a simple google search and a couple clicks. Just trying to be informative to whomever reads this and has questions about Hopkins vs Watkins.

In my opinion Watkins is a better prospect than Hopkins in nearly every aspect of this game. Watkins set / broke the Clemson all time receptions and yards total and aside from that he seems to have a great all around game (blocking, etc). They are close in age so that isn't an issue. They are also without off the field concerns as both seem like upstanding young men with good football IQ. I think Hopkins is a better route runner than Watkins, but other than that - I give a slight to moderate edge to Watkins on his Hands, leaping, acceleration, strength, and overall playmaking ability.

No doubt that Watkins is the 1.01 in my mind.
Wow, I would love to believe everything you said but unfortunately, I don't agree with some of it. I think he will be a great receiver but I don't think he has the ceiling of guys like Julio and Demaryius. My 2 concerns are his height, and the fact that less than 30% of his catches were beyond the 5 yard line. The second can be easily learned but all the receivers in the Elite tier measure in around 6"3. Also, I doubt he measures on at the combine at 6"1 215 as you suggested. people are saying more like 6"0 200. He's looking more like a Percy/Cobb/Cruz type of guy, which is still special, but not Julio/Dez material. That's just my opinion and I hope you are the correct one because I very well may be drafting this guy.
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QB's: ARod, Rivers, Sanchez, Manziel, Mallett, Mettenberger
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby Jimmy Jones » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:29 pm

Read the part about Sammy on here as well:

http://ffoasis.com/content/2014/01/16/d ... graduates/
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QB's: ARod, Rivers, Sanchez, Manziel, Mallett, Mettenberger
RB's: Charles, Lacy, Ellington, Oliver, Davis, Starks, CMike
WR's: Julio, Maclin, Sanders, Watkins, Crabtree, Patterson, Quick
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby flexcapacitor » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:49 pm

Jimmy Jones wrote:Read the part about Sammy on here as well:

http://ffoasis.com/content/2014/01/16/d ... graduates/
This is an excellent write up on this years draft class. I agreed with a lot of what he said about almost everyone at this stage of being able to evaluate players. Watkins perceived value could be higher then his actual value right now but I wouldn't say that he is a sell. If his perceived value is high right now then just wait a few months when it goes through the roof. IMO his talent is so much higher then anyone in the draft class that the cut off is the 1.01 then everyone else. It's just hard to say right now if he is in the Juio, DT or Dez range as far as talent.

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby DallasN1213 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:54 pm

JFever wrote:
DallasN1213 wrote:Gio, CP, Hopkins
I respect your opinion and am ok agreeing to disagree here. I just can't help but think there is a whole bunch of knowing what you know now compared to knowing what you knew then while looking at this list of guys you say you'd have taken over S.Watkins - had he hypothetically come out last year.

Gio - even last year was not the consensus top rb of his class. Many were quite high on Lacy,Bell, and Ball as well as J.Franklin, C.Michael and M.Lattamore. There were plenty of questions around Gio, His role, his size, his blocking, fumbling issues, and even a knee injury history. CP - although extremely talented with good / great protypical wr size and frame - was and still is considered to be very raw not to mention his far less than stellar landing spot / qb situation at the time, and Hopkins - viewed by many to be the best all around wr of his class and a player that had less risk and a higher floor than most of his peers was on the same Clemson team as Watkins. And - on that Clemson team, Watkins - not Hopkins was the bigger playmaker. So - with all due respect - I highly doubt you really would have taken those 3 prospects a head of Watkins - had he hypothetically come out in last years draft. To each their own though - If those 3 (Gio,CP,and Hopkins) were your guys from the get go for whatever reason - that is your right. For me though - Watkins would have been at or near the top of my rookie rankings from the 2013 class.

Looking back at the 2012 draft with RGIII, Luck, Martin, Blackmon, Wilson, TRich - I do think that if Watkins were in that draft - he'd likely have been a top 3 - maybe 2. I kind of forgot how TRich was hyped at the time so I regress on this one a bit. TRich would have still been the #1 pick but I think arguments could be made for Watkins to have gone #2 in that draft class as long as your league isn't a 2 qb league. And even if you don't think that is possible He'd still have been in the top 4-5 in a very top heavy draft class.

I guess I see no evidence that any other player should be taken ahead of Watkins at this point. I've been looking very hard at several players as I own the 1.01 in one league via trade. Currently - I have no doubt whatsoever that I'll be taking Watkins at 1.01, and I'm thrilled to have that opportunity. I see him as a very special talent and in a tier of his own right now. I think it quite likely that he'll be a fantasy stud and a very likely wr1. I will not make the mistakes I've made in the past and will not let situation cloud my judgement. Talent over situation from here on out for me.
Ditto. I am basing that on what I thought about those players last year versus what I think about Watkins now. I had Gio and Hopkins as my 1 and 2. The board loved CP last year as the #1.

Also, if I compare them against Watkins 2012 performance, he's even lower.

I let the Tich omission go but he was full hype in 2012. I still think Blwckmon, Luck, and Martin would have slotted higher. Luck went early in some standard leagues with his once in a generation hype.

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby Jimmy Jones » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:42 pm

Is there anyone in this site that think Mike Evans will be a better fantasy WR than Sammy?
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QB's: ARod, Rivers, Sanchez, Manziel, Mallett, Mettenberger
RB's: Charles, Lacy, Ellington, Oliver, Davis, Starks, CMike
WR's: Julio, Maclin, Sanders, Watkins, Crabtree, Patterson, Quick
TE's: Graham, Kelce, ASJ

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby Nightmares » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:02 pm

Watkins is fast, has great hands and fights for every ball. I take him all day and every day. I think he is comparable to Roddy White, and that is [pretty damn good.

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby flexcapacitor » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:11 pm

Nightmares wrote:Watkins is fast, has great hands and fights for every ball. I take him all day and every day. I think he is comparable to Roddy White, and that is [pretty damn good.
Last year Hopkins was often times compared to Roddy White. A good player with a high floor but a limited ceiling. Watkins is more talented then Hopkins in a lot of areas. I would compare Watkins to a small version of Julio or DT……or a big version of Percy Harvin.


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