Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby project mayhem » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:34 pm

The best comparison I have heard was "a stronger, more polished Cordarelle Patterson".

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby KingsKing » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:21 pm

William Wallace wrote:The best comparison I have heard was "a stronger, more polished Cordarelle Patterson".
In a start up draft where are you guys comfortable taking him? Ahead of guys like Floyd,Patterson,Blackmon,Cruz?

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby aaroneous » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:23 pm

Jimmy Jones wrote:Is there anyone in this site that think Mike Evans will be a better fantasy WR than Sammy?
No, but I also am not high on Mike Evans at all.
Team 1 -12 team ppr league - 23 man roster/4 man TS - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 RB/WR/TE, 1 TE

QB Rivers, Kaepernick
RB Foster, Peterson, Spiller, Khiry Robinson, Riddick,
WR Demayrius, James Jones, Crabtree, Dobson, Boyce, Holmes, Malcolm Floyd, Goodwin
TE Cameron, Pitta, Bostick, Kelce, Griffin

2014: 2.01, 2.03, 2.04, 2.09, 2.10; 3.01, 3.02, 3.04, 3.05, 3.09

Team 2 - 12 team ppr - 21 man roster/4 man TS - 1QB 2-4RB 2-4WR 1-3TE 1 DST 1 K
QB - Romo, Vick
RB - Lamar, Greene, Woodhead, Pierre Thomas, Daniel Thomas, Helu
WR - Gordon, Jeffery, Floyd, Cruz, Bailey, Blackmon, Britt, Holmes, Patton, Steve Smith
TE - Green, Witten, Robinson
2014: 1.08, 2.05, 3.08, 4.05

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby aaroneous » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:23 pm

KingsKing wrote:
William Wallace wrote:The best comparison I have heard was "a stronger, more polished Cordarelle Patterson".
In a start up draft where are you guys comfortable taking him? Ahead of guys like Floyd,Patterson,Blackmon,Cruz?
Probably round 4 is where I would want to take him, but someone else will take him round 2-3.
Team 1 -12 team ppr league - 23 man roster/4 man TS - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 RB/WR/TE, 1 TE

QB Rivers, Kaepernick
RB Foster, Peterson, Spiller, Khiry Robinson, Riddick,
WR Demayrius, James Jones, Crabtree, Dobson, Boyce, Holmes, Malcolm Floyd, Goodwin
TE Cameron, Pitta, Bostick, Kelce, Griffin

2014: 2.01, 2.03, 2.04, 2.09, 2.10; 3.01, 3.02, 3.04, 3.05, 3.09

Team 2 - 12 team ppr - 21 man roster/4 man TS - 1QB 2-4RB 2-4WR 1-3TE 1 DST 1 K
QB - Romo, Vick
RB - Lamar, Greene, Woodhead, Pierre Thomas, Daniel Thomas, Helu
WR - Gordon, Jeffery, Floyd, Cruz, Bailey, Blackmon, Britt, Holmes, Patton, Steve Smith
TE - Green, Witten, Robinson
2014: 1.08, 2.05, 3.08, 4.05

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby aaroneous » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:25 pm

William Wallace wrote:The best comparison I have heard was "a stronger, more polished Cordarelle Patterson".
And shorter and lighter...

But who is Cordarrelle Patterson like? I don't think we've really seen enough of him to compare another rookie to him.
Team 1 -12 team ppr league - 23 man roster/4 man TS - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 RB/WR/TE, 1 TE

QB Rivers, Kaepernick
RB Foster, Peterson, Spiller, Khiry Robinson, Riddick,
WR Demayrius, James Jones, Crabtree, Dobson, Boyce, Holmes, Malcolm Floyd, Goodwin
TE Cameron, Pitta, Bostick, Kelce, Griffin

2014: 2.01, 2.03, 2.04, 2.09, 2.10; 3.01, 3.02, 3.04, 3.05, 3.09

Team 2 - 12 team ppr - 21 man roster/4 man TS - 1QB 2-4RB 2-4WR 1-3TE 1 DST 1 K
QB - Romo, Vick
RB - Lamar, Greene, Woodhead, Pierre Thomas, Daniel Thomas, Helu
WR - Gordon, Jeffery, Floyd, Cruz, Bailey, Blackmon, Britt, Holmes, Patton, Steve Smith
TE - Green, Witten, Robinson
2014: 1.08, 2.05, 3.08, 4.05

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby Jfever » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:22 pm

Thinking out loud here, and admittedly stiring the pot a little - but just how big does a wr have to be to be or to not be a wr1? This one has had me fairly complexed while reading through threads here for the past few years. I agree there are many subjective and objective qualities that have to be considered here. I think many dismiss that and rely to much on height / weight / speed alone.

Do people know or are they possibly too young? Jerry Rice (imo) the greatest wr to ever play the game - was 6'1.5 and 200 lbs and he really wasn't fast or very strong at all. So please - just stop with the he is too small crap. It is such bs. honestly.

Before I get crucified by those that remember Jerry's playing time; no - I'm not saying Watkins will have a J.Rice career. That'd be stupid. What I am saying however is that his height and size, or the slight lack there of, in some eyes - isn't something that is so far away from the mean that would make me think that it is something that would prevent him from a successful career. Why you ask? Easy. Because he is SO talented in every other meaningful skill set category that leads to success in the position that he plays. If Watkins was 6'3 maybe even 6'2 instead of 6'1 many would be saying he is the next Calvin. Rather - people are instead saying he is in the next tier or so down. In any and all cases like this - to me it screams 1.01. Watkins will be a difference maker in the NFL.
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby project mayhem » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:32 pm

KingsKing wrote:
William Wallace wrote:The best comparison I have heard was "a stronger, more polished Cordarelle Patterson".
In a start up draft where are you guys comfortable taking him? Ahead of guys like Floyd,Patterson,Blackmon,Cruz?
Ahead of Blackmon/Cruz very, very, easily. Right in the range of Floyd/Patterson. Mid-third round based on the ADP I have seen.

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby voiceofunreason » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:49 am

swinderman wrote:
William Wallace wrote:The best comparison I have heard was "a stronger, more polished Cordarelle Patterson".
And shorter and lighter...

But who is Cordarrelle Patterson like? I don't think we've really seen enough of him to compare another rookie to him.
Patterson is Demaryius Thomas to me.

I don't see Watkins being stronger than Patterson at all. I've heard a bigger Percy Harvin which makes some sense.

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby Jimmy Jones » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:44 am

William Wallace wrote:
KingsKing wrote:
William Wallace wrote:The best comparison I have heard was "a stronger, more polished Cordarelle Patterson".
In a start up draft where are you guys comfortable taking him? Ahead of guys like Floyd,Patterson,Blackmon,Cruz?
Ahead of Blackmon/Cruz very, very, easily. Right in the range of Floyd/Patterson. Mid-third round based on the ADP I have seen.
You rank Floyd and Patterson ahead of Cruz and Blackmon??
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby Sliup » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:05 am

Jimmy Jones wrote:Is there anyone in this site that think Mike Evans will be a better fantasy WR than Sammy?
I do. Evans reminds me of Jeffrey. He might not be the fastest but he wins at the catch point.

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby project mayhem » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:54 am

"You rank Floyd and Patterson ahead of Cruz and Blackmon??"

Yes. If Blackmon had his head on right (he doesn't) and didn't have two strikes already it would be closer.

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby aaroneous » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:58 am

JFever wrote:Thinking out loud here, and admittedly stiring the pot a little - but just how big does a wr have to be to be or to not be a wr1? This one has had me fairly complexed while reading through threads here for the past few years. I agree there are many subjective and objective qualities that have to be considered here. I think many dismiss that and rely to much on height / weight / speed alone.

Do people know or are they possibly too young? Jerry Rice (imo) the greatest wr to ever play the game - was 6'1.5 and 200 lbs and he really wasn't fast or very strong at all. So please - just stop with the he is too small crap. It is such bs. honestly.

Before I get crucified by those that remember Jerry's playing time; no - I'm not saying Watkins will have a J.Rice career. That'd be stupid. What I am saying however is that his height and size, or the slight lack there of, in some eyes - isn't something that is so far away from the mean that would make me think that it is something that would prevent him from a successful career. Why you ask? Easy. Because he is SO talented in every other meaningful skill set category that leads to success in the position that he plays. If Watkins was 6'3 maybe even 6'2 instead of 6'1 many would be saying he is the next Calvin. Rather - people are instead saying he is in the next tier or so down. In any and all cases like this - to me it screams 1.01. Watkins will be a difference maker in the NFL.
As someone who is worried about his size, there are a few things I felt the need to point out. Rice was still bigger than Watkins is. Rice, as we all know, was an exemplary prospect through and through his entire career (including college). Not so much for Watkins. Also, Rice played in a different era of football than these days. His route running was so extraordinary and efficient he did not need to be tall and strong. When people talk about Watkins' strength and his ability to high point the ball, I think there is every reason to show some concern that he won't have dominance in those areas at the NFL. Rice is more of an exception than the general rule to live by.

Also, there's a huuuuuuuge difference between saying that Watkins' height and size is preventing him from being a top prospect in the mold of Julio, Dez, AJ, Calvin, etc. and saying that he's "too small" in general. I think he's going to be successful and I think he will be a difference maker. I just think he will not be a difference maker to the same degree that they do. If people are saying that Watkins being 6'0''-6'1'' prevents him from having a successful career, you're right, that's stupid. It just seems like a number of comments are being taken out of context.
Team 1 -12 team ppr league - 23 man roster/4 man TS - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 RB/WR/TE, 1 TE

QB Rivers, Kaepernick
RB Foster, Peterson, Spiller, Khiry Robinson, Riddick,
WR Demayrius, James Jones, Crabtree, Dobson, Boyce, Holmes, Malcolm Floyd, Goodwin
TE Cameron, Pitta, Bostick, Kelce, Griffin

2014: 2.01, 2.03, 2.04, 2.09, 2.10; 3.01, 3.02, 3.04, 3.05, 3.09

Team 2 - 12 team ppr - 21 man roster/4 man TS - 1QB 2-4RB 2-4WR 1-3TE 1 DST 1 K
QB - Romo, Vick
RB - Lamar, Greene, Woodhead, Pierre Thomas, Daniel Thomas, Helu
WR - Gordon, Jeffery, Floyd, Cruz, Bailey, Blackmon, Britt, Holmes, Patton, Steve Smith
TE - Green, Witten, Robinson
2014: 1.08, 2.05, 3.08, 4.05

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby aaroneous » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:00 am

William Wallace wrote:"You rank Floyd and Patterson ahead of Cruz and Blackmon??"

Yes. If Blackmon had his head on right (he doesn't) and didn't have two strikes already it would be closer.
I think if you take out the "strikes" Blackmon has them beat but since that's not the reality I'd say through and through Floyd and Patterson are ahead on my ranks too.
Team 1 -12 team ppr league - 23 man roster/4 man TS - 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 RB/WR/TE, 1 TE

QB Rivers, Kaepernick
RB Foster, Peterson, Spiller, Khiry Robinson, Riddick,
WR Demayrius, James Jones, Crabtree, Dobson, Boyce, Holmes, Malcolm Floyd, Goodwin
TE Cameron, Pitta, Bostick, Kelce, Griffin

2014: 2.01, 2.03, 2.04, 2.09, 2.10; 3.01, 3.02, 3.04, 3.05, 3.09

Team 2 - 12 team ppr - 21 man roster/4 man TS - 1QB 2-4RB 2-4WR 1-3TE 1 DST 1 K
QB - Romo, Vick
RB - Lamar, Greene, Woodhead, Pierre Thomas, Daniel Thomas, Helu
WR - Gordon, Jeffery, Floyd, Cruz, Bailey, Blackmon, Britt, Holmes, Patton, Steve Smith
TE - Green, Witten, Robinson
2014: 1.08, 2.05, 3.08, 4.05

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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby Jfever » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:09 am

If Blackmon had his head on straight - he'd be far and away above Floyd, Patterson, and Cruz in my opinion.

There is much risk associated with him. More risk than any other player we've discussed. Thus - he drops a bit. High ceiling and extremely low floor with Blackmon drops him below Floyd, Cruz, and Patterson for me. If he cleans up his act (which I'm hopeful he does for his sake) I'd have him ranked on top of this list.

If i had to chose between Blackmon (with no off field issues) or Watkins - I take Watkins by a thin margin.
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Re: Sammy Watkins - unanimous #1?

Postby Jfever » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:23 am

As someone who is worried about his size, there are a few things I felt the need to point out. Rice was still bigger than Watkins is. Rice, as we all know, was an exemplary prospect through and through his entire career (including college). Not so much for Watkins. Also, Rice played in a different era of football than these days. His route running was so extraordinary and efficient he did not need to be tall and strong. When people talk about Watkins' strength and his ability to high point the ball, I think there is every reason to show some concern that he won't have dominance in those areas at the NFL. Rice is more of an exception than the general rule to live by.

I see a few things in here that I'm not so sure I agree 100% with.

As much as I hate doing this (comparing the best to ever play the position to a prospect) I will. Rice was not bigger than Watkins. If anything they are almost exactly the same. Rice again was 6'1.5 and 200 lbs entering the NFL out of Mississippi valley state (Div- 1AA) while Watkins is currently 6'1 205 lbs coming out of Div 1 A Clemson. Lets not ever compare Clemson to Mississippi Valley state again as they are substantially different. Rice obviously isn't the norm and I feel silly comparing these two to be honest but there are some points to be made here. J.Rice did run a 4.71 something 40 yd dash. Watkins is much faster than that and will likely be int he 4.40 range and maybe less, they are close to the same size if not the same size, Watkins is also a great hands catcher and almost never lets the ball get to his body, Watkins plays in an era where the passing game is more leaned on and actually in his offense it is a substitute for the run game many times via screen passes, because of that fact - he isn't near the route runner / and may never be that Rice was. To say that Watkins hasn't been an exemplary prospect through his college career I believe is flat out wrong as he's been on the radar for a few years now. Also, if Watkins is great at high pointing the ball and plucking it in the NCAA - that certainly is a skill that translates quite well. That skill is based on instinct, timing, hands, aggressiveness and tenacity - all of which translate quite well. He may not enter the NFL and be the best wr in the league but he certainly will be a very successful / heavily involved play maker. Because of this - it is my opinion that Watkins will be a low end wr1 fairly quickly into his NFL career. Of course some of that depends on where he goes in the short term. Long term though - I'm leaning toward him being a can't miss prospect.
Last edited by Jfever on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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