Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

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mullmania
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Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby mullmania » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:41 am

2 of my buddies are first time dynasty startup commishss and they read about doing separate rookie and veteran drafts for the startup.

They are recommending that 1.01 Vet Draft gets rookie pick 1.12

And Vet Pick 1.12 gets rookie pick 1.01

Rookie and vet draft would snake.


I think this a very dangerous idea to give the owner of picks 1.12-1.13 in the Vet Draft a Saquan Barkley copy as well.


That basically guarantees 1 team. 3 of the top 13 startup ADP picks.

Thoughts?

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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby Ice » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:50 am

No reason at all to have two drafts in a start up. Waste of energy and time and it does give one owner an advantage needlessly.
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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby jwint7910 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:55 am

If you want to have separate drafts, draft pick positions in the regular draft.

1.01 Gurley
1.02 Beckham
1.03 Hopkins
1.04 rookie pick position 1
1.05 AB
Etc...
Dynasty League: Est. 2012 2018 CHAMPION
10 Team PPR, All tds 6 points, 27 roster
Start: 1-QB, 2-4RB, 2-4WR, 1-3TE, 1-K, 1-DEF

QB BigBen, Dak
RB Barkley, Cook, Mixon, Chubb, D Williams, R Anderson, B Anderson
WR Nuk, AB, M Thomas, Cooper, M Williams, Godwin, Gallup, McLaurin, Cain, D Moore
TE Engram, Njoku, Knox
K Zuerlein
DEF Vikings, Chargers

2020:2,2,2,2,3,3-5
2021:1,2,2,5

Dynasty League: Est. 2017
12 Team PPR Superflex, 1/4 point per carry, TE bonus, All tds 6 points, 25 roster
Start: 1-2QB, 2-4RB, 3-5WR, 1-2TE, 1-K, 1-DEF

QB Rodgers, Watson, Luck, Murray
RB Mixon, Gordon, Chubb, Guice, Harris
WR JuJu, Cooks, Golladay, C Davis, Godwin, Fuller, Miller, Washington, Metcalf, AJ Brown, Quinn, C Moore
TE Engram, OJ Howard
K Zuerlein
DEF Denver

2019: 3.10,4.05
2020: 1,1,1,1,2,2,4-5
2021: 1-5

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BigBawseRoss
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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby BigBawseRoss » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:58 am

jwint7910 wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:55 am If you want to have separate drafts, draft pick positions in the regular draft.

1.01 Gurley
1.02 Beckham
1.03 Hopkins
1.04 rookie pick position 1
1.05 AB
Etc...
this is the only answer. doing reverse is a terrible idea. we did it in one league and i regretted it terribly lol
team 1
12 team, 1 pt for 4 rec, 0.1 per rush
1qb, 3 rb, 4 wr, te, k, 4 idp
Dak , Herbert
Achane, Breece Hall, KW3Kyren,Ford, Miller, Spiller, z evans, singletary
J Jefferson, Diggs, DK, D Smith Puka, C Watson, E Moore
Njoku , HH, Engram

2024 picks
1,3,4,5,5,6,7 (all late mostly)

team 2
12 team .5ppr
qb, 2 rb, 2 wr, te, flx,flx,
Fields, Dak
Ford,Mixon, Javonte, Mostert, Chubb, Spears
Hopkins, Evans, g Wilson Mingo, shaheed, Jamo
Kelce,McBride, Chig,


1,2,3,3,5

team 3
14 team sf, even scoring idp to offense (rb scores highly too)
Josh Allen, A Rich, Foles, Rudolph
Bijan, Charbs, Spears, Ebner
J Williams, G Wilson, C Watson, Flowers, J Addison, Tillman
Kincaid, Kolar, Ruckert, Fergeson

Kenny Clark, josh allen, jaelen phillips, felix a-u and a bunch of fluff and rookie fliers at idp

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jeffster
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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby jeffster » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:00 am

jwint7910 wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:55 am If you want to have separate drafts, draft pick positions in the regular draft.

1.01 Gurley
1.02 Beckham
1.03 Hopkins
1.04 rookie pick position 1
1.05 AB
Etc...
This is a great way to do it. Reversing vet pick position is always a terrible plan, because the values of the picks don't scale the same.

I particularly like this way because it let's you have two drafts, which is obviously twice as much fun as one.

abloom
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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby abloom » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:06 am

Works fine in auction drafts, not in snake drafts.

As said either have one draft with rookies and vets or be able to draft rookie draft pick slots
Team #1: 2nd place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K

Q: Kyler, Fields, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens, wilson
T: Kelce, Goedert, Thomas, woods
D: cle, nyj
K: Sanders

Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K

Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson, Browning, Rudolph, Zappe
R: Swift, Walker, Dobbins, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen, Nuk, Tre tucker, C Samuel,
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE

Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F

Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson

Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0004&O=01

Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0009&O=01

mullmania
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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby mullmania » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:17 am

I do not want to do separate drafts and I know we have a couple newb dynasty owners who won’t wrap their mind around the drafting of rookie slot picks well enoigh but I like that option so much better.

Thanks for recommending it.

hudini33
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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby hudini33 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:20 am

jeffster wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:00 am
jwint7910 wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:55 am If you want to have separate drafts, draft pick positions in the regular draft.

1.01 Gurley
1.02 Beckham
1.03 Hopkins
1.04 rookie pick position 1
1.05 AB
Etc...
This is a great way to do it. Reversing vet pick position is always a terrible plan, because the values of the picks don't scale the same.

I particularly like this way because it let's you have two drafts, which is obviously twice as much fun as one.
Piling on. However it's easier to just do one startup draft.

Also, it doesn't matter if Barkley is there or not, you should never flip position for rookie drafts
Last edited by hudini33 on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
No One 12-team, 21 man roster PPR (1QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, FLEX, D/ST, K) 0-0 EST. 2017

2018, 2021 Champion

QB: Hurts, Z Wilson, Minshew, Heinecke
RB: Zeke, Ekeler, Patterson, J Robinson, Pollard, Jamal Williams
WR: Diggs, Sutton, Metcalf, McLaurin, Mooney, V. Jefferson, M. Jones
TE: Andrews, Knox, Freiermuth
D/ST: Packers, Cardinals

2022 Picks: 1.12, 2.12, 3.03, 3.12
2023 Picks: 1, 2, 3, 3

2018 and 2021 Champion.
2020 Runner-up


Rookie Class Heroes 10-team, 30 man roster PPR (1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2FLEX) 0-0 EST. 2020

QB: Baker, Fields, Ryan, Darnold
RB: Dobbins, Jacobs, Harris, Herbert, , Bernard, J. Wilson, Kelley
WR: DJ Moore, Sutton, Waddle, Mooney, N. Collins, V. Jefferson, B. Edwards, D. Brown, Reynolds, Duvernay, Agholor, Mims, G Wilson, Pickens, Burks
TE: Engram, Kmet, Freiermuth, Tremble

2022 Picks: 1.08, 2.04, 2.09, 3.02, 4.04
2023 Picks: 1, 1, 3, 4

Rasorin
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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby Rasorin » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:26 am

They are all NFL players, playing this year, qualified to be on rosters this year, who are all free agents to a new league. Why on Earth would they be separated into to distinct draft pools?

Have to be added or use draft slots as proxies.

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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby abloom » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:45 am

mullmania wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:17 am I do not want to do separate drafts and I know we have a couple newb dynasty owners who won’t wrap their mind around the drafting of rookie slot picks well enoigh but I like that option so much better.

Thanks for recommending it.
Personally I think that post NFL draft you should just have a single fantasy draft with vets and rookies. Prior to NFL draft you can do 2 drafts where the vet draft you can opt to select rookie draft picks
Team #1: 2nd place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K

Q: Kyler, Fields, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens, wilson
T: Kelce, Goedert, Thomas, woods
D: cle, nyj
K: Sanders

Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K

Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson, Browning, Rudolph, Zappe
R: Swift, Walker, Dobbins, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen, Nuk, Tre tucker, C Samuel,
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE

Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F

Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson

Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0004&O=01

Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0009&O=01

mullmania
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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby mullmania » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:14 am

What did people regret most about separate drafts? Any loaded unfair teams as a result?

I’m looking for any ammo to talk my commishes down from the separate drafts and into the combined draft.

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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby HughHoney » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:19 am

I would not join a startup that used this approach.

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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby hockeyBjj » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:29 am

mullmania wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:14 am What did people regret most about separate drafts? Any loaded unfair teams as a result?

I’m looking for any ammo to talk my commishes down from the separate drafts and into the combined draft.
The 12 spot gets the 12th and 13th best overall player plus Barkley, who is already valued being top 10 himself

Even if not a Barley 1.1 year, there would still be a fist fight to get as late into the vet draft as you can, as the rookie boost of an early rookie over a late 1st rookie is drastically more than a late 1st startup pick vs early first startup pick.

Many people consider the 1.1 in a startup to be the worst position to draft from as sure you get your guy, but there's 4-6 players very close at the tippy top and then you don't get to pick again until the 24th pick. Yuck. Add to that your rookie is the 1.12? That's not fair at all
Team 1- 10 team ppr, 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2Flx, 1D, 1K
2022: 1-8
Finishes: 6th, 6th, 1st, 5th, 6th, 9th
QB: Lamar Jackson, Purdy
RB: Bijan, Dobbins, Achane, Charbonnet, Algier, McBride, waiver trash
WR: JSN, QJ, Addison, Dotson, Skyy Moore, Jameson Williams, Hyatt, T Dell, Boutte, Skowronek, Quez Watkins, Greg Dortch, waiver trash
TE: Hockenson, F Monroe, Juwan, Musgrave
D/K: Patriots, Vikings, Saints, Dicker

picks-
2024- 1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,5,5
2025 1,1,1,2,3,4,5

team 2- 12 team SF, .5PPR, .5TE boost, 1QB, 1SF, 2 RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2Flex
2022: 8-1
Finishes: 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd :wall:
QB: Ljax, GenoD Jones, Minshew, Dobbs
RB: CMC, Stevenson, A Jones, Chubb, A Mattison, D cook, Perine, Mckinnon,
WR:Tyreek, Diggs, C Kupp, D Adams, Keenan Allen, Lockett, Gallup, A Lazard, Hodgins
TE: Kelce, LaPorta, Irv Smith,
No picks until 2026 5th rounder lol

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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby chalorpas » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:31 pm

HughHoney wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:19 am I would not join a startup that used this approach.
Me either, unless I was pick 12 :lol:

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Re: Is a separate startup draft for vets and rookies really a bad idea with Barkley?

Postby bills2 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:48 pm

jwint7910 wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:55 am If you want to have separate drafts, draft pick positions in the regular draft.

1.01 Gurley
1.02 Beckham
1.03 Hopkins
1.04 rookie pick position 1
1.05 AB
Etc...
Agree this is the only way to go. This is how we did it in a recent start up league and it worked perfectly. Course that was before the NFL draft, if we held the start up draft now we would probably just include rookies.


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