Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

This is the place for team advice - should I make this trade, should I draft that player, etc.
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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby AussieMate » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:34 am

Damn, that does suck. Not about to throw him out but catching even one of those would have pushed him to 2tds and help him out of the "cant score in red zone" hole he is in. Still a believer but.. just.. damn coops, give me a hand here.
Glass half full at least he got 3 looks.
Glass half empty... Might not get 3 again lol

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby Hottoddies » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:27 am

This is the prefect trade for a rebuild. Prior to their injuries Arob/MWilliams were as valuable as Cooper/Mixon. And since they'll mostly be shelved this year it won't hurt your draft position next year. Then on top of that you get 3 future 1st for free... no brainer.
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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby nosferatu » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:14 am

flyersfan1981 wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:14 am
MockGM wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:09 am
tperry14 wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:47 am I would pass on this one, Mixon and Cooper should be the core of this rebuild in my opinion
Agree, those two should be the building blocks of a rebuild. Not worth getting a bunch of question marks back in return and inevitably prolonging your rebuild.
Is ARob a question mark any more than Cooper? If ARob didn't go down with the ACL he and Cooper would (or should be) valued about the same. ARob is going to be a free agent next year which means he gets away from Bortles. Next year ARob and Cooper will go back to being the same player. Williams/3 firsts is pretty good value for Mixon, a guy with some risks associated.

Declining this deal just means the rebuild will take longer IMO as the team isn't bad enough this year and isn't good enough either so his pick will be middle of the road and won't nab any of the elite players.
So I spent the night trying to get him off Mixon or get more thrown in. He's not budging. I could drop the trade and see if he comes back with more on the table, but there is another team in a similar position with similar players who has made it be known he wants to sell. I could see this deal going to him.

I feel like your last point here is what I keep coming back to. With not a ton of draft capital and limited pieces to sell, I feel like this rebuild may take too long. This quarantees I'm going to suck for two years, but at least I won't be stuck as a middling team.

That said, my main question is could I get more for Cooper/Mixon if I put them on the market independently? Perhaps I should be shopping Cooper and hold Mixon.

Thanks for the great feedback in this thread thus far.
A - 12tm PPR: QB, SFLX, 3RB, 3WR, TE, FLX

QBs: Burrow, Lawrence, Fields, Darnold, Wilson, Rypien
RBs: Dillon, Nwangwu, junk
WRs: Chark, Reagor, Chase, Smith, Bateman, Mooney, Rodgers, Waddle, Preston, Lazard
TEs: Herndon, Freiermuth, Sternberger
2022: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4

B - 12tm PPR: QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, 2FLX (SFLX in 2022)

QBs: Mahomes, Ryan, Eason
RBs: Cook, Jones, Gordon, Robinson, Gibson, Mattison, Harris, Jackson, Hasty, Michel
WRs: Adams, Nuk, Golladay, Boyd, Preston, Shepard, Gage, Harry
TEs: Henry, Ebron, Hurst, Graham
2021: 1.11, 3.11, 4.11 2022: 1, 2, 3, 4

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby flyersfan1981 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:40 am

Could you get more? Maybe...here is the thing...if you publicly put those guys on the block and don't get any better offers, you lose your leverage. If you have to go back to your old girlfriend after you see there isn't anything better, she might not want you back...do see what I am getting at?

You mentioned a long rebuild...well if you pass on all these assets (all those 1sts are guaranteed to gain value) your rebuild could take longer because Cooper and Mix on are only two players. And keeping them also hurts your draft position.

I mean Cooper's ceiling is probably 1250 yards and ARob has already exceeded that with a trash QB. So in 2018, from a production standpoint you can swap Cooper for ARob and get the same production. Are you really that sold on Mix on that you wouldn't move him for Mike Williams and all those 1sts, improving your own draft pick simultaneously? I mean we now have two games of game film on him...I haven't seen anything that makes me think he is special or a player to build around. In fact I would gladly parlay him with another 1st next year to move up for Barkley or Guice. You can essentially do that for free because if you make this deal now you can just sell it all and rebuild faster.

I feel like the folks telling you this isn't enough for Cooper are just stubborn and think he is destined to be Julio/AJG/Dez/etc. when he just isn't that guy. Stud WR1s some in and immediately assert their dominance. Cooper is letting Crabtree outplay him...his overinflated value here on this site is silly at this point and his consecutive TD drops last week validated the silliness.
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Rivers, Wilson
Gurley, JStew, West, Duke, Breida, Smallwood, Joe Williams
Nuk, Alshon, Sanders, Doctson, Crowder, Carroo, Carlos Henderson
Ertz, Kittle

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Rodgers, Bortles
McCoy, Howard, Chubb, Crowell, Cohen, D. Martin, McGuire, Joe Williams, Breida, West, Aaron Jones
Cooks, Alshon, MBryant, Britt, Boyd, Wright, Carroo, Chad Williams
Kelce, Julius Thomas, Jesse James, Shaheen, D. Allen

#4 12-team PPR S-flex TE Prem

Wentz, Trubisky, Cutler
Kamara, Ajayi, Howard, Lacy, Mack, Elijah McGuire, Sproles, Turbin
Hopkins, Alshon, Parker, Stills, Britt, ArDarius, P Cooper, TWilliams
Brate, Green, D Allen, Higbee, Hodges, Anderson
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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby nosferatu » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:11 am

flyersfan1981 wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:40 am Could you get more? Maybe...here is the thing...if you publicly put those guys on the block and don't get any better offers, you lose your leverage. If you have to go back to your old girlfriend after you see there isn't anything better, she might not want you back...do see what I am getting at?

You mentioned a long rebuild...well if you pass on all these assets (all those 1sts are guaranteed to gain value) your rebuild could take longer because Cooper and Mix on are only two players. And keeping them also hurts your draft position.

I mean Cooper's ceiling is probably 1250 yards and ARob has already exceeded that with a trash QB. So in 2018, from a production standpoint you can swap Cooper for ARob and get the same production. Are you really that sold on Mix on that you wouldn't move him for Mike Williams and all those 1sts, improving your own draft pick simultaneously? I mean we now have two games of game film on him...I haven't seen anything that makes me think he is special or a player to build around. In fact I would gladly parlay him with another 1st next year to move up for Barkley or Guice. You can essentially do that for free because if you make this deal now you can just sell it all and rebuild faster.

I feel like the folks telling you this isn't enough for Cooper are just stubborn and think he is destined to be Julio/AJG/Dez/etc. when he just isn't that guy. Stud WR1s some in and immediately assert their dominance. Cooper is letting Crabtree outplay him...his overinflated value here on this site is silly at this point and his consecutive TD drops last week validated the silliness.
I just had another thought. DJ was on a contending team. I'm considering offering him Cooper/Jstew for DJ. Not sure if he would bite, but it would solve my RB situation and boost my draft pick next year at the same time.

In the meantime I'm going to keep working on the guy to get max value out of him before I make a deal.
A - 12tm PPR: QB, SFLX, 3RB, 3WR, TE, FLX

QBs: Burrow, Lawrence, Fields, Darnold, Wilson, Rypien
RBs: Dillon, Nwangwu, junk
WRs: Chark, Reagor, Chase, Smith, Bateman, Mooney, Rodgers, Waddle, Preston, Lazard
TEs: Herndon, Freiermuth, Sternberger
2022: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4

B - 12tm PPR: QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, 2FLX (SFLX in 2022)

QBs: Mahomes, Ryan, Eason
RBs: Cook, Jones, Gordon, Robinson, Gibson, Mattison, Harris, Jackson, Hasty, Michel
WRs: Adams, Nuk, Golladay, Boyd, Preston, Shepard, Gage, Harry
TEs: Henry, Ebron, Hurst, Graham
2021: 1.11, 3.11, 4.11 2022: 1, 2, 3, 4

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby flyersfan1981 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:30 am

nosferatu wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:11 am
flyersfan1981 wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:40 am Could you get more? Maybe...here is the thing...if you publicly put those guys on the block and don't get any better offers, you lose your leverage. If you have to go back to your old girlfriend after you see there isn't anything better, she might not want you back...do see what I am getting at?

You mentioned a long rebuild...well if you pass on all these assets (all those 1sts are guaranteed to gain value) your rebuild could take longer because Cooper and Mix on are only two players. And keeping them also hurts your draft position.

I mean Cooper's ceiling is probably 1250 yards and ARob has already exceeded that with a trash QB. So in 2018, from a production standpoint you can swap Cooper for ARob and get the same production. Are you really that sold on Mix on that you wouldn't move him for Mike Williams and all those 1sts, improving your own draft pick simultaneously? I mean we now have two games of game film on him...I haven't seen anything that makes me think he is special or a player to build around. In fact I would gladly parlay him with another 1st next year to move up for Barkley or Guice. You can essentially do that for free because if you make this deal now you can just sell it all and rebuild faster.

I feel like the folks telling you this isn't enough for Cooper are just stubborn and think he is destined to be Julio/AJG/Dez/etc. when he just isn't that guy. Stud WR1s some in and immediately assert their dominance. Cooper is letting Crabtree outplay him...his overinflated value here on this site is silly at this point and his consecutive TD drops last week validated the silliness.
I just had another thought. DJ was on a contending team. I'm considering offering him Cooper/Jstew for DJ. Not sure if he would bite, but it would solve my RB situation and boost my draft pick next year at the same time.

In the meantime I'm going to keep working on the guy to get max value out of him before I make a deal.
Reasonable deal but now you are robbing Peter to pay Paul as your WR situation is a mess without a WR1.

Maybe I just like the original offer and can't move off it.
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Ertz, Kittle

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Rodgers, Bortles
McCoy, Howard, Chubb, Crowell, Cohen, D. Martin, McGuire, Joe Williams, Breida, West, Aaron Jones
Cooks, Alshon, MBryant, Britt, Boyd, Wright, Carroo, Chad Williams
Kelce, Julius Thomas, Jesse James, Shaheen, D. Allen

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Wentz, Trubisky, Cutler
Kamara, Ajayi, Howard, Lacy, Mack, Elijah McGuire, Sproles, Turbin
Hopkins, Alshon, Parker, Stills, Britt, ArDarius, P Cooper, TWilliams
Brate, Green, D Allen, Higbee, Hodges, Anderson
1.02/1.10

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby moishetreats » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:23 am

All the advice here is incredibly thoughtful -- and passionate! But, let's be honest: it only comes down one single thing -- how you view Cooper vs. ARod.

Those are two of the more polarizing players in the fantasy world right now. If you see a huge gap -- because you're high on Cooper and/or low on ARod -- then you pass without a second though. If you do not see a big gap -- because you're low on Cooper and/or high on ARod -- the it's a snap-accept.

For my money, I'd actually create a poll (maybe in a separate thread) with two polar possibilities:

Which do you think is more likely:
1) Cooper becomes an elite WR; or
2) ARod never returns to WR1 status.

This would be the only answer that you need to make the call on this trade.

Of course, if you already have your answer to this, then your decision is made.
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Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball

QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby flyersfan1981 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:56 pm

Just gonna bump this one back up here for fun...

OP, what did you end up doing?
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#2-12 Team .5 PPR (25-max)

Rivers, Wilson
Gurley, JStew, West, Duke, Breida, Smallwood, Joe Williams
Nuk, Alshon, Sanders, Doctson, Crowder, Carroo, Carlos Henderson
Ertz, Kittle

#3 14-team PPR (27-max) Year 2

Rodgers, Bortles
McCoy, Howard, Chubb, Crowell, Cohen, D. Martin, McGuire, Joe Williams, Breida, West, Aaron Jones
Cooks, Alshon, MBryant, Britt, Boyd, Wright, Carroo, Chad Williams
Kelce, Julius Thomas, Jesse James, Shaheen, D. Allen

#4 12-team PPR S-flex TE Prem

Wentz, Trubisky, Cutler
Kamara, Ajayi, Howard, Lacy, Mack, Elijah McGuire, Sproles, Turbin
Hopkins, Alshon, Parker, Stills, Britt, ArDarius, P Cooper, TWilliams
Brate, Green, D Allen, Higbee, Hodges, Anderson
1.02/1.10

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby nosferatu » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:50 am

Nothing yet. Still talking with him and neither of us are meeting in the middle. I'm trying to get:

Cooper/Mixon for Arob/MWilliams/(2) 2018 1sts/2018 2nd/2019 1st/2019 2nd
A - 12tm PPR: QB, SFLX, 3RB, 3WR, TE, FLX

QBs: Burrow, Lawrence, Fields, Darnold, Wilson, Rypien
RBs: Dillon, Nwangwu, junk
WRs: Chark, Reagor, Chase, Smith, Bateman, Mooney, Rodgers, Waddle, Preston, Lazard
TEs: Herndon, Freiermuth, Sternberger
2022: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4

B - 12tm PPR: QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, 2FLX (SFLX in 2022)

QBs: Mahomes, Ryan, Eason
RBs: Cook, Jones, Gordon, Robinson, Gibson, Mattison, Harris, Jackson, Hasty, Michel
WRs: Adams, Nuk, Golladay, Boyd, Preston, Shepard, Gage, Harry
TEs: Henry, Ebron, Hurst, Graham
2021: 1.11, 3.11, 4.11 2022: 1, 2, 3, 4

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby nosferatu » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:54 am

I just noticed he also just lost Coleman. I wonder if I could get him as well.

Cooper/Shepard/Mixon
Arob/MWilliams/Coleman/(2) 2018 1sts/2018 2nd/2019 1st/2019 2nd

Could add JStew to my side as well, but would love to flip him for another 2nd elsewhere.
A - 12tm PPR: QB, SFLX, 3RB, 3WR, TE, FLX

QBs: Burrow, Lawrence, Fields, Darnold, Wilson, Rypien
RBs: Dillon, Nwangwu, junk
WRs: Chark, Reagor, Chase, Smith, Bateman, Mooney, Rodgers, Waddle, Preston, Lazard
TEs: Herndon, Freiermuth, Sternberger
2022: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4

B - 12tm PPR: QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, 2FLX (SFLX in 2022)

QBs: Mahomes, Ryan, Eason
RBs: Cook, Jones, Gordon, Robinson, Gibson, Mattison, Harris, Jackson, Hasty, Michel
WRs: Adams, Nuk, Golladay, Boyd, Preston, Shepard, Gage, Harry
TEs: Henry, Ebron, Hurst, Graham
2021: 1.11, 3.11, 4.11 2022: 1, 2, 3, 4

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby flyersfan1981 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:57 am

nosferatu wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:50 am Nothing yet. Still talking with him and neither of us are meeting in the middle. I'm trying to get:

Cooper/Mixon for Arob/MWilliams/(2) 2018 1sts/2018 2nd/2019 1st/2019 2nd
Wait what?!?!

So the only difference to what you want to get is a 2019 2nd? In the original offer, you were giving one up and in this once the other guy is? A 2019 2nd is so insignificant to the overall deal and after Cooper was outplayed again by Crabtree, it is a miracle that the original deal is still on the table.
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#2-12 Team .5 PPR (25-max)

Rivers, Wilson
Gurley, JStew, West, Duke, Breida, Smallwood, Joe Williams
Nuk, Alshon, Sanders, Doctson, Crowder, Carroo, Carlos Henderson
Ertz, Kittle

#3 14-team PPR (27-max) Year 2

Rodgers, Bortles
McCoy, Howard, Chubb, Crowell, Cohen, D. Martin, McGuire, Joe Williams, Breida, West, Aaron Jones
Cooks, Alshon, MBryant, Britt, Boyd, Wright, Carroo, Chad Williams
Kelce, Julius Thomas, Jesse James, Shaheen, D. Allen

#4 12-team PPR S-flex TE Prem

Wentz, Trubisky, Cutler
Kamara, Ajayi, Howard, Lacy, Mack, Elijah McGuire, Sproles, Turbin
Hopkins, Alshon, Parker, Stills, Britt, ArDarius, P Cooper, TWilliams
Brate, Green, D Allen, Higbee, Hodges, Anderson
1.02/1.10

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby flyersfan1981 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:00 am

nosferatu wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:54 am I just noticed he also just lost Coleman. I wonder if I could get him as well.

Cooper/Shepard/Mixon
Arob/MWilliams/Coleman/(2) 2018 1sts/2018 2nd/2019 1st/2019 2nd

Could add JStew to my side as well, but would love to flip him for another 2nd elsewhere.
Okay...I was rooting for you, but now you are just being greedy and are likely going to blow this whole thing.

And why do you want Coleman in exchange for Shepard? Coleman isn't any good and now he is hurt...Shepard isn't any good either but this entire deal keeps getting more complicated. Overanalysis causes paralysis...don't see a deal getting done if you keep pushing the envelope for a deal already in your favor.
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Winston, Wentz
Ingram, Jones, Dalvin Cook, Rawls, Smallwood, McGuire
Evans, Keenan, Parker, Corey Davis, Lockett, Ty Williams
Ertz
1.05/1.06/1.07

#2-12 Team .5 PPR (25-max)

Rivers, Wilson
Gurley, JStew, West, Duke, Breida, Smallwood, Joe Williams
Nuk, Alshon, Sanders, Doctson, Crowder, Carroo, Carlos Henderson
Ertz, Kittle

#3 14-team PPR (27-max) Year 2

Rodgers, Bortles
McCoy, Howard, Chubb, Crowell, Cohen, D. Martin, McGuire, Joe Williams, Breida, West, Aaron Jones
Cooks, Alshon, MBryant, Britt, Boyd, Wright, Carroo, Chad Williams
Kelce, Julius Thomas, Jesse James, Shaheen, D. Allen

#4 12-team PPR S-flex TE Prem

Wentz, Trubisky, Cutler
Kamara, Ajayi, Howard, Lacy, Mack, Elijah McGuire, Sproles, Turbin
Hopkins, Alshon, Parker, Stills, Britt, ArDarius, P Cooper, TWilliams
Brate, Green, D Allen, Higbee, Hodges, Anderson
1.02/1.10

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby nosferatu » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:17 am

flyersfan1981 wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:00 am
nosferatu wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:54 am I just noticed he also just lost Coleman. I wonder if I could get him as well.

Cooper/Shepard/Mixon
Arob/MWilliams/Coleman/(2) 2018 1sts/2018 2nd/2019 1st/2019 2nd

Could add JStew to my side as well, but would love to flip him for another 2nd elsewhere.
Okay...I was rooting for you, but now you are just being greedy and are likely going to blow this whole thing.

And why do you want Coleman in exchange for Shepard? Coleman isn't any good and now he is hurt...Shepard isn't any good either but this entire deal keeps getting more complicated. Overanalysis causes paralysis...don't see a deal getting done if you keep pushing the envelope for a deal already in your favor.
The deal is done. We haggled back in forth all weekend. I knew he wasn't walking since he approached me pretty aggressively about it. I keep all my picks, get all his firsts, a second in 2019, and 60 FAAB (I had none after grabbing Lynch who I flipped for my current extra picks).

Give Mixon/Cooper
Get ARob, MWill, (2) 2018 1st, 2019 1st, 2019 2nd, 60 FAAB
A - 12tm PPR: QB, SFLX, 3RB, 3WR, TE, FLX

QBs: Burrow, Lawrence, Fields, Darnold, Wilson, Rypien
RBs: Dillon, Nwangwu, junk
WRs: Chark, Reagor, Chase, Smith, Bateman, Mooney, Rodgers, Waddle, Preston, Lazard
TEs: Herndon, Freiermuth, Sternberger
2022: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4

B - 12tm PPR: QB, 2RB, 3WR, TE, 2FLX (SFLX in 2022)

QBs: Mahomes, Ryan, Eason
RBs: Cook, Jones, Gordon, Robinson, Gibson, Mattison, Harris, Jackson, Hasty, Michel
WRs: Adams, Nuk, Golladay, Boyd, Preston, Shepard, Gage, Harry
TEs: Henry, Ebron, Hurst, Graham
2021: 1.11, 3.11, 4.11 2022: 1, 2, 3, 4

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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby dblj1199 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:46 am

Goddard wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:15 am I'd pass. In a rebuild, you should be building around Cooper and Mixon, not trading them away. As much as I like Arob, the rest of the pieces aren't enough.
Exactly, use them as building blocks.
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RB- S Barkley, Pollard, B Hall, K Herbert, D Foreman, R Johnson, Zeke, J Robinson, Z White, J Wilson(i.r.), J McKinnon, J Mason, J Hill
WR- J Jefferson, Deebo, DJ Moore, OBJ, S Moore, J Jennings, C Austin, Trey Palmer
TE- Andrews, Higbee, Dulchich, Ferguson, D Washington
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Re: Cooper/Mixon - Arob/MWilliams

Postby flyersfan1981 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:47 am

That is a great, great deal for you as a rebuild. Amazed that he was still willing to pay it after Cooper was so pedestrian this week.
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Evans, Keenan, Parker, Corey Davis, Lockett, Ty Williams
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#2-12 Team .5 PPR (25-max)

Rivers, Wilson
Gurley, JStew, West, Duke, Breida, Smallwood, Joe Williams
Nuk, Alshon, Sanders, Doctson, Crowder, Carroo, Carlos Henderson
Ertz, Kittle

#3 14-team PPR (27-max) Year 2

Rodgers, Bortles
McCoy, Howard, Chubb, Crowell, Cohen, D. Martin, McGuire, Joe Williams, Breida, West, Aaron Jones
Cooks, Alshon, MBryant, Britt, Boyd, Wright, Carroo, Chad Williams
Kelce, Julius Thomas, Jesse James, Shaheen, D. Allen

#4 12-team PPR S-flex TE Prem

Wentz, Trubisky, Cutler
Kamara, Ajayi, Howard, Lacy, Mack, Elijah McGuire, Sproles, Turbin
Hopkins, Alshon, Parker, Stills, Britt, ArDarius, P Cooper, TWilliams
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