Tyler Lockett

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ADrunkenCaveman
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby ADrunkenCaveman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:49 am

skip wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:47 am
ADrunkenCaveman wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:41 am I got an owner in my league to OVERPAY like crazy for him in a 16 teamer.

I Got: D Lewis, TyWill, 2018 2nd
I Gave: Lockett

Very happy with the deal.. Someone reading the forum will look at that and be like, "I would trade that for Lockett." AND you sir are an idiot lol
I'd have traded Lockett just for Tyrell... Candy from a baby, my friend.
Yea he showed HUGE interest in Lockett and his initial offer was Tyrell + 2018 2nd and I needed RB help so said if he threw in Dixon or Lewis I could do it and he sent the offer the next minute lol
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S: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 3FLEX

QBs: Brees, Wentz, Beathard
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TEs: Rudolph, Davis, Watson
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LBs: Kirksey, Williams, Foster, Hicks, Perryman, Posluszny, Alexander, Walker, Morgan
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Ss: Vaccaro, Mathieu, Church, Evans, Sendejo

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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby ChuckCecil26 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:36 am

ADrunkenCaveman wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:49 am
skip wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:47 am
ADrunkenCaveman wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:41 am I got an owner in my league to OVERPAY like crazy for him in a 16 teamer.

I Got: D Lewis, TyWill, 2018 2nd
I Gave: Lockett

Very happy with the deal.. Someone reading the forum will look at that and be like, "I would trade that for Lockett." AND you sir are an idiot lol
I'd have traded Lockett just for Tyrell... Candy from a baby, my friend.
Yea he showed HUGE interest in Lockett and his initial offer was Tyrell + 2018 2nd and I needed RB help so said if he threw in Dixon or Lewis I could do it and he sent the offer the next minute lol
I've been called an idiot many times, but yeah, I would sell that for Lockett and toast myself at the nearest pub afterward. This is nowhere close to a massive overpay as you say.

Dion Lewis may be the most overrated player in fantasy football. Bill's already thinking about replacing him with Burkhead. White and DJ Foster are still on the roster and the draft hasn't happened yet. Lewis is also unstartable because even if he makes the team and stays healthy and everything else falls into place, how are you going to predict his 4 good games in 2017? The Patriots didn't even trust him in the Super Bowl.

Your trade partner opened a valuable roster spot with this trade and saddled you with a roster-clogging albatross.

A random 2018 2nd has a high bust rate.

And when all else is even, I always bet on the guy with draft pedigree over the UDFA. Who knows, Tyrell Williams might be the next Allen Hurns. A year after going in the 7th round in startups, Hurns is a 16th round pick (and an untradeable fantasy asset).
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby oogieboogie » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:44 am

maybe a mid-2nd?

then again maybe Seattle opens up the passing offense more. I'm just not very excited about Lockett.
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby skip » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:59 am

ChuckCecil26 wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:36 am And when all else is even, I always bet on the guy with draft pedigree over the UDFA. Who knows, Tyrell Williams might be the next Allen Hurns. A year after going in the 7th round in startups, Hurns is a 16th round pick (and an untradeable fantasy asset).
I'd hardly call "all else even". And if we're doing a comparison

Hurns 11 games 35-477-3 (3-43 avg)
Lockett 15 games 41-597-1 (3-40 avg)

This is an age old problem of expectation - partly based on "draft pedigree". Lockett's expectations for 2016 were too high and unreasonable. There was nothing except manipulated stats from 2015 to suggest that he was going to have some big breakout in his 2nd year in the league. Lockett may currently have trade value but if he has another season anywhere close to the job he did in 2016, his value is going to tank faster than Milli Vanilli.
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby jdacunha » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:01 am

after that injury? a 2nd is all I would pay.

I would NEVER pay a 1st rd pick and I drafted Lockett when he was a rookie.
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby ADrunkenCaveman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:03 am

ChuckCecil26 wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:36 am
ADrunkenCaveman wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:49 am
skip wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:47 am

I'd have traded Lockett just for Tyrell... Candy from a baby, my friend.
Yea he showed HUGE interest in Lockett and his initial offer was Tyrell + 2018 2nd and I needed RB help so said if he threw in Dixon or Lewis I could do it and he sent the offer the next minute lol
I've been called an idiot many times, but yeah, I would sell that for Lockett and toast myself at the nearest pub afterward. This is nowhere close to a massive overpay as you say.

Dion Lewis may be the most overrated player in fantasy football. Bill's already thinking about replacing him with Burkhead. White and DJ Foster are still on the roster and the draft hasn't happened yet. Lewis is also unstartable because even if he makes the team and stays healthy and everything else falls into place, how are you going to predict his 4 good games in 2017? The Patriots didn't even trust him in the Super Bowl.

Your trade partner opened a valuable roster spot with this trade and saddled you with a roster-clogging albatross.

A random 2018 2nd has a high bust rate.

And when all else is even, I always bet on the guy with draft pedigree over the UDFA. Who knows, Tyrell Williams might be the next Allen Hurns. A year after going in the 7th round in startups, Hurns is a 16th round pick (and an untradeable fantasy asset).
Well for the record.. I traded Lewis for Perriman + DGB + 2nd
So for Lockett I technically got:
Tywilliams + Perriman + DGB + 2017 2nd + 2018 2nd
If you wanna break it down completely I guess you should have all the details.. Have trade in the works involving Perriman+ for Baldwin as well..
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S: 1QB, 2RBs, 3WRs, 1TE, 1FLEX, 1K, 1DEF

QBs: Brady, Flacco
RBs: Zeke, D Murray, McKinnon, Powell
WRs: Hopkins, Cooks, J Nelson, Baldwin, R Matthews, Quick
TEs: Reed, Rudolph, Davis
K: Dawson
DEF: CAR, BAL

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S: 1QB 1RB 1WR 1TE 3FLEX

QBs: Wilson, Keenum, Flacco
RBs: McCoy, Howard, McKinnon, B Allen, Woodhead
WRs: Evans, Julio, Tate, Smith
TEs: Rudolph, Clay

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16 team .5PPR Full IDP League
S: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 3FLEX

QBs: Brees, Wentz, Beathard
RBs: Murray, Miller, Ingram, Gore, Riddick
WRs: AB, Hilton, Dez, Tate, Lafell, Inman, Rodgers, Kearse
TEs: Rudolph, Davis, Watson
DTs: Short, McCoy, Lotulelei, Allen, Sims
DEs: Dunlap, Hicks, Wolf, Robison
LBs: Kirksey, Williams, Foster, Hicks, Perryman, Posluszny, Alexander, Walker, Morgan
CBs: Alford, Slay, Harris, Waynes, Randall, Bradberry, Trufant
Ss: Vaccaro, Mathieu, Church, Evans, Sendejo

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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby skip » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:05 am

ADrunkenCaveman wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:03 am I traded Lewis for Perriman + DGB + 2nd
You need to hang your head in shame for pulling that one off. Do you feel no guilt?
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby ADrunkenCaveman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:07 am

skip wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:05 am
ADrunkenCaveman wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:03 am I traded Lewis for Perriman + DGB + 2nd
You need to hang your head in shame for pulling that one off. Do you feel no guilt?
Haha its a league that has 96 teams and 6 copies so in essence a 16 teamer and RBs are EXTREMELY over valued lol.
I didn't even negotiate that one lol I just accepted it.. probably could have gotten more if I had, but didn't need/want to put effort into it lol.
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The Wookies
12 team PPR League
S: 1QB, 2RBs, 3WRs, 1TE, 1FLEX, 1K, 1DEF

QBs: Brady, Flacco
RBs: Zeke, D Murray, McKinnon, Powell
WRs: Hopkins, Cooks, J Nelson, Baldwin, R Matthews, Quick
TEs: Reed, Rudolph, Davis
K: Dawson
DEF: CAR, BAL

9-1
Tune Squad
16 team .5PPR League
S: 1QB 1RB 1WR 1TE 3FLEX

QBs: Wilson, Keenum, Flacco
RBs: McCoy, Howard, McKinnon, B Allen, Woodhead
WRs: Evans, Julio, Tate, Smith
TEs: Rudolph, Clay

8-2
Midwest Folks
Co-Owner: pierson242
16 team .5PPR Full IDP League
S: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 3FLEX

QBs: Brees, Wentz, Beathard
RBs: Murray, Miller, Ingram, Gore, Riddick
WRs: AB, Hilton, Dez, Tate, Lafell, Inman, Rodgers, Kearse
TEs: Rudolph, Davis, Watson
DTs: Short, McCoy, Lotulelei, Allen, Sims
DEs: Dunlap, Hicks, Wolf, Robison
LBs: Kirksey, Williams, Foster, Hicks, Perryman, Posluszny, Alexander, Walker, Morgan
CBs: Alford, Slay, Harris, Waynes, Randall, Bradberry, Trufant
Ss: Vaccaro, Mathieu, Church, Evans, Sendejo

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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby ChuckCecil26 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:29 pm

skip wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:59 am
ChuckCecil26 wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:36 am And when all else is even, I always bet on the guy with draft pedigree over the UDFA. Who knows, Tyrell Williams might be the next Allen Hurns. A year after going in the 7th round in startups, Hurns is a 16th round pick (and an untradeable fantasy asset).
I'd hardly call "all else even". And if we're doing a comparison

Hurns 11 games 35-477-3 (3-43 avg)
Lockett 15 games 41-597-1 (3-40 avg)

This is an age old problem of expectation - partly based on "draft pedigree". Lockett's expectations for 2016 were too high and unreasonable. There was nothing except manipulated stats from 2015 to suggest that he was going to have some big breakout in his 2nd year in the league. Lockett may currently have trade value but if he has another season anywhere close to the job he did in 2016, his value is going to tank faster than Milli Vanilli.
Oh come on, comparing Hurns' miserable Season 3 to Lockett's injury-plagued Season 2 is intentionally misleading. I compared Williams with Hurns because they're both UDFAs who supernovaed in their second seasons. Hurns subsequently fell off a cliff.

If I was going to compare the Year 2 stats of WRs who were drafted in the early rounds and had elite QBs but struggled with injuries in their 2nd seasons:

D Adams 13 games 50-483-1
Lockett 15 games 41-597-1
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby ChuckCecil26 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:45 pm

Second NFL Seasons:

Allen Hurns
64-1031-10

Tyrell Willams
69-1059-7
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby skip » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:51 pm

ChuckCecil26 wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:29 pm Oh come on, comparing Hurns' miserable Season 3 to Lockett's injury-plagued Season 2 is intentionally misleading. I compared Williams with Hurns because they're both UDFAs who supernovaed in their second seasons. Hurns subsequently fell off a cliff.

You intentionally cherry-picked Hurns to try to prove a point about Williams and followed it up with a similar one with Adams as it relates to Lockett. I was simply demonstrating that stats (like draft pedigree) can be misleading and used to try to prove whatever point you wish.

Every situation is unique. Tyrell is very talented, whether you want to dismiss him for that is irrelevant to me. He plays like Mike Evans and I am not giving him away for Tyler Lockett. Draft pedigree says nothing regarding the talent of these two.
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby Goddard » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:04 pm

skip wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:33 pm People overvalued him as a 1st round pick a year ago. There is no way he is worth that. Middle 2nd as a low upside player. His value is in return yardage leagues. Far too many better options out there.
This exactly.

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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby ChuckCecil26 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:49 pm

Goddard wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:04 pm
skip wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:33 pm People overvalued him as a 1st round pick a year ago. There is no way he is worth that. Middle 2nd as a low upside player. His value is in return yardage leagues. Far too many better options out there.
This exactly.
This isn't redraft. It's dynasty. How can the jury be in already on owners who may have traded 1.10 for Lockett last season? We know for a fact that Tyler Boyd's better than Lockett? Leonte Carroo's better?

Lockett went late 4th in a recent industry startup. Boyd and Carroo were drafted MUCH later.
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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby Space Cowboy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:56 pm

Lockett was also dinged up for the first 8 weeks. He was a disaster in my redraft league. Then another major injury.

I'd much rather own Richardson for 1/3 the cost. My 16 team startup with return yards ended last month and Lockett went 10 rounds or so before Richardson. Steal if you ask me. Watch what he did in the playoffs in case you forgot.

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Re: Tyler Lockett

Postby ChuckCecil26 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:01 pm

skip wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:51 pm
ChuckCecil26 wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:29 pm Oh come on, comparing Hurns' miserable Season 3 to Lockett's injury-plagued Season 2 is intentionally misleading. I compared Williams with Hurns because they're both UDFAs who supernovaed in their second seasons. Hurns subsequently fell off a cliff.

You intentionally cherry-picked Hurns to try to prove a point about Williams and followed it up with a similar one with Adams as it relates to Lockett. I was simply demonstrating that stats (like draft pedigree) can be misleading and used to try to prove whatever point you wish.

Every situation is unique. Tyrell is very talented, whether you want to dismiss him for that is irrelevant to me. He plays like Mike Evans and I am not giving him away for Tyler Lockett. Draft pedigree says nothing regarding the talent of these two.
You didn't care for the comparison because it didn't fit your premise. Williams and Hurns are comparable players who've had nearly identical beginnings to their careers.

You say there are many, but I don't see a lot of "far better" dynasty options in the mid rounds of startups. Not to mention that it looks like this year's crop of rookie WRs might be historically weak so reinforcements are probably not on the way.

This debate began, btw, because you guys are going Full Frat Bro, celebrating with lols and back slaps for allegedly robbing another owner in a massive "overpay" in a dynasty trade! IMO, the owner who got Lockett did not get robbed.
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