Tyrell Williams

[Space Cowboy]

Allen can't be trusted. Tyrell was looking very vjax like this season. I'm buying.

[skip]

I honestly think it's laughable that some are ready to say Williams is better then Keenan. I like Williams, but not close

Where did someone say that?

Agree. Haven't seen or heard that anywhere. I will say pretty confidently that he is already better than Travis Benjamin though, and the gap will only get larger between the two as Tyrell continues to develop. Dude was ridiculously raw coming out of college, and he is a prime candidate for the old "3rd year bump" that we all used to believe in and talk about before the 2014 WR class came in and changed all that, with expectations of immediate elite-ness being the new norm. At worst, I see him 3rd in targets behind Keenan and whichever TE is on the field on any given play. At best, I see him 2nd, behind only Keenan. That is, until Keenan gets hurt. Again.

Nope, no one said it. I guess he is assuming that I am inferring it. But for argument's sake, let's hear the best arguments as to why this would be "laughable". I'd like to know what Keenan brings to the table that makes him SO MUCH better than Tyrell Williams. I'll start with the opposing viewpoint since I am the resident "hater" on Keenan Allen.

Four years in the league (started all but 1 game his rookie year):
71-1046-8 (15 games, 104 targets, ypr 14.7)
77-783-4 (14 games, 122 targets, ypr 10.2)
67-725-4 (8 games, 89 targets, ypr 10.8)
6-63 (1 game, 7 targets, ypr 10.6)

The primary thing that stands out with Keenan is the percentage of targets he catches at almost 69%. His career ypr is 11.8, buoyed by his rookie season as he's been consistently under 11 since that time. He also saw a regression from his rookie to his sophomore season. It was his 3rd year in the league that the majority of owners look at when basing their rankings - right or wrong - and the focus is on his targets at 11+ per game. In terms of his "athleticism" he is listed at 6'2" and 211 pounds and ran a 4.58 40 - not particularly fast for a WR but not a game breaker either as speed is only one aspect of the game. He doesn't have the physical play of a Dez Bryant or wing span of an Odell. He plays "small" for his size, not making much for a red zone target either. His game is about space.

And let's be clear...I don't dislike Keenan Allen. I think he is a fine receiver. What he is NOT is an elite talent. So in terms of "not close" to a Tyrell Williams, I assume there are plenty of people who must think he's either in the top tier or close enough to it that they view him as a top 10-ish WR. Moving to Tyrell...

Two years in the league (started 11 games his sophomore season - assuming this will be 12 after the upcoming week):
2-90-1 (7* games, 6 targets, ypr 45*)
63-989-7 (15 games, 112 targets, ypr 15.7)

To be fair to the argument since his first year of the league throws off the numbers with an absurd ypr we'll use just this season...

If there is a glaring issue with Tyrell it is the main distinction between he and Keenan - percentage of targets he catches at only 55%. Looking just at his 2nd season's ypr, he averages 4 yards more per reception. So while the percentage is lower, his per target production is still higher (8.83 vs. 8.15). Obviously percentage is still a little more telling but the number is notable none-the-less. In terms of athleticism...6'4" and 204 and he ran a 4.43 40 time. I am not particularly a fan of the combine so is the faster time all that important? To some perhaps.

So what does it come down to between these two that somehow separates them? I have to think that many are basing it on draft pedigree. Keenan was a 3rd round pick. Tyrell was an UDFA. Maybe it is more elusive than numbers? Side by side, which one is the better WR? Probably Keenan. But I think people need to start realizing that Keenan isn't as good as they seem to think and give a lot more credit to Tyrell than they currently are. These two are close which is why I called them a 1a/1b. For me there is that elusive component to it...what the eyes tell you, I guess? When I watch Tyrell play I see a lot of the same of what Mike Evans brings to the field.

Just off-handedly dismissing the argument between the two makes no sense to me.

[Hambone]

I traded T.Hill and an early 3rd for Williams and a mid 2nd towards the end of the season - very happy I did it. In that offense, even with Allen back, he has lots of value....

[dblj1199]

I really like Allen, but can he stay healthy? I know he is highly productive when he plays, but there hasn't been another option in SD since he has been there. I can see Williams being a high end wr3 low end wr 2 next season.

[SanDiegoGuy]

He might be the toughest speculative choice this off season. His production totally comes down to how the dominoes fall above him. To me with everyone returning to health next season, there are just too many players that Rivers has to choose from each week. How would you ever know what week to play him. Is this week a Gates, Henry, Woodhead, Inman, Allen, or Benjamin week? If Benjamin and Woodhead were not in the picture in a year or two, then I would say Yes. I have him on my keeper team now and could keep him for $5 next season. But I also have Crowder, Montecrief, and Hill I can keep for $5. I even have Rishard Matthews, who I don't think is near as good as Williams, but at least you know Matthews is going to get plenty of targets each week since Titans are so WR poor.

Unless you have a dozen or so empty spots on your bench to just sit him and see what the future holds for the whole Charger receiving corp, I can't see when you would know to play him.

[Pancakes]

[/quote]

Agree. Haven't seen or heard that anywhere. I will say pretty confidently that he is already better than Travis Benjamin though, and the gap will only get larger between the two as Tyrell continues to develop. Dude was ridiculously raw coming out of college, and he is a prime candidate for the old "3rd year bump" that we all used to believe in and talk about before the 2014 WR class came in and changed all that, with expectations of immediate elite-ness being the new norm. At worst, I see him 3rd in targets behind Keenan and whichever TE is on the field on any given play. At best, I see him 2nd, behind only Keenan. That is, until Keenan gets hurt. Again.[/quote]

Nope, no one said it. I guess he is assuming that I am inferring it. But for argument's sake, let's hear the best arguments as to why this would be "laughable". I'd like to know what Keenan brings to the table that makes him SO MUCH better than Tyrell Williams. I'll start with the opposing viewpoint since I am the resident "hater" on Keenan Allen.

Four years in the league (started all but 1 game his rookie year):
71-1046-8 (15 games, 104 targets, ypr 14.7)
77-783-4 (14 games, 122 targets, ypr 10.2)
67-725-4 (8 games, 89 targets, ypr 10.8)
6-63 (1 game, 7 targets, ypr 10.6)

The primary thing that stands out with Keenan is the percentage of targets he catches at almost 69%. His career ypr is 11.8, buoyed by his rookie season as he's been consistently under 11 since that time. He also saw a regression from his rookie to his sophomore season. It was his 3rd year in the league that the majority of owners look at when basing their rankings - right or wrong - and the focus is on his targets at 11+ per game. In terms of his "athleticism" he is listed at 6'2" and 211 pounds and ran a 4.58 40 - not particularly fast for a WR but not a game breaker either as speed is only one aspect of the game. He doesn't have the physical play of a Dez Bryant or wing span of an Odell. He plays "small" for his size, not making much for a red zone target either. His game is about space.

And let's be clear...I don't dislike Keenan Allen. I think he is a fine receiver. What he is NOT is an elite talent. So in terms of "not close" to a Tyrell Williams, I assume there are plenty of people who must think he's either in the top tier or close enough to it that they view him as a top 10-ish WR. Moving to Tyrell...

Two years in the league (started 11 games his sophomore season - assuming this will be 12 after the upcoming week):
2-90-1 (7* games, 6 targets, ypr 45*)
63-989-7 (15 games, 112 targets, ypr 15.7)

To be fair to the argument since his first year of the league throws off the numbers with an absurd ypr we'll use just this season...

If there is a glaring issue with Tyrell it is the main distinction between he and Keenan - percentage of targets he catches at only 55%. Looking just at his 2nd season's ypr, he averages 4 yards more per reception. So while the percentage is lower, his per target production is still higher (8.83 vs. 8.15). Obviously percentage is still a little more telling but the number is notable none-the-less. In terms of athleticism...6'4" and 204 and he ran a 4.43 40 time. I am not particularly a fan of the combine so is the faster time all that important? To some perhaps.

So what does it come down to between these two that somehow separates them? I have to think that many are basing it on draft pedigree. Keenan was a 3rd round pick. Tyrell was an UDFA. Maybe it is more elusive than numbers? Side by side, which one is the better WR? Probably Keenan. But I think people need to start realizing that Keenan isn't as good as they seem to think and give a lot more credit to Tyrell than they currently are. These two are close which is why I called them a 1a/1b. For me there is that elusive component to it...what the eyes tell you, I guess? When I watch Tyrell play I see a lot of the same of what Mike Evans brings to the field.

Just off-handedly dismissing the argument between the two makes no sense to me.[/quote]

Agreed. Allen is a solid WR that belongs in the NFL as a #2 or #3 in an offense. Does not have the size or is athletic enough to be special in this league however. Tyrell has the makeup of a #1, with the TD potential.

Draft pedigree means jack bleep at this point, both having been in the league for at least a couple years.

[The Black Swordsman]

i own tyrell in a dynasty and if i could move him+a late first for the 1.01 or 1.02, i'd strongly consider it.

[Moto660]

Tyrell seems to be like Willie Snead. Worth more on my team than someone would be willing to pay.

[whaley88]

Tyrell seems to be like Willie Snead. Worth more on my team than someone would be willing to pay.

This exactly. I sold him and t hill off for kben and 2.6

[skip]

Tyrell seems to be like Willie Snead. Worth more on my team than someone would be willing to pay.

At least compare him to a Diggs or only as low as Moncrief. He isn't anything at all like Willie Snead.

[whaley88]

Tyrell seems to be like Willie Snead. Worth more on my team than someone would be willing to pay.

At least compare him to a Diggs or only as low as Moncrief. He isn't anything at all like Willie Snead.

It was.meant in the value way not a player comp.

[Dr.Graffin]

He'll be buried on the depth chart next year. I think he did well with his opportunity this year but I'm just not seeing it play out next year for him. I'd rather take chances on other players. I'd offer a high 3rd, but I doubt that anyone would take that. A mid 2nd seems like a fair going value.

[mrmagloo]

That is, until Keenan gets hurt. Again.[/quote]

KA truther, got to love it.