Does your keeper league allow this?

General discussion and team advice concerning Redraft & Keeper leagues.
Paul717
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Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby Paul717 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:59 am

Hi. My understanding of this website is that replies to other people's posts should be > new posts started. Since I now have 34 replies I thought it'd be ok for my first new topic. I hope it generates some discussion. Here goes:

I only play in 1 league, in signature below. It is a 16 league team where roster sizes are 24 and we keep 16 indefinitely and draft 8 players each year.

I am an admitted "fantasy hoarder", meaning, it is tough for me each year to pair down to 16 from 24. Ignore for now, that my roster isn't all that great. In past years it was relatively stronger. Still, "fantasy hoarder" is someone who can make the case (at least to themselves) that each and every player on that roster is worth keeping.

So to combat this trait of mine, in past years I would make trades such as this:

My team sends D. Watson [basically, insert young / valuable player name X] and a 2019 3rd round pick to Team B. Team B keeps Watson through the "keeper declaration day" and trades him back to me before the draft.

Essentially, this was a way for me to get an "extra keeper" without actually "trading for a keeper", since exactly 16 are allowed per team. And it was a way for other teams to get an extra draft pick if they didn't have 16 players that they loved and wanted to keep.

Eventually, someone in my league got pissed off and put these sort of trades up for a vote. And it was voted 9-7 before the 2014 season to NOT allow these types of trades anymore. I would argue that as long as there were teams willing to keep < 16 players and receive draft picks as compensation, that it was a valuable tool. But I couldn't make the argument strong enough, apparently.

So: Does your keeper league allow for trades which effectively allow teams to alter the number of keepers they can keep?

Appreciate any and all feedback!
"Marathon Square" - 16 team full PPR league with 24 player roster. Keep 16 per year indefinitely, draft 8. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 Team DST
QB: Jordan Love, Deshaun Watson
RB: Travis Etienne, Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, Kendre Miller, Jaleel McLaughlin, Sean Tucker, Deuce Vaughn
WR: A.J. Brown, Garrett Wilson, Tee Higgins, Calvin Ridley, Michael Wilson, Kendrick Bourne, Tutu Atwell, Allen Lazard, Isaiah Hodgins, Xavier Hutchinson
TE: T.J. Hockenson, Cole Kmet, Kylen Granson
K: Didn't make the playoffs in 2023 :cry: , and don't usually hold one in the offseason
Team DST: Cowboys, Lions

Picks:
2024: All my picks except 3rd rounder

Disclaimer: My one and only Championship in this league was way back in 2011. Therefore, take my replies with the appropriate grain of salt. :lol:

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moishetreats
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby moishetreats » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:56 pm

Hells, no!!!

That's a rental player, i.e., a form of collusion.

Good try, though :).

And welcome to the forums!
10 tms 27 plrs PPR
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball

QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble

2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th



12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball

QB: Lawrence (contract through 2026), Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Bijan Robinson ('25), Pollard ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $186

IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --

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lukkynumber13
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby lukkynumber13 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:04 pm

Is it really collusion tho? Isn’t he paying for the roster spot? He’s giving up something of value (a pick) in exchange for something of value (a roster spot)

Soiunds like a trade to me.

Am I missing something?
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
/
TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
/
TEAM C - 14T, SF (Joined in 22)
GENO
HENRY/A JONES, Gus E
HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
/
TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
BIJAN/BREECE/POLLARD
CHASE/DIGGS/G WILSON/AIYUK, DJM, Pittman
KITTLE, Goedert
/
TEAM E - 14T, SF, 2TE (Started in 22)
MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
/
TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
/
TEAM G - 12T, SF & TEP (Joined in 23)
HERBERT/TUA, Kyler
BIJAN/MIXON, Spears, J Warren
JJ/G WILSON/WADDLE/OLAVE, Godwin, J Reed
LAPORTA

Paul717
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby Paul717 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:23 am

lukkynumber13 wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:04 pm Is it really collusion tho? Isn’t he paying for the roster spot? He’s giving up something of value (a pick) in exchange for something of value (a roster spot)

Soiunds like a trade to me.

Am I missing something?
Appreciate the dialogue fellas! I always interpreted it as a fair trade, but I can see how one can view it as a rental. Clearly, 9 people in my league also felt opposed to this idea. To be clear, in season, we don't allow trades or "trade backs" that result in "short term rentals". This is only in the run up to the draft.

I've heard about other leagues in this forum where the number of keepers / picks for each team can vary depending on team preferences year to year. That sounds cool. Additionally, the "hoarding problem" is probably mitigated for leagues where more than 16 players are kept. For example if my league kept 20 players instead of 16 I probably wouldn't have as many "tough cuts" each year.
"Marathon Square" - 16 team full PPR league with 24 player roster. Keep 16 per year indefinitely, draft 8. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 Team DST
QB: Jordan Love, Deshaun Watson
RB: Travis Etienne, Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, Kendre Miller, Jaleel McLaughlin, Sean Tucker, Deuce Vaughn
WR: A.J. Brown, Garrett Wilson, Tee Higgins, Calvin Ridley, Michael Wilson, Kendrick Bourne, Tutu Atwell, Allen Lazard, Isaiah Hodgins, Xavier Hutchinson
TE: T.J. Hockenson, Cole Kmet, Kylen Granson
K: Didn't make the playoffs in 2023 :cry: , and don't usually hold one in the offseason
Team DST: Cowboys, Lions

Picks:
2024: All my picks except 3rd rounder

Disclaimer: My one and only Championship in this league was way back in 2011. Therefore, take my replies with the appropriate grain of salt. :lol:

Paul717
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby Paul717 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:24 am

And welcome to the forums!
[/quote]

Thank you!
"Marathon Square" - 16 team full PPR league with 24 player roster. Keep 16 per year indefinitely, draft 8. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 Team DST
QB: Jordan Love, Deshaun Watson
RB: Travis Etienne, Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, Kendre Miller, Jaleel McLaughlin, Sean Tucker, Deuce Vaughn
WR: A.J. Brown, Garrett Wilson, Tee Higgins, Calvin Ridley, Michael Wilson, Kendrick Bourne, Tutu Atwell, Allen Lazard, Isaiah Hodgins, Xavier Hutchinson
TE: T.J. Hockenson, Cole Kmet, Kylen Granson
K: Didn't make the playoffs in 2023 :cry: , and don't usually hold one in the offseason
Team DST: Cowboys, Lions

Picks:
2024: All my picks except 3rd rounder

Disclaimer: My one and only Championship in this league was way back in 2011. Therefore, take my replies with the appropriate grain of salt. :lol:

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moishetreats
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby moishetreats » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:23 am

lukkynumber13 wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:04 pm Is it really collusion tho? Isn’t he paying for the roster spot? He’s giving up something of value (a pick) in exchange for something of value (a roster spot)

Soiunds like a trade to me.

Am I missing something?
I think that you'd need to make a two-for-one trade to open up a roster spot.

As you wrote it, it's even more clearly problematic in my eyes: trades need to be for something tangible (i.e., a player or a pick) and not for something amorphous (a roster spot).
10 tms 27 plrs PPR
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball

QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble

2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th



12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball

QB: Lawrence (contract through 2026), Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Bijan Robinson ('25), Pollard ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $186

IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --

Paul717
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby Paul717 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:41 am

moishetreats wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:23 am
lukkynumber13 wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:04 pm Is it really collusion tho? Isn’t he paying for the roster spot? He’s giving up something of value (a pick) in exchange for something of value (a roster spot)

Soiunds like a trade to me.

Am I missing something?
I think that you'd need to make a two-for-one trade to open up a roster spot.

As you wrote it, it's even more clearly problematic in my eyes: trades need to be for something tangible (i.e., a player or a pick) and not for something amorphous (a roster spot).
The dynamics work as follows:

I trade the player and a pick. "Keeper Declaration Day" comes around. The other team indicates on the website which 16 players they will keep, including the player I traded them. Separately, I indicate on the website which 16 players I will keep, a list that does not include the player I traded.

CBS website does the "roster cuts" overnight or at midnight a few days before our draft. After that, both teams have 16 keepers. He then trades me back my player. Er...I guess as I write it, it sounds shady but remember; I gave up a valuable pick for that swap. Lol.
"Marathon Square" - 16 team full PPR league with 24 player roster. Keep 16 per year indefinitely, draft 8. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 Team DST
QB: Jordan Love, Deshaun Watson
RB: Travis Etienne, Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, Kendre Miller, Jaleel McLaughlin, Sean Tucker, Deuce Vaughn
WR: A.J. Brown, Garrett Wilson, Tee Higgins, Calvin Ridley, Michael Wilson, Kendrick Bourne, Tutu Atwell, Allen Lazard, Isaiah Hodgins, Xavier Hutchinson
TE: T.J. Hockenson, Cole Kmet, Kylen Granson
K: Didn't make the playoffs in 2023 :cry: , and don't usually hold one in the offseason
Team DST: Cowboys, Lions

Picks:
2024: All my picks except 3rd rounder

Disclaimer: My one and only Championship in this league was way back in 2011. Therefore, take my replies with the appropriate grain of salt. :lol:

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moishetreats
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby moishetreats » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:08 am

Paul717 wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:41 am
moishetreats wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:23 am
lukkynumber13 wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:04 pm Is it really collusion tho? Isn’t he paying for the roster spot? He’s giving up something of value (a pick) in exchange for something of value (a roster spot)

Soiunds like a trade to me.

Am I missing something?
I think that you'd need to make a two-for-one trade to open up a roster spot.

As you wrote it, it's even more clearly problematic in my eyes: trades need to be for something tangible (i.e., a player or a pick) and not for something amorphous (a roster spot).
The dynamics work as follows:

I trade the player and a pick. "Keeper Declaration Day" comes around. The other team indicates on the website which 16 players they will keep, including the player I traded them. Separately, I indicate on the website which 16 players I will keep, a list that does not include the player I traded.

CBS website does the "roster cuts" overnight or at midnight a few days before our draft. After that, both teams have 16 keepers. He then trades me back my player. Er...I guess as I write it, it sounds shady but remember; I gave up a valuable pick for that swap. Lol.
So, um, yeah... collusion...? :D
10 tms 27 plrs PPR
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball

QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble

2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th



12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball

QB: Lawrence (contract through 2026), Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Bijan Robinson ('25), Pollard ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $186

IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --

honcho55
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby honcho55 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:29 pm

I don’t see this as collusion at all. Then again I don’t see “rental players” as a problem either. As long as both owners are legitimately making a move that they feel benefits their team. Maybe the trading partner in OPs scenario doesn’t have 16 guys he cares to keep, and that 3rd is worth more. I don’t see why this is a no no, personally.

That said if a league specifically has rules against this I’m fine with that.
main league, half PPR, all TDs 6, -3 for INT
12 team. 2019 champ, 2020 runner up, ‘21 3rd
start 2SF, 2RB, 2WR, 1TE, 2WRT

QB: T Lawrence, K Cousins, R Wilson, Z Wilson
RB: K Walker, T Ettiene, JK Dobbins, D Gore, J Hasty, D Johnson, L Rountree
WR: JJ, AJB, A Cooper, Juju, C Kirk, J Dotson, N Westbrook-Ikhine, I McKenzie
TE. T Kelce, Pitts, Albert O, D Parham, J O’Shaunessy

1.03, 1.11, 2.02, 2.09
Extra 24 1st

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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby Paul717 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:09 am

honcho55 wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:29 pm I don’t see this as collusion at all. Then again I don’t see “rental players” as a problem either. As long as both owners are legitimately making a move that they feel benefits their team. Maybe the trading partner in OPs scenario doesn’t have 16 guys he cares to keep, and that 3rd is worth more. I don’t see why this is a no no, personally.

That said if a league specifically has rules against this I’m fine with that.
Appreciate the feedback. I keep asking for this item to be brought up again for a vote, but somehow it keeps getting missed. It might sound crazy to some but picking say the last 2-4 keepers out of a list of ~8 is no easy task for me. Hopefully with this website and insight from others the keeper decisions will get easier for me.
"Marathon Square" - 16 team full PPR league with 24 player roster. Keep 16 per year indefinitely, draft 8. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 Team DST
QB: Jordan Love, Deshaun Watson
RB: Travis Etienne, Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, Kendre Miller, Jaleel McLaughlin, Sean Tucker, Deuce Vaughn
WR: A.J. Brown, Garrett Wilson, Tee Higgins, Calvin Ridley, Michael Wilson, Kendrick Bourne, Tutu Atwell, Allen Lazard, Isaiah Hodgins, Xavier Hutchinson
TE: T.J. Hockenson, Cole Kmet, Kylen Granson
K: Didn't make the playoffs in 2023 :cry: , and don't usually hold one in the offseason
Team DST: Cowboys, Lions

Picks:
2024: All my picks except 3rd rounder

Disclaimer: My one and only Championship in this league was way back in 2011. Therefore, take my replies with the appropriate grain of salt. :lol:

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raiders444
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby raiders444 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:50 am

I was always happy to take your extra draft pick(s) in exchange for rostering Marion Grice :wave:
Team 1 - 16 TEAM PPR - 1 QB / 2 RB / 3 WR / 1 TE / 1 D/ST / 1 K
QB: Lamar Jackson, Malik Willis, Sam Howell
RB: Saquon Barkley, Ken Walker, Michael Carter, Khalil Herbert, Keontay Ingram
WR: Chris Godwin, Christian Kirk, Josh Palmer, Terrace Marshall, Christian Watson, John Metchie, Mack Hollins
TE: Kyle Pitts, Chiggie Okonkwo
K: Justin Tucker
D/ST: Titans, Falcons

Paul717
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Re: Does your keeper league allow this?

Postby Paul717 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:48 am

raiders444 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:50 am I was always happy to take your extra draft pick(s) in exchange for rostering Marion Grice :wave:
Lol. Please let's vote on allowing it again then! Make it happen Commish.
"Marathon Square" - 16 team full PPR league with 24 player roster. Keep 16 per year indefinitely, draft 8. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 Team DST
QB: Jordan Love, Deshaun Watson
RB: Travis Etienne, Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, Kendre Miller, Jaleel McLaughlin, Sean Tucker, Deuce Vaughn
WR: A.J. Brown, Garrett Wilson, Tee Higgins, Calvin Ridley, Michael Wilson, Kendrick Bourne, Tutu Atwell, Allen Lazard, Isaiah Hodgins, Xavier Hutchinson
TE: T.J. Hockenson, Cole Kmet, Kylen Granson
K: Didn't make the playoffs in 2023 :cry: , and don't usually hold one in the offseason
Team DST: Cowboys, Lions

Picks:
2024: All my picks except 3rd rounder

Disclaimer: My one and only Championship in this league was way back in 2011. Therefore, take my replies with the appropriate grain of salt. :lol:


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