Torrey Smith

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jordanzs
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Torrey Smith

Postby jordanzs » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:27 pm

Just checking to see how everyone is ranking him now.

I've heard nothing but good things about him in camp.
Ravens rookie WR Torrey Smith has shown a "knack for getting behind cornerbacks on deep routes" in training camp.
He's also turned quick passes into big gains. It's good to hear Smith is making progress, as he was sidelined early in camp with a hamstring tweak. The Ravens are hoping he makes an impact similar to Mike Wallace's with Pittsburgh two years ago.
Also read that Boldin is mentoring the young WRs & grooming them to start this year.

Has he passed Hankerson & Cobb yet in value?

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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby thriftyrocker » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:19 pm

They're also projecting him to start (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ ... on_10.html). Hankerson and Cobb have little chance to start.

Cobb is probably getting more positive pub than Torrey. Can he beat out all those guys in front of him and start by 2012? It's possible but a gamble.

Some news about Ravens not being afraid to sign another WR, but if it's a guy like Cotchery I think they fit in better as a 3rd or bench player and wouldn't threaten his PT.

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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby Misfit74 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:42 pm

I'm starting to think Torrey Smith has passed Hankerson in value but have to reel myself back in. A handful of drops in practice for Hankerson and a couple good reports on Torrey Smith aren't enough to go crazy over. That said, arrow up for T.Smith and arrow down for Hankerson, who is suffering from the very thing I blasted him about in our previous discussions. I still like Hankerson because he's not a deep-threat only type, but I'm a little less confident in him than before.

Glad I drafted Baldwin, Little, or Vereen before Hankerson in all my drafts. The only team I have Hankerson on is due to getting him at 2.12!
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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby melish1631 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:33 pm

Barring Baltimore signing a veteran WR...I like TSmith 's chances of contributing this season! I just go back to the reason he was drafted - to take the cover off of the coverage, add speed etc...at the very least he'll be in on 3rd downs and 3 WR sets. Again, that's as of today and right now they don't have a deep corps!
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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby jordanzs » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:50 pm

I don't see any reason why Torrey won't be The Raven's version of Mike Wallace.

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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby skip » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:07 pm

Smith and Hankerson have been neck and neck based on preference. I don't think Cobb has ever been in front of either.
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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby yumbo » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:07 am

I always had Smith ranked higher than Hankerson, but that may be just personal preference more than difference in talent. The fact that the news of the two from training camp is encouraging for me and other Smith owners, it is by no means indicitive of how their rookie seasons may go.
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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby SpeedKills4914 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:36 am

This certainly helps:
The Ravens will not offer a contract to former Jets WR Jerricho Cotchery, reports the Carroll County Times. Cotchery had offseason back surgery and failed his exit physical. One reason for this is Baltimore is pleased with rookie WR Torrey Smith , who's exceeded expectations during camp.
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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby jordanzs » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:27 am

Here is someone else's post from a month ago:
Non-PPR... I'll take the big body WR who will be a red zone threat that has a huge pass catch radius in Baldwin. Hankerson I like too, but his dropping balls makes me not like him as much as Baldwin. T.Smith catching balls with his forearms and not being great at tracking the long ball over his shoulder scares me for a deep threat
And I'm sure I can dig up other posts that compare him to DHB (the Maryland connection), and other posts about him being a raw prospect, not knowing how to run routes, trapping the ball with his body, etc etc.

The thing with all rookies, is that there is no black or white. Every rookie is a shade of grey. They have positives, and they have negatives. And in May to July we basically add up the positives, subtract the negatives, and that gives us the calculated risk of drafting a player where we did.

Look at the rookie draft thread and you'll see MANY instances where Torrey went behind Baldwin, Hankerson, etc etc. I've seen him last until the mid to late 2nd round. Why is that? Well it was because the negatives listed above (raw, catches with his body, can't run routes) are hard to ignore, and they increase the chance of a bust.

However, now that preseason is in full gear, if he's proving that those negatives can be erased, there's a whole lot of positive that remains (size, speed, strength, character, TEAM NEED).

I'm not saying that Torrey = Tampa Mike, but Tampa Mike was in a very similar situation last year. There were lots of positives & lots of negatives causing his ADP to be early 2nd round last May & June, however, once training camp fed into preseason, he erased the negatives & look at what happened to his ADP in mid to late August rookie drafts.

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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby Misfit74 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:51 am

jordanzs wrote:Here is someone else's post from a month ago:
Non-PPR... I'll take the big body WR who will be a red zone threat that has a huge pass catch radius in Baldwin. Hankerson I like too, but his dropping balls makes me not like him as much as Baldwin. T.Smith catching balls with his forearms and not being great at tracking the long ball over his shoulder scares me for a deep threat
And I'm sure I can dig up other posts that compare him to DHB (the Maryland connection), and other posts about him being a raw prospect, not knowing how to run routes, trapping the ball with his body, etc etc.

The thing with all rookies, is that there is no black or white. Every rookie is a shade of grey. They have positives, and they have negatives. And in May to July we basically add up the positives, subtract the negatives, and that gives us the calculated risk of drafting a player where we did.

Look at the rookie draft thread and you'll see MANY instances where Torrey went behind Baldwin, Hankerson, etc etc. I've seen him last until the mid to late 2nd round. Why is that? Well it was because the negatives listed above (raw, catches with his body, can't run routes) are hard to ignore, and they increase the chance of a bust.

However, now that preseason is in full gear, if he's proving that those negatives can be erased, there's a whole lot of positive that remains (size, speed, strength, character, TEAM NEED).

I'm not saying that Torrey = Tampa Mike, but Tampa Mike was in a very similar situation last year. There were lots of positives & lots of negatives causing his ADP to be early 2nd round last May & June, however, once training camp fed into preseason, he erased the negatives & look at what happened to his ADP in mid to late August rookie drafts.
I see your point about weighing things out well enough, but I have to disagree on the Tampa Mike example. Tampa Mike's 'negatives' were almost exclusively/entirely off-the-field (his head). He had always had first-round type ability - size, speed, hands, play-making ability, leaping ability to high-point the ball, presence of sidelines/endzone, etc. That's why for some of us he was easier to take an (early) flyer on. I drafted him tail end of round 1, way ahead of his general ADP at the time of that particular draft. I had a team that could absorb the risk fairly easily and liked his physical skill-set and talent - IF he could stay focused mentally.

The key difference here is that Williams' only glaring weakness was above his shoulders. Torrey Smith has several shortcomings as a WR on-the-field. He has speed to burn and that's mostly his selling point. Generally, deep-threat types only begin to have value if they can develop other areas of their game. As raw as Torrey was coming out, that may take some time, as with any WR more often than not. Players that are not natural catchers of the ball turn me off a bit. I thought Torrey struggled in that area like Hankerson is struggling now. So, I guess time will tell. I think there is a huge difference between T.Smith's issues and Tampa Mike's issues as a prospect. I avoided T.Smith in every draft, though would have taken him if he fell far enough. I went after Mike Williams like a bulldog. That doesn't mean I'm right about anything. Torrey will need some time before we know the answers that Tampa Mike clarified a lot in just his rookie season.
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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby jordanzs » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:02 am

^^ Yes I agree about Torrey's negatives being different from Tampa Mike's negatives. But negatives are still negatives & weigh in on draft decisions.

Tampa Mike had another big negative though, and that was the fact that Arreleous Benn was considered a top 3 WR prospect last year (Dez, Demaryius, Benn were the top 3) and was drafted by the Bucs in round 2. I think that was his biggest negative, as everyone thought Benn would be the #1.

Bottom line though, Tampa Mike's negatives were overcomeable.

Torrey's negatives are overcomeable.

Dexter MCluster's size isn't overcomeable. Of course some little guys can be productive, but he's never going to be an AJ Green or Julio Jones.

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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby lake3711 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:53 pm

I dont think this changes Torrey Smith's value much. I would still take Baldwin and Little ahead of Torrey Smith. I would take Torrey Smith ahead of Hankerson because I think Hankerson was just a pre-draft hype. He was drafted in the 4th round.

The news on Torrey Smith is a positive sign. Its way too early to annoint him as anything, especially since he is a raw route runner. But this is encouraging, and you can feel confident using a 2nd rounder on Torrey Smith.
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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby nightmarion » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:47 am

Well, first pre-season game under his belt and not a catch. Of course that may have something to do with a guy named Nnamdi shadowing him....
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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby dlf_ericd » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:09 am

jordanzs wrote:Here is someone else's post from a month ago:
Non-PPR... I'll take the big body WR who will be a red zone threat that has a huge pass catch radius in Baldwin. Hankerson I like too, but his dropping balls makes me not like him as much as Baldwin. T.Smith catching balls with his forearms and not being great at tracking the long ball over his shoulder scares me for a deep threat
And I'm sure I can dig up other posts that compare him to DHB (the Maryland connection), and other posts about him being a raw prospect, not knowing how to run routes, trapping the ball with his body, etc etc.

The thing with all rookies, is that there is no black or white. Every rookie is a shade of grey. They have positives, and they have negatives. And in May to July we basically add up the positives, subtract the negatives, and that gives us the calculated risk of drafting a player where we did.

Look at the rookie draft thread and you'll see MANY instances where Torrey went behind Baldwin, Hankerson, etc etc. I've seen him last until the mid to late 2nd round. Why is that? Well it was because the negatives listed above (raw, catches with his body, can't run routes) are hard to ignore, and they increase the chance of a bust.

However, now that preseason is in full gear, if he's proving that those negatives can be erased, there's a whole lot of positive that remains (size, speed, strength, character, TEAM NEED).

I'm not saying that Torrey = Tampa Mike, but Tampa Mike was in a very similar situation last year. There were lots of positives & lots of negatives causing his ADP to be early 2nd round last May & June, however, once training camp fed into preseason, he erased the negatives & look at what happened to his ADP in mid to late August rookie drafts.
Regardless of agreeing about Smith vs Tampa Mike (I'm actually w/ Misfit on this one), this is very well written and is a great reminder of the cause/effect of rookie drafting and ADP. Love these kind of posts because it makes me pause, think, and evaluate what I believe versus what is presented. Nice job!
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Re: Torrey Smith

Postby JM4Steelers » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:13 am

I like Tandon Doss better myself.


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