Auction start up logistics

[zdhaugen]

After all the awesome answers you guys have given, I think these are my remaining questions:

1. Do top players got for less money than traditional auctions as there are many more roster spots to fill? Or does the money just run out earlier in the process for most teams?
2. When should I expect/plan on most of the bids going down to 1 dollar nominations?
3. If the last 8-10 rounds are all just 1 bid nominations it seems unfair that auctions are not snake format for nominations? Has anybody had problems with that?
4. Are there any good resources for Average Auction Value (AAV) related specifically to dynasty?

[rubber_duck]

say you want Zeke or Barkley and Julio or AB... all 4 are up at the same time, and you are trying to bid on each but end up with both RB or neither as all the timers would likely expire at different times(?)

It's a cool thought, not sure if feasible though. To OP, definitely do an auction to start and read up on the strategies there. I always enjoy throwing up a mix of players I dont want early on to see if people will overbid early on. I'd recommend splitting the draft into 2 days also. I'd do 100 the first day as the top players will take longer and the last 200 will be shorter bids and people will just be filling out rosters at that time. Good luck!

These are great points about having bids on guys you might not ultimately want. I also like the idea of two days,but would have to find two days that work for everyone and are close together. It can be hard enough to find one sometimes. Do you have any favorite resources for dynasty auction research?
[/quote]

OP - If I am understanding your first post correctly, you are starting up a dynasty league with an auction (instead of a draft) but it will NOT be a salary cap league. Is that right?

Assuming it is, let me throw this idea out there ...
Because you're starting a dynasty league and have a group of people wanting to do an auction instead of a draft, there is an option for your league format that does not exist for redraft leagues. This new league could do auctions every year instead of rookie drafts, but NOT have a salary cap. Just continue to repeat the process you are going to do for the initial veteran auction each year for the rookies.

Why do this? Because auctions are more fun than drafts, so why not do them every year? Also, without a salary cap it will function in a similar way to a draft league ... you own those players just as you do if you drafted them.

There is one really big benefit to this, though. Because it is a dynasty league with an auction (non-cap), the owners would not be required to spend all of their money each auction. It would not have to be a "use it or lose it" situation. Each team could simply save some cash for future auctions.

I have been in a league that functions this way, and we just finished our 14th season. It is far and away the best league I have ever been involved in.

[rubber_duck]

Oh ... I almost forgot.

I would also recommend you give each team a lot of money. $500 per team works, but $5,000 per team is better. Because each team gets more money, it doesn't change the relative valuations of the players. So Gurley may cost $100 in the first league, and $1,000 in the other league.

However, giving each owner more money has a big effect during the middle and end of the auction when the player values are lower. For example: let's say Kenny Stills and Crabtree are both selling for the minimum $5 in the first league. If all the owners have more money, then you may see Crabtree sell for $35 and Stills go for $58.

Just a suggestion.

[Jigga94]

After all the awesome answers you guys have given, I think these are my remaining questions:

1. Do top players got for less money than traditional auctions as there are many more roster spots to fill? Or does the money just run out earlier in the process for most teams?
2. When should I expect/plan on most of the bids going down to 1 dollar nominations?
3. If the last 8-10 rounds are all just 1 bid nominations it seems unfair that auctions are not snake format for nominations? Has anybody had problems with that?
4. Are there any good resources for Average Auction Value (AAV) related specifically to dynasty?

1. Generally, the % of value the top players cost is the same... The fallout is when the 100th ranked player goes for $1 in a smaller league (200 players) vs the same player going for $1 in a 400 player league. The value there is obviously in getting the 100th ranked player for the same price you have to spend on a 400th ranked guy... I think you try to combat this with a higher cap, the bigger the league, but the % allotted to top players should be relatively the same. Once everyone is out, that's where the value comes in and it's basically a snake draft

2. Kind of answered that above, but I would do a few basic mocks and you will see the area it falls off in. Some players will be conservative though and still be able to bid 2 on a lot of guys they want. However, having a lot of those guys over a stud, isn't a good idea...

3. Should be snake in my opinion, but rankings are all vastly different and when it gets to that late, it shouldn't matter too much

4. Not sure about dynasty. I know ESPN does a ton of mock auctions but that's for redraft. You should be able to get the general feel for the %s alloted there though, just adjust your rankings accordingly

[Jigga94]

Oh ... I almost forgot.

I would also recommend you give each team a lot of money. $500 per team works, but $5,000 per team is better. Because each team gets more money, it doesn't change the relative valuations of the players. So Gurley may cost $100 in the first league, and $1,000 in the other league.

However, giving each owner more money has a big effect during the middle and end of the auction when the player values are lower. For example: let's say Kenny Stills and Crabtree are both selling for the minimum $5 in the first league. If all the owners have more money, then you may see Crabtree sell for $35 and Stills go for $58.

Just a suggestion.

This. 100% it's what I referred to above, but this lays it out well. The more money, the better. Although this will extend the draft if people are bidding on guys like Kenny Stills lol

[zdhaugen]

Oh ... I almost forgot.

I would also recommend you give each team a lot of money. $500 per team works, but $5,000 per team is better. Because each team gets more money, it doesn't change the relative valuations of the players. So Gurley may cost $100 in the first league, and $1,000 in the other league.

However, giving each owner more money has a big effect during the middle and end of the auction when the player values are lower. For example: let's say Kenny Stills and Crabtree are both selling for the minimum $5 in the first league. If all the owners have more money, then you may see Crabtree sell for $35 and Stills go for $58.

Just a suggestion.

I really like this idea of the larger amounts. For example if I do 2,000 instead of 200 then it will be really easy to do the match on how much to spend compared to AAV. But at the end it will give more flexibility of bidding 4 or 5 instead of 1. Thanks for this. Also the auction rookie sounds fun, but I think rookie drafts should allow worse teams the chance to help themselves. And trading auction money is harder to track than trading draft picks.

[zdhaugen]

1. Generally, the % of value the top players cost is the same... The fallout is when the 100th ranked player goes for $1 in a smaller league (200 players) vs the same player going for $1 in a 400 player league. The value there is obviously in getting the 100th ranked player for the same price you have to spend on a 400th ranked guy... I think you try to combat this with a higher cap, the bigger the league, but the % allotted to top players should be relatively the same. Once everyone is out, that's where the value comes in and it's basically a snake draft

2. Kind of answered that above, but I would do a few basic mocks and you will see the area it falls off in. Some players will be conservative though and still be able to bid 2 on a lot of guys they want. However, having a lot of those guys over a stud, isn't a good idea...

3. Should be snake in my opinion, but rankings are all vastly different and when it gets to that late, it shouldn't matter too much

4. Not sure about dynasty. I know ESPN does a ton of mock auctions but that's for redraft. You should be able to get the general feel for the %s alloted there though, just adjust your rankings accordingly

1. I like the higher cap idea, I think I will try and do that
2/4. Do you know where I could do auction mock drafts that last 20+ rounds? Or if that exists?
3. I agree a snake would make more sense, but I don't know if most platforms allow you to switch to snake nomination process do they?

Thanks for the help!

[moishetreats]

I have some slightly different thoughts to your questions than the answers posted.

After all the awesome answers you guys have given, I think these are my remaining questions:

1. Do top players got for less money than traditional auctions as there are many more roster spots to fill? Or does the money just run out earlier in the process for most teams?
2. When should I expect/plan on most of the bids going down to 1 dollar nominations?
3. If the last 8-10 rounds are all just 1 bid nominations it seems unfair that auctions are not snake format for nominations? Has anybody had problems with that?

1. No way to know. Honestly. The beauty of any draft/auction is the unpredictability. Every person has a different approach, and every league has a different collection of people. And every year is different. We're back at a time when a few stud RBs seem to be commanding top dollar; a few years ago, there might not have been a single RB in some people's top-10. What do you do with Mahomes, Kelce, Ertz, or Kittle? And myriad auction strategies are out there.

So, maybe some will go all-in on the studs vs. duds approach, creating some value in the middle tiers. Maybe most will look for depth, creating opportunities at the top-end. Just no way to know.

Put it simply: Enjoy the auction!!!

2. See answer to #1: No way to know! It also depends how big your starting amount is. The more the starting amount, the later it will likely be that bids get down to $1, and the longer the auction will take. Just some things to keep in mind!!

3. Just keep the auction going. Doesn't make sense to guess when it will happen.

I would also recommend you give each team a lot of money. $500 per team works, but $5,000 per team is better. Because each team gets more money, it doesn't change the relative valuations of the players. So Gurley may cost $100 in the first league, and $1,000 in the other league.

However, giving each owner more money has a big effect during the middle and end of the auction when the player values are lower. For example: let's say Kenny Stills and Crabtree are both selling for the minimum $5 in the first league. If all the owners have more money, then you may see Crabtree sell for $35 and Stills go for $58.

Just a suggestion.

I don't love this. As noted above, it does affect the end of the auction and the length. In addition, having more money makes the auction bidding take longer. Think about how often a player up for bid is down to two bidders. They each hit +1 three times until one bails. With a $5,000 auction budget, think now about how often the rest of the league will be watching the final two bidders on each player keep clicking the +1 button!!

But, even more, I disagree that it won't change the relative valuations of the players. In fact, I think that it's the opposite: The more money you have, the more the players' value WILL change. If I have $100 and I know that I want 3/4 my team (give or take) to be more than the minimum $1 player, that creates a hard cap of how high I can go. If I have $1,000, though, then I can spend a far higher percentage on the top players while still having enough to bid more than minimum on most of my players.

Put it this way: Say that I want to have ten players at $1 and plan for 20 to be at $2 or more. If the cap is $100, then I need to reserve 10% of my cap for those 10 players and can use 90% for the rest.

Now, say that the cap is $1,000. I only need to reserve 1% of my cap for the 10 minimum-salary players and can use 99% for the rest. Obviously, some of that 9% extra will go to the top-of-the-board players. The guy that goes for $25 of a $100 cap will almost assuredly NOT go for $250 in a $1,000 cap*.

*In theory, he should go for more. In practice, though, he might go for less. Why? Some people -- especially those new to an auction!! -- might consider $25 not to be too expensive but $250 to be too much. Mathematically and logically, that makes no sense. But, it is likely to happen.

Put all this together, and I'd save higher-cap auctions for those with more experience. I don't recall how many spots are in the league. If you have around 25-30, then I'd start around the $300 mark for the auction, not more than $500 and not less than $200. That's more than enough to allow everyone to employ a real and different auction strategy without creating large and potentially overwhelming numbers.

[zdhaugen]

I don't love this. As noted above, it does affect the end of the auction and the length. In addition, having more money makes the auction bidding take longer. Think about how often a player up for bid is down to two bidders. They each hit +1 three times until one bails. With a $5,000 auction budget, think now about how often the rest of the league will be watching the final two bidders on each player keep clicking the +1 button!!

But, even more, I disagree that it won't change the relative valuations of the players. In fact, I think that it's the opposite: The more money you have, the more the players' value WILL change. If I have $100 and I know that I want 3/4 my team (give or take) to be more than the minimum $1 player, that creates a hard cap of how high I can go. If I have $1,000, though, then I can spend a far higher percentage on the top players while still having enough to bid more than minimum on most of my players.

Put it this way: Say that I want to have ten players at $1 and plan for 20 to be at $2 or more. If the cap is $100, then I need to reserve 10% of my cap for those 10 players and can use 90% for the rest.

Now, say that the cap is $1,000. I only need to reserve 1% of my cap for the 10 minimum-salary players and can use 99% for the rest. Obviously, some of that 9% extra will go to the top-of-the-board players. The guy that goes for $25 of a $100 cap will almost assuredly NOT go for $250 in a $1,000 cap*.

*In theory, he should go for more. In practice, though, he might go for less. Why? Some people -- especially those new to an auction!! -- might consider $25 not to be too expensive but $250 to be too much. Mathematically and logically, that makes no sense. But, it is likely to happen.

Put all this together, and I'd save higher-cap auctions for those with more experience. I don't recall how many spots are in the league. If you have around 25-30, then I'd start around the $300 mark for the auction, not more than $500 and not less than $200. That's more than enough to allow everyone to employ a real and different auction strategy without creating large and potentially overwhelming numbers.

These are certainly good points. I am not sure I want the draft to take longer than it already will. I actually like the volatility in player value vs a bunch of guys going for the minimum, but perhaps it would be easier in the end to keep it simple and efficient as possible.

[rubber_duck]

Also the auction rookie sounds fun, but I think rookie drafts should allow worse teams the chance to help themselves. And trading auction money is harder to track than trading draft picks.

My favorite league just wrapped up its 14th season and we use rookie auctions instead of drafts. Your concern about helping bad teams improve is solved by giving the bad teams more fantasy money than the good teams. It can be as simple as:

Team Rank____Rookie Pick_____Auction Money
===================================
12th__________1.01____________$200
11th__________1.02____________$185
.
.
.
2nd__________1.11____________$110
1st__________1.12_____________$100

We have made adjustments to the fantasy payouts a few times over the years.

The issue of tracking the trades is real. Almost every trade in our league involves some amount of cash along with players. Using cash instead of draft picks makes finding a fair deal much easier. However, it is more work for the commissioner since he needs to adjust the fantasy bank accounts for nearly every trade. Our commissioners have not minded doing this in the past, but maybe yours would?

[honcho55]

Seems like a good place to plop my WIP league me and some local guys are setting up.

10 team SF deep starting rosters. Auction startup, can keep as many or as few as you like next year, for X% of their price last year (TBD)

Thinking of kinda sorta mimicking the NFL draft and make it three sessions.

Day one: 3 rounds of standard snake nominations. Get your studs

Day two: get most of the non 1$ players done, likely in a multiple open bid format. Maybe 5-6 guys up at all times.

Day three: back to standard snake nomination: should mostly function as a fairly quick snake draft.

Couple reasons this works better for us than it might for others: it’s a local league, so should be able to find multiple days to meet, if not be available online (want to meet for day one for sure). Also I’m from the time before the interwebs and don’t mind manually inputting rosters myself if the wierd format isn’t supported by any one application.