Kareem Hunt's True Value & Talent

[James McGhee]

He's really good. He's an instant RB2 pretty much anywhere he signs. Explosive, picks up chunks and can catch very well out of the backfield.

Not that explosive though. 4.62 40 and
22nd percentile SPARQ.

He can catch though.

I think you're right though. A RB2. But not in fantasy. The second running back in a committee maybe.

I saw Twitter arguing the Lions should pick him up. Does anyone really think he's better than Kerryon? I'm still sticking with he's a solid back who excelled in a friendly offensive system.

[James McGhee]

I don't disagree with your take at all James. But, just so we are clear, then by your logic, L.Bell is also then, not an elite talent, but - he is a nice balanced jack of all trades rb with nice receiving chops but still - a product of a system. Maybe you do feel that way, I know I do. J.Conner production vs L.Bell production in that Steelers system.

I think a lot of "elite" RBs are being somewhat "exposed" by their back-ups...that they're more a product of their system than their individual talent. Bell and Conner. Gurley and CJ Anderson! Hunt and Williams. I think Bell's market is going to be dried up compared to what he thinks it will be.

And don't read this to mean I think CJ Anderson is near as good as Gurley. Just that, to me, Anderson's success speaks to the overall quality of the Rams' O-line, scheme, etc. and puts less of Gurley's success on his individual talent. Same with Bell vs. Conner. And especially with Hunt. He's more a product of Reid's offense than an elite talent. In my opinion

[Pullo Vision]

So, who are the "truly elite" RB talents? What positions (offensive and defense) are the most insulated against seeing their value fluctuate based on their teammates and scheme? There is nothing in football like the mano a mano pitcher vs batter you see in baseball.

[Cameron Giles]

I don't disagree with your take at all James. But, just so we are clear, then by your logic, L.Bell is also then, not an elite talent, but - he is a nice balanced jack of all trades rb with nice receiving chops but still - a product of a system. Maybe you do feel that way, I know I do. J.Conner production vs L.Bell production in that Steelers system.

I think a lot of "elite" RBs are being somewhat "exposed" by their back-ups...that they're more a product of their system than their individual talent. Bell and Conner. Gurley and CJ Anderson! Hunt and Williams. I think Bell's market is going to be dried up compared to what he thinks it will be.

And don't read this to mean I think CJ Anderson is near as good as Gurley. Just that, to me, Anderson's success speaks to the overall quality of the Rams' O-line, scheme, etc. and puts less of Gurley's success on his individual talent. Same with Bell vs. Conner. And especially with Hunt. He's more a product of Reid's offense than an elite talent. In my opinion

This is always going to be true for any team with a good offensive line in a great offense. Even when Barry Sanders didn't play, his backup came in and played well.

RB is the most expendable position in the league, but the elite talents still are able to separate themselves when you go back and watch for traits.

[Elroypedro]

So, who are the "truly elite" RB talents? What positions (offensive and defense) are the most insulated against seeing their value fluctuate based on their teammates and scheme? There is nothing in football like the mano a mano pitcher vs batter you see in baseball.

Zeke, Saquon, and if you look at it, as long as he gets volume, which holds true for the first two as well, CMC.

There are other really good to great backs but put them in the position of those first 3 guys and none of them end up elite RB1s. Just look at DJ and Gurley. We know in bad situation they fall off to low RB1 or even RB2 range. All evidence points towards situation really boosting the LAR, Pitt, KC, and NO backs to the level of Zeke, Saquon, and CMC. Out of all of those, Kamara might be the one I would think would be most immune to situation because of his extreme obvious running and catching talent. But even he greatly benefitted from the elite scoring NO offense and was top 3 in the league in red zone rushes and thus scored a ton of TDs.

So I think Zeke, Saquon, CMC, and probably Kamara are the elite talents regardless of situation.

[Vcize]

As usual the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

The KC situation undoubtedly makes him look better, but he's no slouch either. A JAG playing on the KC offense gets a free 15 yard gain here. A very good RB turns a 15 yard gain into a 30 yard TD.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/10566232 ... zing-td%2F

[Elroypedro]

As usual the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

The KC situation undoubtedly makes him look better, but he's no slouch either. A JAG playing on the KC offense gets a free 15 yard gain here. A very good RB turns a 15 yard gain into a 30 yard TD.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/10566232 ... zing-td%2F

https://www.chiefs.com/video/chiefs-vs- ... highlights

Just some highlights from one game here, the divisional round against the Colts. But if you are implying Damien Williams is a JAG you are clearly outside of your mind. He has several instances of elite cuts and acceleration in that set of runs alone against what had become a good run D in Indy. In fact, some of those runs exhibited very elite skills. He is limited compared to the best tier of backs who possess a wide range of elite skills, and he is just merely above average but good enough with power and downfield speed, and struggles a bit with elusiveness late in runs. But altogether he is far above JAG level, as evidenced above.

So, on topic, the KC situation is obviously good and helping these guys, but neither Hunt or Williams is a JAG, and likely neither is a complete elite tier back either, as some may have been saying about Hunt before he was cut

[James McGhee]

As usual the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

The KC situation undoubtedly makes him look better, but he's no slouch either. A JAG playing on the KC offense gets a free 15 yard gain here. A very good RB turns a 15 yard gain into a 30 yard TD.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/10566232 ... zing-td%2F

https://www.chiefs.com/video/chiefs-vs- ... highlights

Just some highlights from one game here, the divisional round against the Colts. But if you are implying Damien Williams is a JAG you are clearly outside of your mind. He has several instances of elite cuts and acceleration in that set of runs alone against what had become a good run D in Indy. In fact, some of those runs exhibited very elite skills. He is limited compared to the best tier of backs who possess a wide range of elite skills, and he is just merely above average but good enough with power and downfield speed, and struggles a bit with elusiveness late in runs. But altogether he is far above JAG level, as evidenced above.

So, on topic, the KC situation is obviously good and helping these guys, but neither Hunt or Williams is a JAG, and likely neither is a complete elite tier back either, as some may have been saying about Hunt before he was cut

I agree that neither Hunt nor Williams is JAG but they're in a tier somewhere between JAG and elite.

And I'm not saying that Gurley and some of the others being discussed aren't among the best backs in the league. They are. And they take advantage of the good situations they're in. But someone nailed it on the head. It's the most replaceable position in football. That has never been more obvious than this year. Hard to consider a guy elite when someone else comes in and puts up stud numbers in their stead.

e-lite - a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society

Hard to make that judgment for a back when their replacements put up similar numbers. Are they really superior?

[DJB]

I've been beating the drum since prior to the season that Hunt is more Andy Reid scheme than he is an elite talent and i will continue to do so.

Depending on the situation he falls into this off season i can see RB2 numbers but he no longer is elite RB1 stud.

[Elroypedro]

I think we are mostly all in agreement:

Hunt is better than average, has some elite qualities, but benefitted greatly from his situation(as another better than average and elite in some ways but definitely not complete back in D Williams has proved the system is amazing). If put in Saquon’s or DJ’s situation he would likely be closer to an RB2 than one of the elite RB1s he was for a season and a half in KC.

Something like that

[MichaelScarn]

I got offered Carson and a mid/high 2020 1st for my Hunt share and 2.02 today... do I do this?
After reading this thread I’m inclined to accept

[Cameron Giles]

I got offered Carson and a mid/high 2020 1st for my Hunt share and 2.02 today... do I do this?
After reading this thread I’m inclined to accept

Yes.

[Patsfan86]

Ok so if he isn't as elite as he looked from a talent level what RBs are you going to compare him to or value higher than him? Michel? Conner? Mixon? Where does he fall around these guys?

[Patsfan86]

Im also not sure if I agree with the whole "andy reid makes people great" narrative. Hunts importance to that team was shown when he left. They did not look the same. Had hunt been in the AFC Championship game im sure they would would have won, and im a Pats fan.

[James McGhee]

Im also not sure if I agree with the whole "andy reid makes people great" narrative. Hunts importance to that team was shown when he left. They did not look the same. Had hunt been in the AFC Championship game im sure they would would have won, and im a Pats fan.

Strongly disagree here. He wouldn't have made the difference. Reid has shown himself to be lacking as a big game coach many times over and it was evident again. Hunt wouldn't have mattered.

As far as dealing him...he has enough talent to hold and see where he lands. If it's into a good situation he might be a hold. Don't get me wrong in all my bashing. He's above average to the point where a good situation puts him into high level production. If I have him I'm holding him...for now. What's the rush? Too much can happen between now and September.