Foles vs Wentz

[Lotto4Life]

As far as sacks, Wentz is a better athlete than Foles and still thinks he can escape sacks like he did in college. Foles knows he can't and gets rid of the ball much better to avoid the sacks.

[Ice]

Foles is overrated..

But so is Wentz.

Some truth to this!

Foles had chances to leave last year but didn't want to go.
Wentz can't seem to stay healthy but has more overall talent than Foles.

NFL wise, I would rather own Dak Prescott than Carson Wentz as an example.

While I think Foles and the Eagles will get bounced this week, if Foles somehow wins Back to back SB's the Eagles will have a full blown QB controversy on their hands. Philly is a town that boos Santa Claus and Wentz is no Santa.

Had to stop reading after that statement. Dak? Really ?

YES REALLY; I get the media attention on Dak as a Cowboy vs Wentz the golden Child high draft pick but aside from draft position, Dak is far more durable, vastly better in the 4th quarter and has better stats career to date.

Career Stats since coming into the league the same year.
Record
Dak 32-16
Wentz 23-17

Completion percentage
Dak 66.1%
Wentz 63.7%

YPA
Dak 7.4
Wentz 7.0

QB Rating
Dak 96
Wentz 92.5

4th quarter comebacks/ Game winning drives:
Dak 8/14 (Dak leads the NFL in Game winning drives since entering the league.) (14 is the Most since 1970 for a QB in first 3 years)

Wentz 4/4 (Tied at 23 -25 with Mayfield and Foles over the last 3 years total)

QB Runs:

PRESCOTT 177 attempts 940 yards 17 TD's Fumbles including sack fumbles 24
WENTZ 140 attempts 545 yards 2 TD's Fumbles including sack fumbles 31

The reality is Wentz is talented and while many will think it crazy at first glance; However, 3 years in when one drills down on the stats they really are not all that close to date.

Both QB's have issues for sure given youth, both hold the ball too long and fumble way too much but the arrow is pointing up for both players. Dak has simply been the better QB to date in the key stats.

[juke05]

Some truth to this!

Foles had chances to leave last year but didn't want to go.
Wentz can't seem to stay healthy but has more overall talent than Foles.

NFL wise, I would rather own Dak Prescott than Carson Wentz as an example.

While I think Foles and the Eagles will get bounced this week, if Foles somehow wins Back to back SB's the Eagles will have a full blown QB controversy on their hands. Philly is a town that boos Santa Claus and Wentz is no Santa.

Had to stop reading after that statement. Dak? Really ?

YES REALLY; I get the media attention on Dak as a Cowboy vs Wentz the golden Child high draft pick but aside from draft position, Dak is far more durable, vastly better in the 4th quarter and has better stats.

Career Stats since coming into the league the same year.
Record
Dak 32-16
Wentz 23-17

Completion percentage
Dak 66.1%
Wentz 63.7%

YPA
Dak 7.4
Wentz 7.0

QB Rating
Dak 96
Wentz 92.5

4th quarter comebacks/ Game winning drives:
Dak 8/14 (Dak leads the NFL in Game winning drives since entering the league.)
Wentz 4/4

QB Runs:

PRESCOTT 177 attempts 940 yards 17 TD's Fumbles/sacks 24
WENTZ 140 attempts 545 yards 2 TD's Fumbles/sacks 31

The reality is Wentz is talented and while many will think it crazy at first glance; However, 3 years in when one drills down on the stats they really are not all that close to date.

Dak had arguably the best rookie season ever though (bolstered by Zeke and one of the best O lines of possibly the decade) and wentz had a very pedestrian rookie year. Looking at the last two years only:

Record:
Wentz: 16-8 (66.7%)
Dak: 19-13 (59.3%)

Completion %:
Wentz: 64.7%
Dak: 65.4%

YPA:
Wentz: 7.6
Dak: 7.1

TD/INT:
Wentz: 54/14
Dak: 44/21

QB Rating each year 2017/2018:
Wentz: 101.9/102.2
Dak: 86.6/96.9

Sacks taken per game:
Wentz: 2.5
Dak: 2.75

In regard to Wentz v. Foles, Wentz is obviously better and it's not even close. Pederson just seems to call a better game when Foles is in for some reason (less aggressive, calling plays with a higher success rate, running the ball more, etc.). Not to mention that the defense has played SO much better in the last three weeks. It's like an entirely different team. While I stand firm that Wentz>Foles, as an eagles fan, I would gladly trade another Super Bowl win with Foles even if it means Wentz never plays another down for the eagles.

[Pullo Vision]

Damn, Ice, way to bring the numbers to back up what seemed like a ridiculous idea at first.

I think it's worth noting Wentz is very young. Brady at 26 wasn't even close to being the GOAT yet. bleep -- at that age, he was still just a game-manager.

Point is, Foles is probably at his peak. Wentz probably isn't. There are many possible factors that contribute to a QB taking too many sacks, some his fault some not his fault, but suffice it to say that more experience should, in theory, see those numbers diminish.

Exactly what I was referring to when I suggested Wentz a tools-y developmental prospect. He's not Josh Allen, but he's closer to Deshaun Watson than Aaron Rodgers. Watson, for the record, also tends to take a bunch of sacks, but I'd prefer him in the NFL and fantasy over Wentz.

[Ice]

One can piece meal the stats but to say Zeke made Dak in year one when last year he was out 6 games while Dallas had one of the youngest defenses in the league, massive injuries, a WR that lost a step, and a TE that was so old he couldn't run discounts the reality Dak still won a lot of games is a bit disingenuous.

Dallas swept the Eagles this season and now with a healthy defense, Zeke for the year, and a legit #1 WR the offense is clicking playing their ball control style. Dak has been playing solid football even with a banged up O line all year.

When the Game is on the line late in the 4th quarter there has been none better than Dak with the exception of Brees this season. Dak has been outstanding in the 4th quarter 3 straight years. That is a stat one can't argue; He plays his guts out and refuses to give in when it matters most. That winning mentality is rare.

Wentz was 5-6 as a starter this year on the SB defending champs. Last year with far more team issues Dak was still 9-7. The Eagles are very fortunate to have Foles. Foles was special last year and when he has been playing this year.

Wentz was not special this season despite his talent but does have the talent to be special.

BTW,

I am a huge fan of Wentz, I think he was one of the best prospects to come into the league since Luck. Dak was an incredible surprise for the Cowboys and I don't think anyone thought he would be a solid NFL QB when drafted. Much like Brady in that regard.

One reason I think many discount Dak is because where he was drafted and was overlooked by scouts and teams in general. After 3 years of winning though it is getting hard to overlook his contributions in that offense.

[jetsfan5757]

Foles > Marino

Agreed
Marino 6’4” 228
Foles 6’6” 243

[FiremanEd]

Serious. If he wins back to back Super Bowls in what looked like a year they wouldn’t make the playoffs there is zero chance Wentz is the starter next year.

Zero chance is not realistic. I agree it would be something of epic proportions, and it would certainly make an interesting situation for the Eagles, but lest we not forget that Wentz was a legit MVP candidate as recently as last season, while also being younger, cheaper in 2019, and potentially have a comparable contract thereafter depending on what Foles nets coming off back-to-back Superbowls (if that happened). It would certainly be an interesting case to follow, and some pressure would certainly lean towards Foles, but there would still be a very realistic chance for Wentz to be the starter moving forward. All that said, the Eagles would certainly have increased trade value overall with such a scenario.

Realistically they won't win the Superbowl and therefore not see this truly play out, but even if they win against the Bears and perhaps even one other game, the overall debate will continue to grow and be intriguing. I'd still put my money on Wentz, but you never truly know until it all plays out and all the chips are accounted for.

[ninotoreS]

Watson, for the record, also tends to take a bunch of sacks

Houston's O-line is hot garbage at pass-protection, according to FootballOutsiders. Bad last year (20th), dead last this year (32th).

It's a small miracle Houston is 11-5 with it, and testament to Watson's potential once Houston has something better than human-shaped traffic cones protecting him.

[JoshGordonsDealer]

So where do we think Foles ends up? Nothing posted here since he beat Chi-town.

I don't think the Eagles keep him, and my guess is the Jags.

[pvillebiker]

Jax has to be a strong contender for Foles landing spot. Maybe Miami?

On the Foles vs Wentz, it seems intuitively obvious that Foles is a better playoff QB and Wentz is a better regular season QB. At least so far. And no, Wentz is not done developing yet. I don't think the eagles get past the saints this week, but I'd love to see the eagles win the SB and force the eagles to confront the Foles vs Wentz dilemma. It wouldn't be as easy to dismiss with 2 rings, but they still probably would move him.

[skip]

On the Foles vs Wentz, it seems intuitively obvious that Foles is a better playoff QB and Wentz is a better regular season QB. At least so far.

A rather ridiculous conclusion given that Wentz has yet to appear in a post season game...

[maxhyde]

On the Foles vs Wentz, it seems intuitively obvious that Foles is a better playoff QB and Wentz is a better regular season QB. At least so far.

A rather ridiculous conclusion given that Wentz has yet to appear in a post season game...

I thought the same thing...

[clarion contrarion]

I almost want to see Foles win another Super Bowl just to watch how it unfolds to be honest.
Although I think it is exceedingly unlikely.
They would basically need to win @ the Bears, then @ the Saints, then @ one of the Rams, Cowboys or Seahawks.
Then beat the AFC Champions.

...That would be hard to argue with.

Folesmagic!

sort of this for me as well ^^^
with my steelers as spectators this year
I am torn between
1) philly rivers getting a career defining title
2) Seeing the local colts and their bully ball OLINE and fly around defense win as I love the way the play but delight in trolling the colts fans at family functions .
&
3) seeing how the eagles dynamic would unfold if foles magic strikes again.

Teams & GM's define their career's by winning one lombardi and for a guy to win two there is no way in hell he can be allowed to leave town . It would be time to trade wentz for a mint seriously all the raiders 1sts in 2019 would be a fair price . right?
People throw around names like marino but fact is he never won and some of those early phins teams were very very talented so the fact the foles won 1 means he has earned and deserves respect forever for that achievement . It wasn't a trent dilfer brad johnson hide behind the defense title it wasn't even a low scoring make no mistakes eli manning title
It was a high noon shootout vs the GOAT and he cleared leather and shot down belicheck and the goat period ! and if he does it again then he is a HoF guy and should be the eagles qb until he doesn't wish to be that anymore .

Wentz for all his skill and potential got injured in college and has been injured the last 2 years and would not be the 1st or last young qb that peaked early and lived off his reputation for the balance of his career ref stat padford ah er matt stafford or carson palmer or brett favre or many others .

[AussieMate]

I didn't see this debate during the first few games of the year when Foles was hot garbage. I would also like to know what Wentz sack rate was last year as he was fresh off a busted knee most of this year so lost alot of his manouvarability and played his last couple of games with a fracture.
The one debate I can take seriously from this thread is the amount of injuries Wentz has suffered in his career, starting to pile up and is a legitimate concern.

[Pullo Vision]

This has to be posted somewhere- https://www.phillyvoice.com/carson-went ... am-player/

Reich and DeFilippo stressed to Wentz the importance of sticking with the play that was called — a completed pass was there waiting. When Wentz deviated from that, it was sometimes met with bad consequences, like an interception or a sack. When Wentz trusted what Reich and DeFilippo called, it led to an MVP-like season that produced an Eagles’ single-season franchise record 33 touchdown passes and an 11-2 record in 13 games.

Pederson, Reich and DeFilippo were the perfect storm of coaches. Each had their strengths, and each complemented one another.

With Reich taking the top job with the Colts and DeFilippo joining the Vikings this season, the Eagles’ offense was going to be pretty much the same, or so the players thought. There was one major exception: Wentz didn’t want to run many of the concepts, because he felt that was “Foles’ stuff,” sources said. But as anyone who watched the Eagles could see, Foles and the Eagles’ offense was successful running their “normal stuff.”

Aggravation came in knowing that if Wentz was the more dominant player — and he is — why wouldn’t the offense be even more prolific with him running it than Foles?

The glaring difference is that Foles, every source stated, would go through progressions within the offense — exactly how it was designed to run — and hit the open receiver, regardless of who it was or where they were on the field. Wentz only saw, it seemed, one receiver the majority of the season: Zach Ertz. This understandably frustrated the rest of the offense, considering other receivers were open downfield. To stop the Eagles in 2018 under Wentz was rather easy: Stop No. 86.

Wentz’s proclivity for playing “favorites” manifested itself in targeting Ertz, who went on to catch a single-season NFL-record 116 passes for a tight end. Over the 11 games Wentz played, he went to Ertz 106 times (an average of 9.6 targets per game), while Alshon Jeffery was targeted 74 times (7.4 targets per game) and Nelson Agholor 60 times (5.4 targets per game). Sources added, without any great revelation, that Jordan Matthews is an Eagle because “of his buddy Wentz.”