Who are the studs coming in 2019

[Dynasty DeLorean]

I've watched a few games of Haskins/Lock/Jones, and I have to say, the QB class looks terrible. None of these guys have it, in my opinion.

None of them have what?

[FantasyFreak]

I've watched a few games of Haskins/Lock/Jones, and I have to say, the QB class looks terrible. None of these guys have it, in my opinion.

None of them have what?

It.

[ascherb]

I'm so confused as to why we're acting like weight doesn't change. Plus, it's no longer a critical component of being a great WR.

Okay let me rephrase. There’s never been a top 10 PPR WR at his height that has weighed in at 169 lbs. Even if he comes in at 175 lbs at the combine the odds are still pretty against him due to older breakout age.

And again, it doesn't matter. Players can gain weight. If he bulks up to 185, then what are you going to talk about? It's easy to gain weight, it's not easy to be a good WR.

Breakout age is a notable thing, but it doesn't determine success either.

You can’t just gain an infinite amount of weight.

Certain athletes are able to gain more weight than others while still maintaining speed and quickness, but there’s always a cap to how much weight someone can effectively carry.

Is he even the same guy if he bulks up to 185.

Weight isn’t everything, but it matters, and sub-170 is tiny for the NFL, no doubt about that. Remains to be seen if his game is good enough to make his size not matter.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

You can’t just gain an infinite amount of weight.

I’m curious how you tested this

[FantasyFreak]

Okay let me rephrase. There’s never been a top 10 PPR WR at his height that has weighed in at 169 lbs. Even if he comes in at 175 lbs at the combine the odds are still pretty against him due to older breakout age.

And again, it doesn't matter. Players can gain weight. If he bulks up to 185, then what are you going to talk about? It's easy to gain weight, it's not easy to be a good WR.

Breakout age is a notable thing, but it doesn't determine success either.

You can’t just gain an infinite amount of weight.

Certain athletes are able to gain more weight than others while still maintaining speed and quickness, but there’s always a cap to how much weight someone can effectively carry.

Is he even the same guy if he bulks up to 185.

Weight isn’t everything, but it matters, and sub-170 is tiny for the NFL, no doubt about that. Remains to be seen if his game is good enough to make his size not matter.

Agreed. He could be another John Ross (haven't seen that thread bumped recently), or a new age Cliff Branch. I have my doubts about Hollywood being a viable FF option. Could be a real dynamic weapon in an offense. My concern is that he'll be a guy that only works the outside, due to his lack of size. He's lighter that Tarik Cohen in his rookie year. I mean, JJ Nelson is still hanging around (kind of) and he was what, 149 pounds? I think there is significant risk with Brown. He needs to run in the 4.2's or low 4.3's to be considered a top pick IMO. If he doesn't have that top end speed, his value will drop significantly, both in terms of NFL value, and FF. If he posts a sub 4.3, though, somebody will be willing to take the plunge, and he could be a top 15 pick.

[FantasyFreak]

You can’t just gain an infinite amount of weight.

I’m curious how you tested this

This is how.

[Cameron Giles]

Okay let me rephrase. There’s never been a top 10 PPR WR at his height that has weighed in at 169 lbs. Even if he comes in at 175 lbs at the combine the odds are still pretty against him due to older breakout age.

And again, it doesn't matter. Players can gain weight. If he bulks up to 185, then what are you going to talk about? It's easy to gain weight, it's not easy to be a good WR.

Breakout age is a notable thing, but it doesn't determine success either.

You can’t just gain an infinite amount of weight.

Certain athletes are able to gain more weight than others while still maintaining speed and quickness, but there’s always a cap to how much weight someone can effectively carry.

Is he even the same guy if he bulks up to 185.

Weight isn’t everything, but it matters, and sub-170 is tiny for the NFL, no doubt about that. Remains to be seen if his game is good enough to make his size not matter.

We're talking about 10 pounds. You really think NFL players can't gain 10 pounds while still maintaining their athleticism and quickness? 10 pounds is relatively nothing.

I'll gladly take a chance on a player who checks all the technical aspects of being a good WR if his biggest problem is that he needs to eat a Big Mac. It's better than trusting WR's who can't run a route, beat press, get good releases or create separation to save their lives.

[Cameron Giles]

Agreed. He could be another John Ross (haven't seen that thread bumped recently), or a new age Cliff Branch. I have my doubts about Hollywood being a viable FF option. Could be a real dynamic weapon in an offense. My concern is that he'll be a guy that only works the outside, due to his lack of size. He's lighter that Tarik Cohen in his rookie year. I mean, JJ Nelson is still hanging around (kind of) and he was what, 149 pounds? I think there is significant risk with Brown. He needs to run in the 4.2's or low 4.3's to be considered a top pick IMO. If he doesn't have that top end speed, his value will drop significantly, both in terms of NFL value, and FF. If he posts a sub 4.3, though, somebody will be willing to take the plunge, and he could be a top 15 pick.

This ignores the reason why John Ross hasn't been good so far and it's because he's missed 16 of 32 possible games. Any player regardless of size is going to struggle if they can't stay on the field early in their career. People will bring up other random small WR's, but how many of them were actually good WR's? Tavon Austin was a poor route runner. Corey Coleman could've been good but never improved in the technical areas that Baylor neglected and couldn't stay on the field.

I don't know why we're talking about Brown like he's 120 pounds. In terms of winning at each level of the field, creating separation, winning at the LOS, route running potential, quickness in and out the break, and knowing how to set up defenders, Brown is the best WR in this class right now. He's been valued as a 1st round WR all season for those reasons and has played bigger than his size.

Weight in football is becoming such a meaningless thing because the NFL has rules that protect offensive players over the middle and rules that overprotect QB's. Nobody takes big hits like that anymore. I don't like this class, but Brown is one of the few players who jumps off the page and has several skills that usually translate at the WR position. So, sure...take that "plunge" if it's available.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

I think DJax was 169 lbs coming out.

[FantasyFreak]

Agreed. He could be another John Ross (haven't seen that thread bumped recently), or a new age Cliff Branch. I have my doubts about Hollywood being a viable FF option. Could be a real dynamic weapon in an offense. My concern is that he'll be a guy that only works the outside, due to his lack of size. He's lighter that Tarik Cohen in his rookie year. I mean, JJ Nelson is still hanging around (kind of) and he was what, 149 pounds? I think there is significant risk with Brown. He needs to run in the 4.2's or low 4.3's to be considered a top pick IMO. If he doesn't have that top end speed, his value will drop significantly, both in terms of NFL value, and FF. If he posts a sub 4.3, though, somebody will be willing to take the plunge, and he could be a top 15 pick.

This ignores the reason why John Ross hasn't been good so far and it's because he's missed 16 of 32 possible games. Any player regardless of size is going to struggle if they can't stay on the field early in their career. People will bring up other random small WR's, but how many of them were actually good WR's? Tavon Austin was a poor route runner. Corey Coleman could've been good but never improved in the technical areas that Baylor neglected and couldn't stay on the field.

I don't know why we're talking about Brown like he's 120 pounds. In terms of winning at each level of the field, creating separation, winning at the LOS, route running potential, quickness in and out the break, and knowing how to set up defenders, Brown is the best WR in this class right now. He's been valued as a 1st round WR all season for those reasons and has played bigger than his size.

Weight in football is becoming such a meaningless thing because the NFL has rules that protect offensive players over the middle and rules that overprotect QB's. Nobody takes big hits like that anymore. I don't like this class, but Brown is one of the few players who jumps off the page and has several skills that usually translate at the WR position. So, sure...take that "plunge" if it's available.

I'm acknowledging the inherent upside of Brown, but you seen unable to acknowledge the inherent risk. I don't know why anything in my statement suggests he was 120 pounds. Let's see what he actually weighs, because I doubt he weighs as much as his teams site suggests, but even if he does, he's sub 170 pounds. There is risk to drafting a player of that size in the NFL, there just is. I love D Jax, and he made it. All I was talking about was his speed to weight combo, and how it will affect his draft stock, and that he might not be used by an offense as a typical WR. If he runs a 4.45 at 165 pounds, it's going to hurt his stock, it just will. If he's 1.75 and runs a 4.31, he will be drafted higher. That's basically a fact.

[Orenthal Shames]

I think DJax was 169 lbs coming out.

The Jackson comp seems about right and seems to be best case scenario. The thing thar separates them is breakout age. Djax had an elite one at 18. Brown is on the opposite end of the spectrum at 21. I won't own him, because someone else will inevitably him far higher than I'd be comfortable.

[Cameron Giles]

Agreed. He could be another John Ross (haven't seen that thread bumped recently), or a new age Cliff Branch. I have my doubts about Hollywood being a viable FF option. Could be a real dynamic weapon in an offense. My concern is that he'll be a guy that only works the outside, due to his lack of size. He's lighter that Tarik Cohen in his rookie year. I mean, JJ Nelson is still hanging around (kind of) and he was what, 149 pounds? I think there is significant risk with Brown. He needs to run in the 4.2's or low 4.3's to be considered a top pick IMO. If he doesn't have that top end speed, his value will drop significantly, both in terms of NFL value, and FF. If he posts a sub 4.3, though, somebody will be willing to take the plunge, and he could be a top 15 pick.

This ignores the reason why John Ross hasn't been good so far and it's because he's missed 16 of 32 possible games. Any player regardless of size is going to struggle if they can't stay on the field early in their career. People will bring up other random small WR's, but how many of them were actually good WR's? Tavon Austin was a poor route runner. Corey Coleman could've been good but never improved in the technical areas that Baylor neglected and couldn't stay on the field.

I don't know why we're talking about Brown like he's 120 pounds. In terms of winning at each level of the field, creating separation, winning at the LOS, route running potential, quickness in and out the break, and knowing how to set up defenders, Brown is the best WR in this class right now. He's been valued as a 1st round WR all season for those reasons and has played bigger than his size.

Weight in football is becoming such a meaningless thing because the NFL has rules that protect offensive players over the middle and rules that overprotect QB's. Nobody takes big hits like that anymore. I don't like this class, but Brown is one of the few players who jumps off the page and has several skills that usually translate at the WR position. So, sure...take that "plunge" if it's available.

I'm acknowledging the inherent upside of Brown, but you seen unable to acknowledge the inherent risk. I don't know why anything in my statement suggests he was 120 pounds. Let's see what he actually weighs, because I doubt he weighs as much as his teams site suggests, but even if he does, he's sub 170 pounds. There is risk to drafting a player of that size in the NFL, there just is. I love D Jax, and he made it. All I was talking about was his speed to weight combo, and how it will affect his draft stock, and that he might not be used by an offense as a typical WR. If he runs a 4.45 at 165 pounds, it's going to hurt his stock, it just will. If he's 1.75 and runs a 4.31, he will be drafted higher. That's basically a fact.

The "risk" you're talking about is significantly more correctable than a player lacking several technical skills as a WR. It's actually something that can be improved right now. I don't know how fast he is, but 10 pounds isn't really enough to create a significant decline in athleticism or speed. And more likely than not, scouts are going to trust the speed that shows up on game tape than a singular number.

[Cameron Giles]

I think DJax was 169 lbs coming out.

The Jackson comp seems about right and seems to be best case scenario. The thing thar separates them is breakout age. Djax had an elite one at 18. Brown is on the opposite end of the spectrum at 21. I won't own him, because someone else will inevitably him far higher than I'd be comfortable.

Brown didn't start playing D1 until he was 20 years old, so his breakout age isn't really a relevant factor.

[Titans95]

This ignores the reason why John Ross hasn't been good so far and it's because he's missed 16 of 32 possible games. Any player regardless of size is going to struggle if they can't stay on the field early in their career. People will bring up other random small WR's, but how many of them were actually good WR's? Tavon Austin was a poor route runner. Corey Coleman could've been good but never improved in the technical areas that Baylor neglected and couldn't stay on the field.

I don't know why we're talking about Brown like he's 120 pounds. In terms of winning at each level of the field, creating separation, winning at the LOS, route running potential, quickness in and out the break, and knowing how to set up defenders, Brown is the best WR in this class right now. He's been valued as a 1st round WR all season for those reasons and has played bigger than his size.

Weight in football is becoming such a meaningless thing because the NFL has rules that protect offensive players over the middle and rules that overprotect QB's. Nobody takes big hits like that anymore. I don't like this class, but Brown is one of the few players who jumps off the page and has several skills that usually translate at the WR position. So, sure...take that "plunge" if it's available.

I'm acknowledging the inherent upside of Brown, but you seen unable to acknowledge the inherent risk. I don't know why anything in my statement suggests he was 120 pounds. Let's see what he actually weighs, because I doubt he weighs as much as his teams site suggests, but even if he does, he's sub 170 pounds. There is risk to drafting a player of that size in the NFL, there just is. I love D Jax, and he made it. All I was talking about was his speed to weight combo, and how it will affect his draft stock, and that he might not be used by an offense as a typical WR. If he runs a 4.45 at 165 pounds, it's going to hurt his stock, it just will. If he's 1.75 and runs a 4.31, he will be drafted higher. That's basically a fact.

The "risk" you're talking about is significantly more correctable than a player lacking several technical skills as a WR. It's actually something that can be improved right now. I don't know how fast he is, but 10 pounds isn't really enough to create a significant decline in athleticism or speed. And more likely than not, scouts are going to trust the speed that shows up on game tape than a singular number.

Just hopping in here, I think Mr. Freak was just suggesting that if he doesn't clock in a low 4.3 speed then there won't be a huge justification to draft a WR that is so light weight. Even if he does run a 4.3 speed then there's a solid chance he becomes JJ Nelson not Djax, it's hard to stay healthy when you weigh that much and its hard to be strong enough to create separation in press coverage at that weight. I haven't studied a ton of his tape but I like what I've seen so far but there is definitely more risk to drafting him over the group of guys that all weigh over 200lbs and are sitting at 6'2-6'4.

Also I agree scouts will trust the tape more than the combine but the combine definitely plays a HUGE factor in draft stock, look at how high DJ Moore rose during the pre-draft process due to his athleticism and look how Ridley got a lot of bad rep for his poor showing. I believe Dalvin Cook even fell in drafts because of his showing at the combine, many were expecting a low 4.4 or high 4.3 but he ran a 4.49 and dropped out of the tier from LF and CMC.

[Cameron Giles]

I'm acknowledging the inherent upside of Brown, but you seen unable to acknowledge the inherent risk. I don't know why anything in my statement suggests he was 120 pounds. Let's see what he actually weighs, because I doubt he weighs as much as his teams site suggests, but even if he does, he's sub 170 pounds. There is risk to drafting a player of that size in the NFL, there just is. I love D Jax, and he made it. All I was talking about was his speed to weight combo, and how it will affect his draft stock, and that he might not be used by an offense as a typical WR. If he runs a 4.45 at 165 pounds, it's going to hurt his stock, it just will. If he's 1.75 and runs a 4.31, he will be drafted higher. That's basically a fact.

The "risk" you're talking about is significantly more correctable than a player lacking several technical skills as a WR. It's actually something that can be improved right now. I don't know how fast he is, but 10 pounds isn't really enough to create a significant decline in athleticism or speed. And more likely than not, scouts are going to trust the speed that shows up on game tape than a singular number.

Just hopping in here, I think Mr. Freak was just suggesting that if he doesn't clock in a low 4.3 speed then there won't be a huge justification to draft a WR that is so light weight. Even if he does run a 4.3 speed then there's a solid chance he becomes JJ Nelson not Djax, it's hard to stay healthy when you weigh that much and its hard to be strong enough to create separation in press coverage at that weight. I haven't studied a ton of his tape but I like what I've seen so far but there is definitely more risk to drafting him over the group of guys that all weigh over 200lbs and are sitting at 6'2-6'4.

Beating press isn't all about size though. Explosion, quickness, footwork are huge factors. There are big receivers who suck at beating press and get crap releases off the line.

Regardless of how much you weigh or how tall you are, you eventually have to develop substance and technical skill as a WR, which isn't easy to do. Brown right now is the furthest along in that area, which is a significant thing to keep in mind. I wouldn't pass on him because of weight. I'd pass on someone if they generally just show very little at being skilled at the position.