Will Fuller Discussion

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
derekhiny
Captain
Captain
Posts: 967
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:00 am

Will Fuller Discussion

Postby derekhiny » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:25 pm

So Fuller measured in at the combine with tiny 8 1/4 inch hands for a WR. Not good. Guess we know where the 21 drops in two years came from. Hand size, coupled with the drops, just pushed him waaayyy down the NFL draft board. Currently going early 2nd in fantasy rookie mocks. I'd have trouble taking him in later half of the 2nd now.
12 Team Full Point PPR / IDP

QB - A-Rod, Russ Wilson, Lamar Jax,
RB - Zeke, DJ, Ingram, J Howard, Penny, Ware
WR - Nuk, Julio, D Adams, Cooks, A Cooper, Kirk, E Sanders, Albert Wilson, Deon Cain, Brandon Powell, Lasley
TE - Kittle, Delanie, Goedert, Brate, Eifert, Shaheen
DE - Hunter, Melvin Ingram, JPP, Fowler, Nassib, Golden, Turay
LB - Keuchley, Telvin, Deion Jones, Fred Warner
DB - Bates, John Johnson, McDougald, Justin Reid, Geathers, R Harrison, Whitehead

Cameron Giles
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 14242
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Will Fuller

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:41 pm

I would gladly take Fuller in the second, or even late first. He's got the athleticism, high route running potential, and was very productive. I couldn't see him higher than that.

Hand size is not the determining factor in drops, though it can help if you have natural big hands. Tyler Lockett has 8 3/8 hands, and catches the ball fine. Drops are mostly a concentration problem, body catching or sometimes you can have a QB who's putting too much heat on the ball. Fuller doesn't really attack the ball in the air. His floor might be Kenny Stills, which is concerning.

derekhiny
Captain
Captain
Posts: 967
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:00 am

Re: Will Fuller

Postby derekhiny » Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:12 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:I would gladly take Fuller in the second, or even late first. He's got the athleticism, high route running potential, and was very productive. I couldn't see him higher than that.

Hand size is not the determining factor in drops, though it can help if you have natural big hands. Tyler Lockett has 8 3/8 hands, and catches the ball fine. Drops are mostly a concentration problem, body catching or sometimes you can have a QB who's putting too much heat on the ball. Fuller doesn't really attack the ball in the air. His floor might be Kenny Stills, which is concerning.
Guess I'm the opposite. Was never a big Fuller fan, and this just piles it on for me. Kenny Stills is a great comp I hadn't thought of.
12 Team Full Point PPR / IDP

QB - A-Rod, Russ Wilson, Lamar Jax,
RB - Zeke, DJ, Ingram, J Howard, Penny, Ware
WR - Nuk, Julio, D Adams, Cooks, A Cooper, Kirk, E Sanders, Albert Wilson, Deon Cain, Brandon Powell, Lasley
TE - Kittle, Delanie, Goedert, Brate, Eifert, Shaheen
DE - Hunter, Melvin Ingram, JPP, Fowler, Nassib, Golden, Turay
LB - Keuchley, Telvin, Deion Jones, Fred Warner
DB - Bates, John Johnson, McDougald, Justin Reid, Geathers, R Harrison, Whitehead

Cameron Giles
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 14242
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Will Fuller

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:17 pm

derekhiny wrote:
Cameron Giles wrote:I would gladly take Fuller in the second, or even late first. He's got the athleticism, high route running potential, and was very productive. I couldn't see him higher than that.

Hand size is not the determining factor in drops, though it can help if you have natural big hands. Tyler Lockett has 8 3/8 hands, and catches the ball fine. Drops are mostly a concentration problem, body catching or sometimes you can have a QB who's putting too much heat on the ball. Fuller doesn't really attack the ball in the air. His floor might be Kenny Stills, which is concerning.
Guess I'm the opposite. Was never a big Fuller fan, and this just piles it on for me. Kenny Stills is a great comp I hadn't thought of.
I'm not too bullish on him either, but I'd probably take him over most of the crowd. I'd like to see a higher floor with his talent. The route running potential is there, but he just doesn't do too many things as a receiver that I like right now.

startstopping
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:50 am

Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby startstopping » Fri May 27, 2016 8:36 am

So my opinion on Fuller has been changing the last couple of weeks. Previously I was not even considering him in the late first round. Lately I have been thinking he could be a great value at my 1.9 or 1.11 picks.

I still don't love him long term, but I don't think its out of the realm of possibility he could see (on a smaller scale) a martavis like value increase after year 1. I know that Martinis is WAAAY more talented, and Brock is not Ben. However I think its all together possible (and maybe even probable) that he has a stretch at some point this season where he has 3 big games in the span of 4-5 weeks. If that happens I think you could flip him for a decent profit.

Am I just bored waiting for my rookie draft, and thinking too much? Or does anyone else think he could be a big riser value-wise in season.

User avatar
HawkeyeState
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3881
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 3:08 pm

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby HawkeyeState » Fri May 27, 2016 8:58 am

Pretty different players honestly
Martavis 6'4" 211 versus Fuller is 6' 186

As far as value increase though I can see what your getting at.
The thing I like maybe most about Fuller honestly is draft pedigree and fit in the offense.
Even with the joke show of a WR depth chart after Nuk, Jaelen Strong couldn't get on the field really and make an impact.
Fuller is THE PERFECT compliment to Nuk.
Also, the Texans moved up and paid additional draft capital in order to ensure that they got their guy in Fuller.
Now that says nothing about his talent or his success as an NFL player, but it definitely helps his probability of success and the commitment the team has to him.

I think if he didn't have the dropped passes, he would be the WR4 in front of Shephard in this class.
It's actually perfect timing though, a lot of writers, including Matt Harmon and others (I think footballguys and rotoviz did articles about this too), that we need to stop looking into WR drops as much as we are.

If you can get a round 1 WR with 4.32 speed later than 1.06 IMO your stealing value
Team 1
10 TM .5 PPR, 6 pt all TDs 1/2/3/1/2Flex
Newton, Rivers
LF, Chubb, Michel, Kerryon, Hyde, AJones, Royce F, Crowell
Adams, Cooper, Alshon, Watkins, ARob, Fuller, Doctson, Funchess, Gallup, Pettis, Valdez-Scant
Gronk, HHenry, Engram
1.09, 2.09, 3.09, 4.09, 5.09

Team 2
10 TM 1/2/3/1/1Flex 6pt all TDs .25 PPR RB, .5 PPR WR, 1 PPR TE
Wilson, Big Ben
Bell, JConner, MMack, Shady, CThompson, D'Onta Foreman, C Edmonds, B Scarborough
Julio, Nuk, Fuller, Cooks, ARob, Watkins, Cooper, SShepard, CDavis, DJ Chark
Kelce, Olsen, Andrews
1.09, 2.09, 3.09, 4.09, 5.09

Team 3
10 team, 0.5 PPR RBs WRs, 1 PPR TEs, Devy Superflex League
Carr, Goff, Falk
Barkley, Dalvin, Mixon, Michel, Ballage, MDavis, Dixon, Akers*
Hopkins, JuJu, Watkins, Fuller, Agholor, Moncrief, EQSB, Valdez-Scant, CRogers
Eifert, Ebron, JJames, JCook
1.02, 2.02, 2.06, 3.04

Played against David Johnson in HS, he was a stud back then too

User avatar
Phaded
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 11964
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby Phaded » Fri May 27, 2016 10:52 am

With how low the dynasty community is on him - I think he is the most likely to significantly outperform his ADP.

The Texans seem to be making a point to improve their offense, between Miller, Osweiler, Fuller & Miller.

If they double Hopkins - Fuller is the type who can burn single coverage with his speed.

I honestly feel like he is going to be the most interesting player to watch this season since he has already been written off.

User avatar
iCantStop
Starter
Starter
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:24 pm

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby iCantStop » Fri May 27, 2016 11:07 am

Fuller's upside isn't that of Julio Jones, and people "hate" him because of his tiny hands and playing second fiddle to Hopkins, but in non-PPR he is a perfect flex play (perhaps not immediately, but down the road) of a week-winner a la D-Jax or Mike Wallace. I think it's fair to expect some (majority) ~5 point games, and some ~25 point games.

AZK
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby AZK » Fri May 27, 2016 12:10 pm

JTLoh wrote: Everyone hates Fuller, except the NFL.
Totally worth a 1.9 and don't be so quick to flip him.
C'mon now, you can't truly use the NFL draft position argument to support your opinion of Fuller but want to outright drop Perriman after 1 year. Not to mention they are both fast WRs with a case of the dropsies. Wildly inconsistent opinions and rationale.
Ainslie-Rachlin Law, "Our decisions... are guided by the perceived values at the moment of the decision - not by the potential final value."

ninotoreS
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5092
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:56 pm

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby ninotoreS » Fri May 27, 2016 6:44 pm

I don't understand the comparison. Half of what makes M. Bryant effective is his dominant catch-radius. Fuller is the opposite; short arms, small hands, not much height.

edit: ah, you're making a vague value-rise scenario comparison
PhadedCN wrote:With how low the dynasty community is on him - I think he is the most likely to significantly outperform his ADP.

I honestly feel like he is going to be the most interesting player to watch this season since he has already been written off.
I don't like Fuller, but this makes sense, particularly the first statement.

Fuller is probably an excellent 2nd round pick in this weak rookie draft, considering his objectively possible upside.
Last edited by ninotoreS on Fri May 27, 2016 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure."
- Sun Tzu, 469 BCE

ninotoreS
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5092
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:56 pm

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby ninotoreS » Fri May 27, 2016 6:52 pm

JTLoh wrote:Everyone hates Fuller, except the NFL.
Ted Ginn is basically a Fuller clone, and he was 1.9 in his NFL draft class.

How'd that work out for Miami?
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure."
- Sun Tzu, 469 BCE

Crwdstunna
Captain
Captain
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby Crwdstunna » Sat May 28, 2016 8:11 am

Will Fuller and Martavis are not a good comparison, which others have noted already. With that said, I do like the value Fuller has with everyone writing him off. He has great speed and is going to be facing single coverage with inconsistent help over the top because defenses will be focused on Nuk's side. Could grow into a great flex player.
10 Team PPR Dynasty League (1QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 2Flex) 2018 Champ
QB: B Mayfield- D Brees- M Mariota RB: A Kamara- M Ingram- Du Johnson- C Hyde- M Lynch- A Peterson- G Edwards- L Murray- C Warren WR: A Brown- D Hopkins- T Boyd- A Jeffery- S Shepard- N Agholor- D Moncrief- L Fitzgerald- M Goodwin TE: OJ Howard- D Goedert
16 Team PPR Dynasty League (1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE)
QB: B Roethlisberger- C Keenum RB: Da Johnson- P Lindsay- J White- F Gore WR: A Thielen- C Kupp- K Golladay- C Sutton- A Miller- Tr Smith TE: OJ Howard- D Goerdert- C Herndon- A Hooper

12 Team PPR Dynasty League (2QB 2RB 2WR 2TE 3FLEX)
QB: C Newton- M Mariota- M Trubisky RB: S Barkley- J Mixon- C McCaffrey- N Hines- C Clement- C Carson WR: S Watkins- J Landry- S Diggs- C Godwin- M Williams- M Lee- K Golladay TE: R Gronkowski- D Njoku- G Kittle- E Ebron

startstopping
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:50 am

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby startstopping » Sat May 28, 2016 11:32 am

Crwdstunna wrote:Will Fuller and Martavis are not a good comparison, which others have noted already. With that said, I do like the value Fuller has with everyone writing him off. He has great speed and is going to be facing single coverage with inconsistent help over the top because defenses will be focused on Nuk's side. Could grow into a great flex player.
The comp is not the players, but their perceived role year.

Replace Fuller with Bryant and Nuk with Anonio and you have virtually the same situation and role.

My point is simply that if Bryant saw such a huge value increase simply playing the deep role year 1, then its not out of the realm of possibility for the same to happen with fuller.

Litesout13
Captain
Captain
Posts: 770
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:11 pm

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby Litesout13 » Sat May 28, 2016 1:21 pm

ninotoreS wrote:
JTLoh wrote:Everyone hates Fuller, except the NFL.
Ted Ginn is basically a Fuller clone, and he was 1.9 in his NFL draft class.

How'd that work out for Miami?
Tedd Ginn was more of a gadget player in college and didnt make the transition well. Fuller is more of a complete WR with far better route running. His main question is his hands.

Completely different prospects.
12 team PPR||Start QB-2RB-3WR-TE-Flex||Salary Cap=$65mil||My Salary: $61,483,329
QB: Ryan($6.53)-Smith($4.13)-Garoppolo($500k)
RB: Hyde($1.75)-D. Johnson($2.16)-Zeke($1.95)-White($500k)-Turbin($500)
WR: Julio ($8.25)-Thomas($8.18)-Edelman($4.64)-K. Benjamin($3.4)-Parker($1.5)-White($1.5)-Doctson($1.3)-Mitchell($650)
TE: Kelce($1.84)-Green($1.25)-Maxx Williams($500k)
2017: 1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,5
2018: 1,2,2,3,4,4,5

12 team PPR||Start QB-2RB-2WR-TE-2Flex
QB: R Wilson-Romo-RGIII-Wentz-Dak
RB: Zeke-Martin-Rawls-Hill-Starks-Perkins
WR: Julio-Parker-S Smith-T Williams-Cruz-Fuller
TE: Graham-Fleener-Hooper
2017: 1,2,3,4,5

12 Team PPR||Start QB-2RB-3WR-TE-2FLEX
QB:Rodgers-Tannehill-Wentz-Jimmy G
RB:Jones-JStew-Riddick-Henry-Drake-Sproles-Vereen-Collins
WR:Cooper-TY-Marshall-Snead-Cruz-Williams
TE:Kelce-Ertz-Clay

ninotoreS
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5092
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:56 pm

Re: Is Will Fuller Martavis Lite?

Postby ninotoreS » Sat May 28, 2016 4:52 pm

JTLoh wrote:I think Fuller is way different that Teddy GInn JR.
You'll have trouble specifically highlighting major differences. But doing the opposite is easy:

- similar height/weight
- both have major route-tree limitation
- both have poor ball-skills
- both have weak hand-strength
- both have no blocking utility
- for both their one and only shining trait that got them drafted in the 1st is/was their gonzo straight-line speed and sensational vertical-threat ability in college

When I try to think of their differences as prospects coming out of college, only a couple come to mind, and they're both pro-Ginn: he has much bigger hands than Fuller, a little bit longer arms, and was also a sensational punt/kick returner.

Ginn probably only got as high as 1.9 because he starred for Ohio State, thus granting him heaps of media attention. But the larger point here is that guys like him, Fuller, Heyward-Bey, Perriman, Dorsett, etc, have gotten to be 1st round picks despite numerous red flags in their game (or in Dorsett's specific case, lack of actual collegiate production) is a testament to how there's always a few teams in every draft that just go starry-eyed over field-stretching vertical speed in a receiver to the point that they're willing to overlook everything else. I assume they fall into the logic trap of: "Well I'm sure my amazing coaching staff and I can just coach up his other problems, but you can't teach speed!". Etc and so forth.
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure."
- Sun Tzu, 469 BCE


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bronco Billy, Google [Bot] and 37 guests