Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby ninotoreS » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:29 am

I think I posted earlier that there were rumblings almost from day one that Saunders wasn't Coleman's biggest fan.
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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby Ice » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:07 pm

Servo wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:04 am
Ice wrote: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:47 pmSashi Brown may have been the worst GM ever.
I know Sashi is being completely thrown under the bus but he's not the one developing players, his job was to find players that could be successful at the NFL level with the right coaching. How many players come into the NFL and can be superstars overnight? It's such a big leap from college.

All of this blowing up in Cleveland's face has just as much to do with Hue Jackson either being a really $hitty head coach or actively trying not to develop players....which would still lead him to be a $hit head coach. Maybe that falls on Sashi for not canning Jackson when he had the chance?

The point I love seeing on Twitter is how the Browns failed again because they chose Coleman over Michael Thomas (just like the 4 other teams who did as well MIN/HOU/WAS/NYG)...and we've seen Thomas ascend to being one of the best WR in the game today while. It's a chicken vs. the egg argument, has Thomas been made better by having one of the most prolific and greatest QBs ever throwing him the ball versus does Brees really help Thomas beat press coverage/make plays, etc.
I agree the players develop with the coaches but based on the horrid track record one has to wonder what real research even went into some of those selections. It's almost like they saw stats and thought Wow that guy can play or fell in love with one aspect of strength like Coleman's 40 time.

One has to wonder if the coaches and GM even talked about needs. I think Coleman is the only first round pick from that class now on a different team. That is an epic fail.

On a positive note, I actually think the Browns are going to be one of the most improved teams in the league this season. They do have better players and I actually really like their moves this off season. Not a Jackson either but then again Sashi was in the middle of that. Ownership has been problem but hiring a real GM with a long record of success with GB and KC will help.

Must be really tough being a Brown's fan. Oh well, Hope springs eternal! :D

Getting Landry was a huge get for this club. He is an outstanding player that looks QB proof.
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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby Huh » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:32 pm

Calloway busted for the weed. Browns might have jumped the gun on this trade.

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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby TheRookiePro » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:36 pm

TheRookiePro wrote: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:46 am Well atleast episode 2 of Hardknocks will be interesting. Wonder if Coleman wanted to call his grandma after he heard he was traded.
Hopefullly episode 3 will have the return of Josh Gordon.
Damn episode 2 will be backed. Per Roto:
Browns fourth-round WR Antonio Callaway was cited for marijuana possession on Sunday morning.
Callaway was also driving with a suspended license when he was stopped at 2:59 AM. The amount of marijuana in Callaway's possesion was a "minor misdemeanor" under Ohio law, but that's not how the NFL is going to view it. Callaway failed a drug test at the Combine, and was only available in the fourth round thanks to a host of off-the-field issues at Florida. He's facing a league-mandated suspension. Callaway was also stopped the same day the Browns traded Corey Coleman. It's unclear if the Browns knew of Callaway's situation when they flipped Coleman to the Bills. The Browns' once-intriguing skill corps is rapidly thinning.
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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby btv802 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:20 pm

It's all Corey Coleman's fault guys :thumbup:
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RB: M. Gordon, D. Cook, T. Coleman, J. McKinnon, I. Smith
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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby ArrylT » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:13 pm

Valhalla wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:45 am The first link isn't working for me.
It is basically a similar article to the 2nd, but with more focus on Kizer (who apologizes for his behaviour) and mentioned a few more names of players who were partying with Kizer and Coleman.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby ericanadian » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:57 pm

The Sashi/Jackson argument looked a lot to me like two guys trying to get each other fired. Sashi kept bringing in players that made no sense with where the team was (Giving Kizer to a coach on the hot seat) and the system Jackson ran (Kessler never had the arm necessary) while Jackson seemed in constant panic mode and made almost no effort to develop players (giving Brock Lobster significant snaps in pre-season)

I'm not sure either of them are irredeemable in their respective positions, but they never should've been paired up to work together.
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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby Cameron Giles » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:25 pm

btv802 wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:39 am Oh man if Corey Coleman started his career in a Drew Brees led offense...

Image
If Coleman doesn't even know where to lineup in a Hue Jackson offense, he would've probably failed harder in New Orleans.

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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby Valhalla » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:08 pm

Ice wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:07 pm ...
On a positive note, I actually think the Browns are going to be one of the most improved teams in the league this season. They do have better players and I actually really like their moves this off season. Not a Jackson either but then again Sashi was in the middle of that. Ownership has been problem but hiring a real GM with a long record of success with GB and KC will help.
...
A lot of people like the moves that Dorsey has made this year. I'm not a huge fan of all of it, but it's been decent overall. My favorite thing his group has done so far is NOT fall into the mistake of Josh Allen, and instead chose to draft Baker Mayfield (easily the correct choice IMO).

You have to remember, though, that Dorsey's team has been able to do everything they have done BECAUSE OF NOT ONLY THE PICKS, BUT THE WONDERFUL CAP SITUATION that Sashi had set up in his couple years. Sashi wasn't really given a chance to work with what he had created from a dumpster fire of a situation in under two years as GM, so I'm not sure how he can be labeled as "one of the worst GMs of all time." He set the team up for success, and was then booted before he could move his pieces/spend his cap/make another go (or maybe his first go?) at a coaching hire. It's on him for hiring (and not firing) Hue Jackson, but with how he was forced out in favor of Hue by the ownership...I am wondering if Hue was FORCED on Sashi by the ownership. Hue was, after all, a VERY hyped up (by the mass media) coach. He was the NFL coaching darling, like Jason Garrett used to be. The media LOVED Hue Jackson, and maybe the Browns ownership insisted on having him. Speculation, but maybe that's NOT on Sashi, and is another ownership problem.

Anyways...I sort of have the opposite stance/view that you do, Ice. You believe Sashi Brown may have been the worst GM of all time. I believe it's impossible to say that when the rug was pulled before he could use any of the great situation he had set up. You point to the lack of success of all the Browns first round picks and how none are on the team. Sashi wasn't the man in charge until 2016. His picks are Coleman (gone by a bad trade IMO), David Njoku (jury still out), Myles Garrett (obvious choice), and Jabrill Peppers (currently listed as their starter). He didn't pick as many guys as he COULD have (given his wealth of assets), because he was creating a great cap and future pick situation for the team (which Dorsey then benefited from). At a MINIMUM, Sashi Brown knew how to manage a team's cap situation. Care to guess why Dorsey wore out his welcome as GM for the Chiefs? I'm not going to look into the history of it all for this post, but I remember reading it was because he had put his teams into bad cap situations severely limiting the team's options. What is he immediately doing with the Browns? Some would say he's overpaying guys and throwing assets away for throw-away picks. In short, NOT leaving the team in any long-term good situation (other than drafting Mayfield, the obvious choice).
So he was successful with the Chiefs when the team already had a decent defense, Jamaal Charles, and Andy Reid's always decent offense. Congrats, I guess? I'm not sure why he's credited for the Packers' success in drafting Rodgers. He was involved in the decision to draft Rodgers, but wasn't the man in charge. Rodgers went, what, 24? if I remember right. Favre was talking retirement, and Rodgers was pre-draft argued as a decent chance to go #1 (over Alex Smith). He was the OBVIOUS CHOICE, PLUMMETING ASSET of a stud QB prospect falling to a team with an old, talking retirement QB. How is nailing down Rodgers (at 24?) a great bit of scouting attributed to Dorsey? It's attributed to him...but I just don't get why, other than over-simplification of "Dorsey was in GB when Rodgers was drafted!"

But sure...One can argue that Sashi was the worst because the Browns were bad, and Dorsey is a good GM with a long history of success with the Packers and Chiefs. IMO, that's just a bit of a "glaze on the surface" type of view.

Damn I'm being controversial lately. Sorry about that, guys. I just think loving Dorsey and hating on Sashi is a bit too group-think. Group-think usually just looks at the surface, like immediate win-loss record of the GM. Immediate results are more on the coaches and the veteran players. The GM should be held accountable for LONG-TERM SUSTAINABILITY AND RELIABLE ASSET TURNOVER of a team. Dorsey (wrongly IMO) gets credit for the short-term success of a team he walks into...but he's actually NOT shown he's good at managing the cap/assets/picks, which is what sets up sustainability, the responsibility of a GM IMO.

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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby Valhalla » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:12 pm

ericanadian wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:57 pm The Sashi/Jackson argument looked a lot to me like two guys trying to get each other fired. Sashi kept bringing in players that made no sense with where the team was (Giving Kizer to a coach on the hot seat) and the system Jackson ran (Kessler never had the arm necessary) while Jackson seemed in constant panic mode and made almost no effort to develop players (giving Brock Lobster significant snaps in pre-season)

I'm not sure either of them are irredeemable in their respective positions, but they never should've been paired up to work together.
I was sure I read somewhere that Hue Jackson was the strong voice pushing for Kizer, wanting him for his offense. I might be wrong on that.

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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby btv802 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:16 pm

Valhalla wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:08 pmDamn I'm being controversial lately.
I have enjoyed your contributions to this thread.
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QB: R. Wilson, T. Brady, K. Cousins
RB: M. Gordon, D. Cook, T. Coleman, J. McKinnon, I. Smith
WR: B. Cooks, J. Jones, A.J. Green, S. Watkins, M. Williams, M. Valdes-Scantling, J. Ross, M. Lee, T. Taylor, P. Richardson
TE: T. Kelce, D. Njoku, J. Smith
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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby ericanadian » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:47 pm

Valhalla wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:12 pm
ericanadian wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:57 pm The Sashi/Jackson argument looked a lot to me like two guys trying to get each other fired. Sashi kept bringing in players that made no sense with where the team was (Giving Kizer to a coach on the hot seat) and the system Jackson ran (Kessler never had the arm necessary) while Jackson seemed in constant panic mode and made almost no effort to develop players (giving Brock Lobster significant snaps in pre-season)

I'm not sure either of them are irredeemable in their respective positions, but they never should've been paired up to work together.
I was sure I read somewhere that Hue Jackson was the strong voice pushing for Kizer, wanting him for his offense. I might be wrong on that.
Probably accurate, but giving a developmental QB to Jackson a developmental QB when he was desperate to win a game was probably a mistake Sashi should've seen coming. That said, after doing some review for the second part of this, and taking into account the failed deal to bring in Dalton, it's entirely possible that Jackson was involved in bringing in certain guys via the draft as well.

Also, with regards to Jackon being a Sashi hire, the Browns own website talks about the Haslams naming him head coach. I've checked a few other team sites and that is not normal. I also went back and watched the opening press conference and it really just cemented the feeling for me that it was Haslam that brought him in moreso than Brown.
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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby Valhalla » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:43 pm

ericanadian wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:47 pm I also went back and watched the opening press conference and it really just cemented the feeling for me that it was Haslam that brought him in moreso than Brown.
That sounds right to me and it’s unfortunate for Browns fans that the ownership believes so strongly in Hue. Unfortunate for Sashi Brown that his reputation is heavily tarnished now when the ownership never gave him true GM authority. With how heavily the owners apparently favored Hue over Sashi (as they chose the 1-31 coach with poor control of his team’s antics), it wouldn’t surprise me if Hue has had a heavy say in player acquisition as well. The obvious in-house fighting of authority there was apparent with the trade for McCarron reported and then no paperwork filed. Speculating that maybe there was already a lot of tension between the two, and the McCarron fiasco drove the dispute to ownership level, with Hue “suggesting” Sashi goes.

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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby Ice » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:59 pm

Post was too long to quote but I enjoyed reading it. Not too sure about the group think thing but when a GM looks to have missed on 19 or so picks in 2 years it is epic bad.

I agree the coach and GM were mismatched and that the ownership is bad.

What I would disagree with is making excuses for Sashi as why he sucked and then diminishing Dorsey.

A few of Dorsey's more recent selections for the Chiefs. He may have wore out his welcome as you say but looking at a few names below and its easy to see he knows football and that will help the Browns.

Kelce, Fisher, Marcus Peters, Fulton, Morse, TyreeK Hill, Kareem Hunt. Patrick Mahomes. I could list more O lineman and DB's but overall his track record is pretty good.

Too early to know on Mahomes but I think he will be a stud in a few years.... ( Bias alert, I am a Tech Graduate so really hope Mahomes is as advertised)
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Re: Corey Coleman traded to the Bills

Postby Valhalla » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:52 am

Ice wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:59 pm ...when a GM looks to have missed on 19 or so picks in 2 years it is epic bad.
It's pretty unfair to call a guy a miss after his rookie or second year in the league...especially when some of those guys were on IR. Let's take a closer look.

Corey Coleman - injured twice and played with wildly inaccurate QBs in a bad system. Traded too soon or at least for far too little IMO and it's too early to write him off
Emmanuel Ogbah - a damn good DE, underrated
Carl Nassib - a good rotational DE. Solid for a 3rd rounder, has flashed
Shon Coleman - has been a useful player
Cody Kessler - whether it's Brown or Jackson making the pick (I think Jackson held sway on QB selections), taking a chance on a signal caller in the 3rd and missing is nothing to scoff at. Most miss there, but the occasional hits can make it worth taking the shot
Joe Schobert - for a 4th? Yep, good pick. Solid LB
Derrick Kindred - has been decent for a 4th round safety
Rashard Higgins - a useful WR for a 5th rounder
Myles Garrett - yep I'm on board with this
Jabrill Peppers - I think Brown reached here but Peppers is apparently getting his shot to start and I won't write a rookie off as a bust immediately like some glazed numbers do
David Njoku - elite metrics but bad hands TE, I think it was a reach but he could prove me wrong
Larry Ogunjobi - solid DT for a 3rd rounder
Howard Wilson - The guy was on IR all season...can we call him a bust when he's never played yet?
Roderick Johnson - a developmental prototype size OT drafted in the 5th, never played a snap due to going on IR, Dorsey cut him early in the off-season and the Texans picked him up the very next day. Another one of those guys that I scratch my head over wondering how someone can say "yep, chalk up another bust in the Sashi's busts column." The guy was supposed to be developmental (why else does a prototypical size OT go in the 5th) and was on IR all season! Anyways...next!
Caleb Brantley - looks like he'll be a useful rotational type of DT, had in the 6th round
Seth Devalve - will work as a rotational TE, maybe more if Njoku pisses Hue off too much with drops
There's 7 names I didn't mention because I know nothing much about them (other than hearing Ricardo Louis hype last offseason). They will likely not do a lot in the NFL, but as I've said, it's simply unfair and too early to write any of these guys off 1-2 years into their careers.

So...how bad was Sashi Brown's draft bust rate, really? I HIGHLY doubt we'll look back in 5 years and see 19 "missed" picks, since I don't even see close to 19 missed picks right now. Well...that's not exactly true. The media will see it, because they've already ingrained the story in their minds and a confirmation bias will write their future stories on Sashi Brown's Browns legacy. I doubt I will see it that way, though.

Oh, one more point about the number of missed picks by Sashi Brown...that number will definitely be higher now that the guy that believed in their talent is gone and the new GM is vocally dismissing those players as "not real players." You think those guys are going to get a fair shot to make it in the league? Not really. Hence, a higher bust rate than there would have been if the Browns kept Brown.
Ice wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:59 pm I agree the coach and GM were mismatched and that the ownership is bad.
Yep. Check this article out.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... te-workout
“In a recent meeting that included a number of team executives, Cleveland Browns coach Hue Jackson explained with wide eyes to those in attendance, including owner Jimmy Haslam and his wife, what he saw during a private workout from Robert Griffin III last week.
Jackson explained how, at one point when Griffin rolled out in a full sprint to throw a pass, "it felt like the Earth moved beneath my feet," according to team sources. He told them how Griffin's accuracy in passing drills was "freakish." It was surreal and special. It was everything you remember from 2012 -- and everything you have forgotten since.
And while the Browns owner by no means calls the shots on roster decisions in Cleveland (executive vice president Sashi Brown has that power), it is widely understood within the organization that Jackson understands quarterbacks as well as anyone. So Haslam looked toward the execs and spoke three definitive words: “Go get him,” Haslam told the group, setting off a series of negotiations that would lead to Griffin signing a two-year, $15 million with the Browns...
The Browns also know how Jackson feels about Griffin, and they fully recognize Jackson sees a player who he expects to become the starter for this team in 2016. Is he a bridge to a younger player? You could assume that. But Jackson views this differently, according to a source close to the coach. He has more optimism than that."


Yikes...
All the Wentz lovers jump on the opportunity to blame Sashi Brown for passing on Wentz...but Hue seems to have a LOT of pull with Haslam (for some reason). Oh yeah, I remember. It's because Hue Jackson has (or had, anyways) that renowned reputation of "quarterback whisperer." :lol: I'm so scared he's going to somehow ruin Mayfield. :(
Really, who do you think got to call the shots on which QBs were drafted? Hue says he loves RG3 and thinks he can be the future, and Haslam says "Go get him." Where's the conversation with Sashi Brown?!? Who do you honestly believe had more say in pulling in Kessler and Kizer with the picks spent on them? Haslam has a history of not allowing his GMs to select their own coaches. Go check it out. By not allowing the GM to make this clearly VERY important decision, he clearly doesn't allow the GM full authority on personnel moves (and personally ordered a personnel move here on Hue's brilliant intuition salivating over RG3 in shorts), but the GM DOES conveniently get all the blame for those decisions. That's a big Haslam problem. I'd say it's likely Hue talking Haslam into RG3 is what the Wentz lovers SHOULD be upset about...but Sashi will continue to get the blame from the masses because the masses are usually lacking for information.
Ice wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:59 pm What I would disagree with is making excuses for Sashi as why he sucked and then diminishing Dorsey.
I'm not making excuses for why he sucked. I'm clarifying why I believe he DIDN'T suck, or at least why it was too early to tell.
Ice wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:59 pm A few of Dorsey's more recent selections for the Chiefs. He may have wore out his welcome as you say but looking at a few names below and its easy to see he knows football and that will help the Browns.

Kelce, Fisher, Marcus Peters, Fulton, Morse, TyreeK Hill, Kareem Hunt. Patrick Mahomes. I could list more O lineman and DB's but overall his track record is pretty good.

Too early to know on Mahomes but I think he will be a stud in a few years.... ( Bias alert, I am a Tech Graduate so really hope Mahomes is as advertised)
If you use the strict 1-2 year cut-off put on Sashi Browns crop...as half of his crop had two years and half had one year...
Kelce was nothing special AT ALL one year in. In fact, he missed his entire rookie year with a back fracture and people were really questioning the pick. It'd be chalked up as a bust on the Sashi 1-2 year leeway rule if he only got the rookie year to prove himself like many of these guys get in the tally. Kelce did show up in his second year, and he WAS a solid pick, so credit to Dorsey, but I hope you get my point here about how unjustified it is already writing off these 2016 and 2017 Browns acquisitions.
Fisher was a pretty hyped tackle and the first overall pick. Not a given for OL to hit in the first round by any means, but when you're taking a guy first overall, you expect a stud and anything less is not proper allocation of resources. Fisher was rated the 70th best tackle by ProFootballFocus (need 25% + of offensive snaps to qualify) his rookie year. I don't know what his grade was his second year and won't pay to find out. He would have been classified as a colossal bust, especially for the first overall pick, if you cut off evaluation so quickly like people are doing for the picks during Sashi Brown's years. Most recently, Fisher was graded as the #36 tackle in the league...so congratulations are in order to Dorsey for getting this tackle at the #1 pick? He's starting material, sure, but it wasn't the good, solid acquisition (for the price) that you implied.
Mitch Morse was a 2nd round center. I'm not sure how he started his career, but he's below average according to PFF, so that sounds like an over-spend.
Marcus Peters is a stud (but apparently emotionally unstable? if that's true) CB that was seen by many as the best CB in class, and Dorsey paid accordingly for it with his first round selection. Peters was easy enough bit of scouting for many fans to be hoping for him, but landing a stud CB in round 1 is a success, nonetheless.
Fulton is another below average center, but drafted in the 6th round so a solid pick there.
Tyreek is a great 5th round selection. Dorsey took a gamble on the troubled athletic phenom and no trouble arose. Yet...if you want to apply a cutoff of evaluation on so many of the Browns players after just their rookie years, consider doing that for Tyreek. Most people viewed him as an effective gadget player that came on hot at the end of the year. His below 10 ypr on 61 catches was unacceptably low (especially for a speed freak) so a lot of people were labeling him as "effective gadget".
Kareem Hunt is a good, effective RB for the NFL, but IMO is massively over-hyped. Go watch the film of his huge games early in the season and don't watch him (because it's too easy to be fooled that way as you watch the yards tick by), but watch his OL and the holes they are creating for him. If you don't want to do this, just go take a look at the MASSIVE yards blocked before contact in those games. Nonetheless, he's a good RB and is worth the 3rd round pick spent to get him. Good pick by Dorsey there.
Patrick Mahomes I like...but it's too early to give Dorsey credit for this because we simply don't know yet. Also, I feel like it's unfair to give Dorsey credit for this and at the same time criticize Brown for not finding his QB when he was set up to draft Mayfield himself (as he likely would have).

So in summary...of the solid contributor picks that you have listed of Dorsey's selections, if you were to use the 1-2 year cutoff on these guys, it COULD look like:
Colossal bust at #1 overall
Stud CB in the first round
Overspending of a second round pick
Wasted 3rd round on injured TE
3rd round good RB
Solid gadget WR in 5th round
That's the danger of casting judgment on players after 1-2 years.

Oh...and Dorsey has had his share of busts for picks. Here's who he's selected as GM: Eric Fisher (1st overall!), Travis Kelce, Knile Davis, Nico Johnson, Sanders Commings, Eric Kush, Braden Wilson, Mike Catapano, Dee Ford, Phillip Gaines, De'Anthony Thomas, Aaron Murray, Zach Fulton, Laurent Duvernay-Tardif, Marcus Peters, Mitch Morse, Chris Conley, Steven Nelson, Ramik Wilson, D.J. Alexander, James O'Shaughnessy, Rakeem Nunez-Roches, Da'Ron Brown, Chris Jones, KeiVarae Russell, Parker Ehringer, Eric Murray, Demarcus Robinson, Kevin Hogan, Tyreek Hill, D.J. White, Dadi Nicolas, Patrick Mahomes, Tanoh Kpassagnon, Kareem Hunt, Jehu Chesson, Ukeme Eligwe, Leon McQuay.
As you can see, that's a LOT of guys selected that don't really make a name for themselves. It's the nature of the NFL draft. There are a lot of guys that don't stick around or do a lot in the NFL. Oh, and these aren't all just a bunch of late picks. There are PLENTY of early round picks in there.

I didn't dislike Dorsey before this stuff. I felt nothing for or against him. I knew he was let go from the Chiefs due to cap management issues, but it didn't evoke any emotion in me one way or the other. What got to me was his comments/dismissal of the talent on roster, and the dismissal/disrespect of the GM before him.
Stuff like this:
"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players," he said. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players."

OK John...looking at YOUR above record of drafting, in FIVE YEARS of drafting, you got, in total: a great TE, a great but troubled WR, a great CB that everyone knew about, a pretty damn good RB that aren't THAT hard to come by, I think a future pretty good QB, aaaaaannnd a whole lot of other pieces that were either drafted/paid far too highly for what they provide (like Fisher or Morse) or pieces that gave you little benefit. Way to ride the Chiefs already rostered talent when you arrived, drive them into cap hell, and have the dumb media think you're great because the team was winning during those years running largely on players you didn't provide. Be sure to thank Andy Reid for your first AND second opportunities at GM.

Sorry. Felt I had to rant there. I hate that Dorsey quote so much. Dorsey also apparently texted Maclin that he was released. Classy, classy guy.

Oh, we should also be looking at Sashi Brown's player acquisitions and other GM duties he had done for the Browns in any fair evaluation of the talent provided to his poor, deprived head coach, right? Well there's this quick little well done summary:
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index. ... own_m.html


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