Ronnie Jones

[Vcize]

True Ice. Very true. I had Sony a touch above Rojo as well. I just despise Belichick's approach and I think it's been since L.Maroney that we've seen some semblance of a 3 down rb. Argh. Part of me doesn't see that changing. I do own Sony in 2 leagues... fingers crossed.

DD. Another Good example with M.Gordon. I think it's safe to say he is "much better now"... just my opinion of course as he seemingly has top 10 ish overall dynasty value in the leagues I've inquired about attaining him. I know folks discuss his "efficiency" or lack there of. But, watching him play - I see a grinder and a good all around 3 down rb with a nose for the end-zone.

I think it is a common misconception that all rb enter the league and are NFL / Pro ready because if they know how to run it is just about hitting a hole and running. They just aren't and it just isn't quite that simple. We are talking about humans after all.

The most obvious example is Le"Veon Bell, who was a 3.5ypc plodder as a rookie that looked like he was about to lose his job to LaGarrette Blount heading into year two.

Obviously he is the exception and not the rule. Thomas Jones is another guy that falls into this category. People were bailing on LeSean McCoy after his rookie year too.

I'm sure we could find lots of other guys that had a poor 1st offseason and/or preseason which is all we've seen of RoJo so far, but that ends up being such a minor point in the grand scheme of things that we don't even remember that those guys struggled at that stage anymore. Arian Foster averaged 2ypc in his first preseason. Mark Ingram the same.

It's certainly not ideal, but it's not necessarily an early death knell.

[spotxc]

I only fault dynasty owners for three things, regarding Jones.

1.) Pretending one doesn't regret spending a rookie-draft 1st round pick on Jones.

Regardless of the rational argument to not give up on Jones yet (which I agree with), it's foolish to spend more than a rookie-draft 2nd round pick on him now. And not an early-2nd, either.

2.) Pretending his preseason performance wasn't a disaster. Please try to find for me any comparable precedent for an RB picked as highly as #38 overall going up against strictly 2nd and 3rd team defenses in his first preseason and averaging less than a yard per carry on nearly 30 attempts.

Jones is BEHIND QUIZZ RODGERS now on his depth-chart. That hasn't happened because of a "meaningless preseason [in] which he didnt even look that bad in, that line was the problem". Please. Be real.

3.) Pretending Jones' USC tape in '17 wasn't excellent. Anyone claiming otherwise a.) is a faker only pretending they tape study b.) doesn't know football well enough to know what good tape looks like. Jones had PFF's best grade nationally, and a multitude of professional, published film grinders lavished Jones' tape with praise.

We knew he needs to add at least a bit more weight to be a workhorse at this level, and we knew prior optimism about his pass-catching ability was theory rather than fact. Aside from these caveats, Jones was very, very good at USC last year. And unlike most of the other top RB prospects in this class, he did it with an O-line lacking an elite Adjusted Line Yards rank.

u want to be right so bad, but too early there..proved wrong on #2 already and yes I don't base my dynasty analysis of a rookie based on 3 preseason games lol, u enjoy that and maybe try dfs

Im not drafting 1.04,1.05, but like someone else mentioned Im buying at a bargain of late 1st, or 2nd(s), especially if they're next yr..for a guy who was a early-mid first pick who panicked owners want to get out of before they hit regular football...im a taker if I believe somewhat in the guy..not even that high on him, but the nonsense talk from non-owners who probably want him for a 2nd, but can't get him is out of whack this early

[Bot101]

I only fault dynasty owners for three things, regarding Jones.

1.) Pretending one doesn't regret spending a rookie-draft 1st round pick on Jones.

Regardless of the rational argument to not give up on Jones yet (which I agree with), it's foolish to spend more than a rookie-draft 2nd round pick on him now. And not an early-2nd, either.

2.) Pretending his preseason performance wasn't a disaster. Please try to find for me any comparable precedent for an RB picked as highly as #38 overall going up against strictly 2nd and 3rd team defenses in his first preseason and averaging less than a yard per carry on nearly 30 attempts.

Jones is BEHIND QUIZZ RODGERS now on his depth-chart. That hasn't happened because of a "meaningless preseason [in] which he didnt even look that bad in, that line was the problem". Please. Be real.

3.) Pretending Jones' USC tape in '17 wasn't excellent. Anyone claiming otherwise a.) is a faker only pretending they tape study b.) doesn't know football well enough to know what good tape looks like. Jones had PFF's best grade nationally, and a multitude of professional, published film grinders lavished Jones' tape with praise.

We knew he needs to add at least a bit more weight to be a workhorse at this level, and we knew prior optimism about his pass-catching ability was theory rather than fact. Aside from these caveats, Jones was very, very good at USC last year. And unlike most of the other top RB prospects in this class, he did it with an O-line lacking an elite Adjusted Line Yards rank.

I dont care what "film grinders" lavished Jones tape with praise. His tape was not excellent except for some highlight runs. PFF also graded Penny with having a much better grade than Barkley of YPC when contacted at or behind the LoS. That "grade" can easily be broken in half when you watch who the both of them played against, and also when you watch what Barkley had blocking for him. So PFF's wonderful "grades" can be taken with a grain of salt because they completely lack context.

There were also a sizable amount of dynasty personalities saying to stay the heck away from this guy.

[MEuRaH]

A dynasty vs a redraft mentality. It seems some are confused as to where they are. The coming to conclusions on 21 year old kids seems misplaced.

It drives me absolutely crazy. Go play redraft if that is your angle. In dynasty formats, simply put, patience, and a little dash of understanding is required. To say that Rojo is a bust and be anywhere near confident as some here sound is nothing other than over simplified and premature labeling. Sure, some here are biased and hope he does well. I myself am not at all impressed with what I have read and have seen and yes, he absolutely could be a bust. BUT..... There is context to an extent that must be taken into consideration. I can't help but wonder why that thought process eludes people so often on a dynasty forum.

I've been calling him a bust since March.

Oh, he's 21? Hmm. I've decided that age doesn't dictate talent. Still a bust.

Wasn't Zeke 20 when he started in the NFL?

And what is this "thought process" you talk about that nobody seems to be using? I've explained in rather lengthy detail probably 10 times on these forums why he was going to tank well before he was even drafted. I said long ago that the time to sell high was before preseason games exposed all of his weaknesses, and now he's sitting not 1st, not 2nd, but THIRD on the depth chart of a team devoid of running back talent.

The fact that he's been so poor doesn't put the onus on me to explain why he's a bust, but rather puts the onus on YOU to explain to me why he's not a bust. Here's your argument so far: "He's young".

Dude is fast when he has the ability to run in a straight line, but that doesn't work in the NFL when the average run is 3-4 yards, not 6-7 like in college. Ability & Vision is far more important, and RJ3 has proven to me he has neither of these things. I've already pointed out several runs that were designed to be inside-out reads, and yet he takes off running to the sidelines right away, avoiding holes and blocking schemes. No thanks.

[saw061600]

I just grabbed him pick 23 (round 3, Team 1 sig 10 owners)in my league that refuses to draft earlier. He's just turned 21, plenty of time to turn it around and well worth the risk at that price.

[Phaded]

He has fallen to pick 23?
Wow.. That is nuts.

Honestly and as always, not specifically about Jones - this community is too quick to condemn or praise young players.

Is his start a concern for immediate production? Absolutely. But things can change pretty quickly in the NFL, for better or worse. He could be ready next year or it might be Barber / someone else who jumps him.

I still remember when Ameer Abdullah was the second coming of Barry Sanders due to preseason.

[maxhyde]

I've been calling him a bust since March.

Oh, he's 21? Hmm. I've decided that age doesn't dictate talent. Still a bust.

Calling it early I like the unabashed bias. You'll be right all the way until your wrong.

Anyway that's fine. Like someone mentioned Bell was a cheaper after his 1st year than he was as a rookie. I kinda thought he was a bit of a plodder too but still thought he was worth a buy on volume alone for a year or 2 so I ended up with a few shares. RB's don't have to be good...they need snaps/touches...lots of "not good RB" get touches more than we in the fantasy community think they should all the time. The NFL coaches and GM's aren't reading fantasy analysts takes on prospects. Pretty sure scouts have their reasons and GM's do too, so those are people getting paid alot more $$ to make football decisions than most fantasy analysts. Not saying they can't be wrong but if I have to pick one group, I will trust them over a few guys on some fantasy community forum that think he blatantly sucks and is a bust before the regular season of his rookie season. The NFL scouts/GMs have something riding on him and likely know their jobs could be linked to his success or lack thereof
Reality is a high 2nd round pick in the NFL will get multiple chances to fail and suck with the team that drafted him, then another chance or two with a couple other teams before falling out of the league...a la Bishop Sankey and a host of others. Fantasy is about playing the odds for me to a certain degree but you can bet 00 in roulette and win big every now and then too

[Jfever]

A dynasty vs a redraft mentality. It seems some are confused as to where they are. The coming to conclusions on 21 year old kids seems misplaced.

It drives me absolutely crazy. Go play redraft if that is your angle. In dynasty formats, simply put, patience, and a little dash of understanding is required. To say that Rojo is a bust and be anywhere near confident as some here sound is nothing other than over simplified and premature labeling. Sure, some here are biased and hope he does well. I myself am not at all impressed with what I have read and have seen and yes, he absolutely could be a bust. BUT..... There is context to an extent that must be taken into consideration. I can't help but wonder why that thought process eludes people so often on a dynasty forum.

I've been calling him a bust since March.

Oh, he's 21? Hmm. I've decided that age doesn't dictate talent. Still a bust.

Wasn't Zeke 20 when he started in the NFL?

And what is this "thought process" you talk about that nobody seems to be using? I've explained in rather lengthy detail probably 10 times on these forums why he was going to tank well before he was even drafted. I said long ago that the time to sell high was before preseason games exposed all of his weaknesses, and now he's sitting not 1st, not 2nd, but THIRD on the depth chart of a team devoid of running back talent.

The fact that he's been so poor doesn't put the onus on me to explain why he's a bust, but rather puts the onus on YOU to explain to me why he's not a bust. Here's your argument so far: "He's young".

Dude is fast when he has the ability to run in a straight line, but that doesn't work in the NFL when the average run is 3-4 yards, not 6-7 like in college. Ability & Vision is far more important, and RJ3 has proven to me he has neither of these things. I've already pointed out several runs that were designed to be inside-out reads, and yet he takes off running to the sidelines right away, avoiding holes and blocking schemes. No thanks.

No offense, but, your level of certainty is amusing and alarming at the same time.

I agree that age does not dictate talent. It certainly does carry some weight in the NFL, with his position of play, and in our dynasty approach to this hobby, and also in the development of mind and body in the male athletes body. just an FYI, age and stating the age of a player is incredibly valid and it must be weighed and considered when thinking about potential growth and performance of mind and body. Think of it as a bell shaped curve. You perhaps don't or didn't understand why I was bringing up his age. Now you do. Your simplified counter example of Zeke is, well, simple. You ignore very relevant variables to suit your stance. This approach lessens the value of your conclusion.

Thanks for chiming in and sharing your preconceptions though.

[spotxc]

Agreed with level of certainity aspect.. Crazy if you ask me...how u can be definite like u have 9 years of proof that a guy is a bust before he even steps on the field for his first regular nfl season

[DJB]

Agreed with level of certainity aspect.. Crazy if you ask me...how u can be definite like u have 9 years of proof that a guy is a bust before he even steps on the field for his first regular nfl season

Bingo. Way too early to talk about bust territory

[ericanadian]

Agreed with level of certainity aspect.. Crazy if you ask me...how u can be definite like u have 9 years of proof that a guy is a bust before he even steps on the field for his first regular nfl season

If you have a running back that runs a 5.1 40, and no running back has ever been successful running a 5.1 40, should you not have some level of confidence in calling that guy an almost certain bust? I'm not saying that I have data this damning against Jones, but this whole argument that you can't write a guy off before he plays in the NFL under any circumstances is absurd.

[Jfever]

Silly extreme. Over simplification. Plus, E.Smith was closer to 5.1 than 4.4. So, there is that. Fair to say most scouts, NCAA recruits, NFL scouts, coaches, coordinators, etc have done extensively more research and are WAY more invested financially as well as with their careers, than any and all hard core dynasty football enthusiasts.

It seems to me that some try to be right so early that they create their own narrative based off of a small sample size, to suit their early diagnosis. What I'm simply trying to stress is that in today's world in dynasty, patience seems to be going out of style. Rojo could fail, or maybe not. It's simply too early to dig heals in and write him off.

[spotxc]

Agreed with level of certainity aspect.. Crazy if you ask me...how u can be definite like u have 9 years of proof that a guy is a bust before he even steps on the field for his first regular nfl season

If you have a running back that runs a 5.1 40, and no running back has ever been successful running a 5.1 40, should you not have some level of confidence in calling that guy an almost certain bust? I'm not saying that I have data this damning against Jones, but this whole argument that you can't write a guy off before he plays in the NFL under any circumstances is absurd.

Don't know what you're getting at.. He was drafted in the top of the 2nd round so obviously the actual nfl feels like he has value as a rb and you're so sure he doesn't before he plays lol..the level of ego to make these claims with confidence is baffling. Lets just say I wouldn't trust or put much belief in anything you say with debating stances like that

[Gtdano_14]

It seems to me that some try to be right so early that they create their own narrative based off of a small sample size, to suit their early diagnosis.

I think we are all guilty of that. I saw someone in this thread say RoJo flashed some receiving chops in the preseason... 2 drops. 1 Catch...

[Rosenbluu]

Silly extreme. Over simplification. Plus, E.Smith was closer to 5.1 than 4.4. So, there is that. Fair to say most scouts, NCAA recruits, NFL scouts, coaches, coordinators, etc have done extensively more research and are WAY more invested financially as well as with their careers, than any and all hard core dynasty football enthusiasts.

It seems to me that some try to be right so early that they create their own narrative based off of a small sample size, to suit their early diagnosis. What I'm simply trying to stress is that in today's world in dynasty, patience seems to be going out of style. Rojo could fail, or maybe not. It's simply too early to dig heals in and write him off.

Breach. Still wondering why this forum is at the top... let’s all just let it be for a few months and revisit?